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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 12 2009,04:44) Hi TT,
You find scripture to be gnostic?
Gnosticism [like trinity] is addition of ideas to scripture but you want to remove from it?
You dare to contradict Jehovah?7 And so it was, after the LORD had spoken these words to Job, that the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. 8 Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to your folly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.”
9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did as the LORD commanded them; for the LORD had accepted Job. 10 And the LORD restored Job’s losses when he prayed for his friends. Indeed the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.If it was not for Job praying for Bildad Jehovah would have dealt with him according to his folly. Hopefully someone is praying for you so that the Lord will not deal with you according to your adherence to Bildad's folly.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 12 2009,05:02) Hi TT,
You oppose the words of God given for your education?
Is that why you added trinity?
Nick,
How do you sleep at night knowing that you defend a man who God condemned?
thinker
Hi TT,
Where did God condemn anyone in scripture who revealed aspects of truth?
Why then would you presume to do so?
Job too had to be reeducated.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 12 2009,05:24) Hi TT,
Where did God condemn anyone in scripture who revealed aspects of truth?
Why then would you presume to do so?
Job too had to be reeducated.
Show where Bildad's speech was accepted by God.thinker
Hi TT,
We do not reject scripture or dissect parts of it away.
Of course neither should you add trinity.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 12 2009,07:48) Hi TT,
We do not reject scripture or dissect parts of it away.
Of course neither should you add trinity.
Show where Bildad's speech was accepted by God. This is the second time I have asked. If you don't answer then I will conclude that you can't answer.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 11 2009,23:41) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2009,22:01) The Thinker wrote: Quote Bildad's view was gnostic. The Bible says that everything that God created was “very good.” Yet Bildad said that the stars are “unpure” thus implicating God with evil.
Please! Enough humor. I am assuming that bid was your attempt at humor. The Gnostics believe the material world is corrupt and that the spiritual world is not.
Bildad did not express that point of view. He expressed the point of view that all men are sinners. That is certainly not a rare point in scripture. Of all men only Jesus never sinned.
I do not even consider the absurd idea of God becoming a human being since I know God is always fundamentally God and thus cannot be fundamentally a human being. I do not need Bildad's statement of the fallen condition of humankind to prove that. Mind you humankind has not always been fallen and through the grace of God will once more attain the heights from which they fell.
Kerwin,
Read Bildad's statement again. He said that the stars are unpure in God's sight. Bildad was speaking about man in the same way. This is clearly gnostic. Job corrected Bildad and said that the God's Spirit adorned the heavens. King David said that the heavens “declare the glory of God.”God said that Job was an “upright man.” Bildad was in essence saying, “How can this be seeing that man is a maggot and a worm.” Bildad was denying that Job was righteous because “man is a worm.” Read it without your Arain/Gnostic glasses.
You have failed to answer the point that God condemned Bildad's speech. For you guys to invoke Bildad as support for your theory that the incarnation was not possible is totally ludicrous! Your defense of Bildad pits you against Jehovah Himself. This should make you cringe.
I am glad that you have checked in on this topic. Now everyone can see how gnostic anti-trinitarianism really is. You defend the words of a man God condemned and commanded to offer a sacrifice for what he said. Amazing!
thinker
You make the error of assuming that Bildad and Job contradicted each other. They do not as God created the stars and Adam and Eve's sin bound them to decay.Romans 8:21[NIV] reads:
Quote that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
I previously voiced my suspicion that Bildad was guilty of being a false witness by believing that Job was being punished for his sins when he was instead being tested.
Bildad fell into a clever snare set by Satan where he recited God's word correctly but used it in an immoral fashion by backing up a false accusation.
This is one lessen we can learn from Bildad.
In the Old Testament some are credited with righteousness because of their faith even though they are included in those that Scripture states are not righteous. Job is certainly one of those.
hi kerwin
could give more detail,i really dont understand in your last sentence,because Job is called righteous or dsicribed as one.Kerwin said:
Quote You make the error of assuming that Bildad and Job contradicted each other. They do not as God created the stars and Adam and Eve's sin bound them to decay. Kerwin,
Job clearly contradicted Bildad's assertion that the stars are “unpure in God's sight”. Job replied saying that it was “God's Spirit that adorned the heavens.” So the stars cannot be unpure as Bildad said. They are the ornaments of heaven. Job said also “far be it from me to say that you are right.” They clearly contradicted each other. More importantly, Jehovah Himself condemned Bildad's speech.Kerwin:
Quote Bildad fell into a clever snare set by Satan where he recited God's word correctly but used it in an immoral fashion by backing up a false accusation.
Show where God had ever said that “the stars are unpure” and that man is a “maggot and a worm.”thinker
Nick, while the Bible is holy and inspired, it has it's share of very bad things. Not that God's servants always doing these bad things, but the Bible has murder, lies, well, everything bad you can imagine, really….burning children in fire, rape, etc.
None of these things are accepted by God, but their very existence in scripture does not sanctify them.
They are their for a purpose….often, that purpose is to show the outcome.Bildad accuseD Job’s children of wrongdoing and of therefore meriting the calamity that befell them. With false reasoning he used this illustration: As papyrus and reeds dry up and die without water, likewise “all those forgetting God”—a statement true in itself, but most erroneous in the intimation that it applied to God-fearing Job. (Job 8) Bildad falsely classified Job’s afflictions as those coming upon the wicked: “no posterity and no progeny” for poor Job, Bildad implied. (Job 18)
Bildad, along with his other two “troublesome comforters” actually pronounced God as wicked!
