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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 14 2009,12:34) G,
So Satan discussed the situation with God in Ch 1-2 and God allowed him to test Job via a series of storms and disasters, incuding the seemingly accidental death of his family, and carnal warfare before launching an assault on his health...Keep me from hard testing..[mt6]
Job was essentially asserting that people only serve God because of what they get from God.
And since Job was the best of the best, the only one at the time “blameless and upright” …. this meant that if Satan could take everything from Job, and cause Job to turn away from God, then Satan would have proved his point.And if Satan succeeded, this meant that if Satan could prove that of Job, he could prove it of anyone. But we are told that Job did not sin with his lips in all of this….even though he wasn't exactly thinking correctly and had to be corrected by God, because he was focusing too much on his own righteousness, rather than vindicating God.
David………Scripture says GOD Brought all that on Job. Read the end of the book of JOB where it say that GOD brought all this evil on JOB> it was no challenge by a Being named SATAN , but simply and ADVERSARIAL Spirit (INTELLECT) in GOD'S reasonings. The Spirit (INTELLECT) ADVERSARY is one of the SPIRITS of GOD which HE CREATED. Like all SPIRITS are.
gene
Quote (Gene @ Dec. 14 2009,22:33) David………Scripture says GOD Brought all that on Job. Read the end of the book of JOB where it say that GOD brought all this evil on JOB> it was no challenge by a Being named SATAN , but simply and ADVERSARIAL Spirit (INTELLECT) in GOD'S reasonings. The Spirit (INTELLECT) ADVERSARY is one of the SPIRITS of GOD which HE CREATED. Like all SPIRITS are. gene
That is evil as in harmful as opposed to evil as in immoral.G,
The accuser of the brethren is allowed by God to test men.
God is in control of all things ultimately.Nick……….A accuser can be a false accuser or a true accuser, God himself has accused people many times. You are right GOD is in control of (ALL) thing and HIS purposes (WILL) Stand. despite what anyone says or does.
gene
Quote (Gene @ Dec. 15 2009,03:33) David………Scripture says GOD Brought all that on Job. Read the end of the book of JOB where it say that GOD brought all this evil on JOB> it was no challenge by a Being named SATAN , but simply and ADVERSARIAL Spirit (INTELLECT) in GOD'S reasonings. The Spirit (INTELLECT) ADVERSARY is one of the SPIRITS of GOD which HE CREATED. Like all SPIRITS are. gene
Gene,why not start “quoting” scripture, so we can believe you.
Quote Scripture says GOD Brought all that on Job. Read the end of the book of JOB where it say that GOD brought all this evil on JOB Gene, your words mean nothing. Use scripture. People will accept what you say if what you say comes from scripture.
JOB 1:11,12:
11 But, for a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch everything he has [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.” 12 Accordingly Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only against him himself do not thrust out your hand!”It was Satan that was Saying Jehovah should do this. But notice what Jehovah said to Satan: “Everything that he has is in YOUR hand. Only against him himself do not thrust out YOUR hand.”
God allowed this, granted Satan permission to do this, so to speak. But it was by means of SATAN'S “hand” that these things were done.JOB 2:5-7
For a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch as far as his bone and his flesh [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.”
6 Accordingly Jehovah said to Satan: “There he is in your hand! Only watch out for his soul itself!” 7 So Satan went out away from the person of Jehovah and struck Job with a malignant boil from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.Again, Satan telling Jehovah to harm Job. But then Jehovah saying to Satan that he is in YOUR (satan's) hand. In verse 7, we're told “Satan” “struck Job with” a boil.
So, Gene, does SCRIPTURE say God struck Job with the boil or does it say “Satan” (or if you prefer, “adversary”) did? What does it say?
It is true that God ALLOWED those things to happen to Job. But you cannot say that it was God that was CAUSING those things.
Gene, I am curious which verse you were referring to, near the end of Job?
Quote (david @ Dec. 13 2009,16:37) I think it is ridiculous to assert that Bildad, Eliphaz and Zophar were accurate in their accusations against Job. Eliphaz falsely accused Job of all sorts of crimes—extortion, withholding water and bread from the needy, and oppressing widows and orphans.—Job 22.
But Job 1:1 tells us that Job was “to be blameless and upright, and fearing God and turning aside from bad.”
