Know your enemy-ephesians 5:11

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I watched the first two parts, then ran out of time. I look forward to seeing the rest over the next couple of weeks.

April 17, 2013 at 1:29 am#342001

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I've made it as far as segment 15. So far, this has been a very enlightening presentation.

Thanks to John 3:3 for posting it.

April 17, 2013 at 4:18 am#342016

Participant

I'm up to 61, I agree it has been a very good presentation. I think it would have been better if it was balanced more with what God has done… just my opinion.

Thanks John 3:3 – Wm

April 18, 2013 at 1:53 am#342090

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Hi Wm,

Watch the first minute and 45 seconds of segment 12 again.

I agree with this guy's belief that Satan delegated the position of gods over various nations to his spirit underlings.

But I believe it was Jehovah Himself who originally gave all the kingdoms of the world to Satan in the first place – to rule as he saw fit. (Luke 4:6) I don't think Satan was lying when he said he could give those kingdoms to whoever he wanted. And I believe he did indeed give those kingdoms to his spirit followers. (Think “Prince of Persia” and “the gods of Egypt”.)

I believe Psalm 82 tells the story of how Jehovah finally stepped in and called these gods to task for the crappy job they had been doing.

So in short, I truly believe those other nations were worshipping true, living beings, who are rightly called “gods”, because they are powerful spirit beings. (Lev 17:7, Deut 32:17, Psalm 106:37, Rev 9:20)

And in Ps 82, God is telling them that even though He Himself allowed them to set themselves up as gods, they would eventually die like men – because of the way they “defended the unjust and showed partiality to the wicked”. (Ps 82:2)

I think that's why God eventually picked Abraham, and decided to make a nation of His own in the midst of all these other nations that Satan and his spirit followers had perverted. Perhaps to demonstrate how a god SHOULD treat the people he is ruling over?

I also believe that when God “punished” the gods of Egypt along with Pharaoh, the leaders, and the people, he was truly punishing these angels who set themselves up as gods of that nation. And this was the beginning of Jehovah showing His complete superiority over these other, lesser gods of these other nations. First Egypt, then all the gods of the land of Canaan.

Jehovah was making a name for Himself as the Most High God by kicking the butts of the lesser gods of these nations everywhere He led His people. Even those nations that worshipped one of these lesser gods witnessed how the God of the Israelites was more powerful than their own god.

Any thoughts?

April 18, 2013 at 2:41 am#342095

Participant

Mike,
I agree with most everything except that “Jehovah Himself who originally gave all the kingdoms of the world to Satan”. While I do agree that control was somehow obtained by satan but I believe it came through man who we are told that dominion of the world was given to man from God.

My opinion – Wm

April 18, 2013 at 3:28 am#342099

Participant

I have understood that we have as enemy many things ,but all men are carrier of sin and so are enemy of Gods truth,so question ,is the men carrier that is the enemy or is it his sin

To be a carrier of God,s truth, then would it mean that we are NOT a carrier of sin??? Yes,

This is why all men are invited but few are going to God,

April 18, 2013 at 3:32 am#342101

Participant

Quote (seekingtruth @ April 18 2013,08:41)

My opinion – Wm

And what scripture would you use to counter this view

April 18, 2013 at 3:48 am#342105

Participant

Genesis 1:28
Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

April 18, 2013 at 3:52 am#342106

Participant

Quote (seekingtruth @ April 18 2013,09:48)

That was before Satan became to existence on earth ,what scripture would you use after their sin,???

April 18, 2013 at 7:47 am#342116

Participant

terraricca,
What scripture tells us that God took back the control He gave to man?

April 22, 2013 at 11:50 pm#342603

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Quote (seekingtruth @ April 17 2013,20:41)

My opinion – Wm

Hi Wm,

I hear what you're saying, and agree that God did give Adam and his descendants dominion over the animals that dwell on earth.

But is it possible that God also granted Satan and other angels dominion over man? Surely mankind is not capable of ruling over the spirit realms involved with the earth, right?

Consider this analogy:

God gave the anteater dominion over the ants.
He gave Adam dominion over the anteater.
He gave certain spirit sons of His dominion over the adams.
He gave Michael and other archangels dominion over those spirit sons.
He gave Jesus dominion over Michael and the archangels.
And He retained Sovereign, Supreme Dominion over them all.

This fits for many reasons:
1. The Prince of Persia
2. The gods of Egypt
3. Psalm 82 – where God is chastising those spirit sons for buggering things up
4. The fact that Satan couldn't have been lying when he told Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth were given to him – or it wouldn't have even been a temptation for Jesus to overcome
5. There is no evidence that Satan ever “obtained” dominion from man – ie: mankind STILL holds dominion over the animals of earth
6. Etc.

Wm, I think God appointed “guardian angels” over the nations of the earth – to help watch over man, lead them in the ways of God, and report back to God on occasion. (I believe the Book of Enoch calls these ones “watchers”.)

I think Satan fell in love with the power and prestige that position afforded him, and it went to his head. He liked the idea of being “worshipped”, and it wasn't hard for him to persuade those other “guardian angels” to follow suit – because THEY liked the idea of being worshipped too. (Think of a human being who has been put in a position of power and authority over others. Sometimes that position goes to the person's head, and he becomes “power-crazed” and starts ABUSING that power he was given.)