JOB 32:2-3
“But the anger of E·li′hu the son of Bar′a·chel the Buz′ite of the family of Ram came to be hot. Against Job his anger blazed over his declaring his own soul righteous rather than God. Also, against his three companions his anger blazed over the fact that they had not found an answer but they proceeded to pronounce God* wicked.”
*“God,” originally. M, “Job.” The Jewish Sopherim changed the original text from “God” to “Job.”In the margin of certain Hebrew manuscripts of the Masoretic text there are notations that read: “This is one of the eighteen emendations of the Sopherim,” or similar expressions. These emendations (corrections) were made with good intentions because the original passage appeared to show either irreverence for God or disrespect for his earthly representatives. Following is a list of the Eighteen Emendations of the Sopherim, according to Gins.Int, pp. 347-363: Ge 18:22; Nu 11:15; 12:12; 1Sa 3:13; 2Sa 16:12; 20:1; 1Ki 12:16; 2Ch 10:16; Job 7:20; 32:3; Ps 106:20; Jer 2:11; La 3:20; Eze 8:17; Ho 4:7; Hab 1:12; Zec 2:8; Mal 1:13.
I think it is ridiculous to assert that Bildad, Eliphaz and Zophar were accurate in their accusations against Job.
Eliphaz falsely accused Job of all sorts of crimes—extortion, withholding water and bread from the needy, and oppressing widows and orphans.—Job 22.
But Job 1:1 tells us that Job was “to be blameless and upright, and fearing God and turning aside from bad.”
Eliphaz paints righteous Job as an apostate, living in tents of bribery, a man full of deceit. (Job 15)
Was Job “blameless and upright” or was he the exact opposite?
The Bible calls those 3 “troublesome comforters” because they were not actually comforters at all.
“Who that is innocent has ever perished? And where have the upright ever been effaced?”–Eliphaz Hence, the conclusion he draws is that Job must have done something wicked to receive God’s punishment. (Job chaps 4, 5)
But that is not true. WE know that Job's experience was not punishment from God because Job was bad.
It was brought on by Satan BECAUSE JOB WAS GOOD!!!!!!And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad?”
Was Jehovah correct, or was Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar?
Now, I'm not saying Job acted correctly when all this came upon him. He needed to be corrected too, for sure.
But Job's failure to appreciate that the vindication of Jehovah God is far more important than the vindication of himself did not mean that Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar were correct in what they said.Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 13 2009,03:12) hi kerwin
could give more detail,i really dont understand in your last sentence,because Job is called righteous or dsicribed as one.
If one ever sins then they are no longer truly righteous.I know Job lived under the old testament and scripture states about those who lived during that time that God looked down on them and found none who was righteous. That would include Job.
Scripture also states that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness even though he did sin. I just applied that to Job who also demonstrated he had faith in God by his actions.
I hope you can follow my reasoning.
Scripture does state that “no one is righteous under the law” and it also states that “all creation”, including the stars, “is in bondage to decay.” Despite that being true scripture also declares “that God’s invisible qualities are observable in creation.” This is all self evident even if it were not written in scripture.
This makes me wonder whether you are actually thinking about what you are stating since I doubt you really disagree with any of those points.
God rebukes Bildad for sinning. I do not believe he states what the sin is. I would have to reread Job to test my memory. I was voicing my suspicions that Bildad’s sin was to level false charges against both God and Job in accusing God of punishing Job for his sins and thus accusing Job of sinning. We know that God was not but was instead testing Job. I believe that despite sinning Job remained faithful.
To alL……….The only perpose for God intervention in Jobs life was for the purpose of saving Him from future sin. God had built a hedge around Job, and evil influences could not touch Him. But there in lies the problem, Job as becoming SELF RIGHTEOUS even though he was a perfect (MAN), GOD understood the potential problem, and if you listen to Job word in response to His friends you can see his problem even challenging GOD at times, thinking His was perfect and Had done (NO) wrong, but you see that was not the point rather he had committed any sin yet, it was his state of mind that was developing into a (ADVERSARY) of GOD, He even brazenly challenged GOD, and accused Him of doing evil unto Him and He was right GOD did Bring evil on JOB, for JOBS ultimate good. Job finely realized who GOD was and How insignificant he was, ” I have heard of you with the hearing of the ears but now my eyes have seen you, therefore i repent in dust and ashes”. And GOD took away all the EVIL HE Brought on HIM. Job was delivered by what GOD did to HIM.
peace and love to all……………………gene
G,
So Satan discussed the situation with God in Ch 1-2 and God allowed him to test Job via a series of storms and disasters, incuding the seemingly accidental death of his family, and carnal warfare before launching an assault on his health...Keep me from hard testing..[mt6]
Nick………That was an (ADVERSARIAL) SPIRIT (Spirit intellect) of GOD, GIVING GOD thought in His mind, to prove JOB because Job had a future Problem that was obvious to GOD. GOD the FATHER Had to deal with JOB the way he did to SAVE HIM. So he used the ADVERSARIAL Spirit (INTELLECT) to bring this about. He sent IT an (adversarial spirit) or (intellect)to cause all of Jobs troubles.
gene
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