Eliphaz paints righteous Job as an apostate, living in tents of bribery, a man full of deceit. (Job 15)
Was Job “blameless and upright” or was he the exact opposite?
The Bible calls those 3 “troublesome comforters” because they were not actually comforters at all.
“Who that is innocent has ever perished? And where have the upright ever been effaced?”–Eliphaz Hence, the conclusion he draws is that Job must have done something wicked to receive God’s punishment. (Job chaps 4, 5)
But that is not true. WE know that Job's experience was not punishment from God because Job was bad.
It was brought on by Satan BECAUSE JOB WAS GOOD!!!!!!And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad?”
Was Jehovah correct, or was Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar?
Now, I'm not saying Job acted correctly when all this came upon him. He needed to be corrected too, for sure.
But Job's failure to appreciate that the vindication of Jehovah God is far more important than the vindication of himself did not mean that Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar were correct in what they said.
Hey David…We agree on something. God explicitly said that Job's friends spoke the things that were not right and commanded each of them to offer a sacrifice (ch 42).This blows Nick's and Kerwin's views to hades.
thinker
Hi TT,
No speaker in scripture encompasses all truth in a single sentence.
Some are given to reveal aspects and as incomplete they can mislead.
But none of the speakers in Job spoke what is untrue in itself, just incomplete.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2009,06:37) Hi TT,
No speaker in scripture encompasses all truth in a single sentence.
Some are given to reveal aspects and as incomplete they can mislead.
But none of the speakers in Job spoke what is untrue in itself, just incomplete.
What scriptural support do you have for your highly imaginative theory?thinker
Hi TT,
Can you show me any sentence that encompasses all truth?
If one did God would not have spoken so many words through so many servants.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2009,07:27) Hi TT,
Can you show me any sentence that encompasses all truth?
If one did God would not have spoken so many words through so many servants.
I asked for scriptural support.thinker
Quote (Gene @ Dec. 15 2009,08:48) Nick……….A accuser can be a false accuser or a true accuser, God himself has accused people many times. You are right GOD is in control of (ALL) thing and HIS purposes (WILL) Stand. despite what anyone says or does. gene
Gene,
I agree with you on this one. The Hebrew “sawtawn” means “accuser” and may refer to Jehovah accusing His people or men accusing God's people. Satan and his angels were in chains during Job's plight. So the “accuser” could not have been satan himself. It was a human accuser that brought charges against Job.thinker
Hi TT,
Did a human adversary discuss Job with God in Jb 1-2?
Did human adversaries cause the wind and the storms in Jb1-2.Did they cause the loss of Job's health?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2009,09:31) Hi TT,
Did a human adversary discuss Job with God in Jb 1-2?
Did human adversaries cause the wind and the storms in Jb1-2.Did they cause the loss of Job's health?
Yes a human adversary discoursed with God. Job attributed his calamities to the hand of God. God did as Job's accuser wanted.thinker
Hi TT,
So any enemy of righteous men can have a chat to God and then, with His blessing, arrange for storms and disasters to be visted on them??How odd.
hi tk
Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
god did not comply in total with the accusers,they at at best limited power.Job 1:2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
what are you talking about human adversary in Job 1;2
??????Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2009,09:44) Hi TT,
So any enemy of righteous men can have a chat to God and then, with His blessing, arrange for storms and disasters to be visted on them??How odd.
You think satan could don't you? I don't believe this happens today. Btw, satan had no power but what God gave him. Whether the enemy was human or angelic it was God's own hand that did those things to Job.thinker
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 16 2009,09:48) hi tk
Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
god did not comply in total with the accusers,they at at best limited power.Job 1:2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
what are you talking about human adversary in Job 1;2??????
The Thinker,
I have a question about how you understand what Bildad stated about the stars. Do you think Bildad was claiming that the stars were capable of sinning?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 16 2009,10:07) The Thinker, I have a question about how you understand what Bildad stated about the stars. Do you think Bildad was claiming that the stars were capable of sinning?
I don't know all that was in Bildad's mind. I know that he said that the stars are “unpure in His (God's) sight.” Job countered by saying the “God's Spirit adorned the heavens.” The stars therefore were not unpure in God's sight in Job's thinking.God saw everything that He created and it was “very good.”
thinker
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