So then, instead of these “guardian angels” leading men in the ways of God, as was intended, they instead started perverting the minds of men by striving for more prestige for themselves, and eventually led men AWAY FROM the true God who created them, and AWAY FROM the true intentions God had when He placed these spirit sons over us in the first place.

Consider that some of God's FAITHFUL spirit sons were still being used all throughout scripture (from Gen to Rev) to do what God had intended these first ones to do in the first place.

What do you think?

April 23, 2013 at 1:17 am#342621

Wakeup

Participant

LUCIFER WAS IN CHARGE IN THE GARDEN:

Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; *THOU SEALEST UP THE SUM*, *FULL OF WISDOM, AND PERFECT IN BEAUTY*.

Ezekiel 28:13 *THOU HAST BEEN IN EDEN THE GARDEN OF GOD*; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:14 *THOU ART THE *ANOINTED* CHERUB THAT COVERETH*; *AND I HAVE SET THEE SO*: thou wast upon the *HOLY MOUNTAIN OF GOD*; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:15 *THOU WAS PERFECT IN THEY WAYS* *FROM THE DAY THAT THOU WAS CREATED*, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:17 THINE HEART WAS LIFTED UP BECAUSE OF THY BEAUTY, thou hast *CORRUPTED* thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Ezekiel 28:18 *THOU HAST DEFILED THY SANCTUARIES* by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and *I WILL BRING THEE TO ASHES* *UPON THE EARTH* in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Ezekiel 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, *AND NEVER SHALT THOU BE ANYMORE*.

wakeup.

April 28, 2013 at 6:39 pm#343259

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Wm?

May 1, 2013 at 2:36 am#343510

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 23 2013,07:50)

Quote (seekingtruth @ April 17 2013,20:41)

My opinion – Wm

Hi Wm,

I hear what you're saying, and agree that God did give Adam and his descendants dominion over the animals that dwell on earth.

But is it possible that God also granted Satan and other angels dominion over man? Surely mankind is not capable of ruling over the spirit realms involved with the earth, right?

Consider this analogy:

Consider that some of God's FAITHFUL spirit sons were still being used all throughout scripture (from Gen to Rev) to do what God had intended these first ones to do in the first place.

What do you think?

Sorry Mike haven't been feeling well lately.

I would agree it could be possible, but to me it seems more likely that God gave man authority (more than just dominion over animals, he was told to fill the earth and subdue it) 28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” I do agree satan ended up with at least the perception that authority was his to give, but I have trouble with the Father being complicit. I also agree that the watchers exceeded their mandate, is there a scripture that states their control over man?

May 1, 2013 at 6:15 am#343518

Wakeup

Participant

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, THE GREAT PRINCE **WHICH STANDED FOR THE CHILDREN OF THEY PEOPLE**: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 10:13 **BUT THE PRINCE OF THE KINGDOM OF PERCIA** withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

May 2, 2013 at 1:20 am#343587

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Thank you, Wakeup.

You can add to those this one:

2 Kings 3:27
Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The wrath against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land.

It seems likely to me that the king of Moab sacrificed his son to the Moabite god, Chemosh; and Chemosh brought wrath upon the victorious Israelites, sending them running for cover. (Surely Jehovah wouldn't have led them to victory, only to bring wrath down upon them after a pagan king sacrificed his son to a pagan god, right?)

You can also add any verse in the NT where a demon possessed a human being.

Wm, consider that Satan wasn't the evil being he is now when God first assigned him to look over the earth – and gave him all the kingdoms therein. He eventually became power hungry, and wanted to place himself on a pedestal next to, or higher than God's. But not at first. (Many people believe Ezekiel 28:11-19 refers to Satan before “wickedness was found in him”.)

And finally, you can't ignore the temptation of Jesus Christ. It would not have been a temptation for Satan to offer Jesus the kingdoms of the world unless they truly WERE his to give – like he said they were.

May 2, 2013 at 2:36 am#343603

Participant

Quote (seekingtruth @ April 18 2013,13:47)

terraricca,
What scripture tells us that God took back the control He gave to man?

Str

Ge 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Ge 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.

Ge 1:29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

Ge 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.

Ge 9:2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands.
Ge 9:3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
Ge 9:4 “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.
Ge 9:5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.
Ge 9:6 “Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man.

Ge 9:7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it.”
Ge 9:8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him:
Ge 9:9 “I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you
Ge 9:10 and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth.
Ge 9:11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”
Ge 9:12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come:
Ge 9:13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth.
Ge 9:14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds,
Ge 9:15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.
Ge 9:16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”
Ge 9:17 So God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth.”

Quote

Ex 23:20 “See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared.
Ex 23:21 Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.
Ex 23:22 If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and will oppose those who oppose you.

THE SOUL THAT SINS IS THE SOUL THAT DIES ,BUT THE PURPOSE OF GOD IS TO HAVE LIVING PEOPLE NOT DEAD ONES ,SO ALL THE CHANGES THAT WILL COME AND THE KINGDOM IS THE TRUE KINGDOM THE ONE THAT WILL STAY FOREVER AND SO PEOPLE IN IT WILL NOT DIES ,THIS HIS THE CHANGE SINS ADAM SIN.(GOD WILL NOT LET SINNERS RUN THE WORLD FOREVER BUT ONLY FOR A LIMITED TIME TO TAKE OUT THE GOOD AND THEN DESTROY THE BAD

May 7, 2013 at 3:05 am#343893