Kathy What Do You Mean By Preexisting Sonship?

Participant

Quote (Istari @ June 03 2011,03:03)

Also, Kathi, what kind of nonsense are you writing by saying God could not be God without the Son?
The Father could not be the father without the Son.

It is evident in itself that there is no father without the Son!
Not one single person argues against that – your point is twisted to create your own delusion.

Before the Son was there was ALWAYS GOD…
Then God had a Son – and became THE FATHER…

You start AFTER GOD BECAME A FATHER then Argue that God could not possibly have EXISTED!!
I think God would disaGree with you on that –

A man is still a man even if he is not a father…
A man becomes a father after he has a son…(an offspring)

Kathi, you need not even answer as I am done with this nonsense… You are either having a great laugh in writing your nonsense – or you are weeping in each desparate defence of your nonsense.

Istari,
you said:

Quote

Also, Kathi, what kind of nonsense are you writing by saying God could not be God without the Son?

I never said that God could not be God without the Son, I was suggesting that God would not be 'Almighty' God without the Son.

The Father, without the Son, would be, as you say, not a Father. So in that way, the Father is better for having a Son.
Also, the Father would not have an 'image' without His Son.
The Father wouldn't be able to save a fallen creation without His Son, etc.

I am suggesting that the Father is more able with the Son than without Him. In other words, the presence of the Son and their Spirit makes the Father…Almighty. He is mightier with the Son than without the Son. I believe the Son was always within the Father before He was begotten. No one can prove otherwise.

BTW, creation does not come from substance within God. He creates by His will, not by evolving His substance within Him to make the heavens and the earth and all that is within.

June 3, 2011 at 4:16 pm#247772

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 03 2011,01:35)

Quote

How could God be heard by man and say that no man has heard Him?

There should be a thread about that? Just sayin.

Amen!

Very good point!

June 3, 2011 at 4:21 pm#247773

Participant

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 03 2011,04:31)

Quote (Istari @ June 03 2011,18:49)

Kathi is so far off the scale of delusion and misunderstanding that it is unreal and she is scary!

To the moderators:-

Are personal attacks like this acceptable here?!?

These is zero tolerance given to behavior like this in other forums I've visited. Can someone sort this please?

Amen!

June 3, 2011 at 4:23 pm#247774

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ June 03 2011,09:42)

Hi Paul,
I completely agree with you. However, when we read the insults from others, we learn their character. We know that is not Spirit led. God doesn't inspire others to condemn. The insults are just verification of one who condemns. Therefore, in a way, it is encouraging me to continue in my understanding since it is satan who condemns and not God. Satan leaves people alone who are not a threat to him. So, although I don't hope for insults, they too tell me about the person dishing them out. I'm sure those with the Spirit can see that on here. The one who condemns others holds up a big red flag as to who is inspiring them, imo.

Again, I appreciate your discernment.
Kathi

Hi Kathi

This is true, but I might point out it seems others follow his example and just run around the threads patronizing, judging and condemning others.

As Paul says it should not be tolerated but for some reason it is allowed here.

Blessings Keith

June 3, 2011 at 4:28 pm#247775

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 03 2011,01:42)

Quote (Lightenup @ June 03 2011,06:53)

Mike,
Their oneness consists of more than one person.

Also, if God was always Almighty, then He was never without His Son and their Spirit. Which way is God more mighty…with the Son or without the Son? With the Son, right? A no brainer. So, if God was always ALMIGHTY, then He always had the Son. He didn't go from 'mighty' to 'almighty' as God. The Son and the Spirit's existence within the Father may be why the Father can be said to be Almighty. With the Son, God can be both seen and unseen, near and far, heard and not heard. With the Spirit, the Father can search all things and dwell in all believers. The Father has more powers with both the Son and their Spirit than without them. He either always had the Son and the Spirit or else He became more powerful when He attained them than before without either of them.

Now, can you show me something that says that the Son wasn't always IN the Father before He came out of the Father?

Lu,
The only thing that doesnt make sense about your post is that you believe that the Father and the Son are seperate persons of one God, which would be a fallacy on your part.

Why? because a Father is dependant state when we know that God is omnipotent, which means he never needed anyone else.

Because He is omnipotent one cannot state that “He was always a Father” The same way that a Woman was not always a mother.

A Woman always had potential to be a mother,
And God always had the potential to be the Father, but that didnt happen until God took that role.

Other than that its pure speculation to think otherwise.

Dennison,
Actually, I believe the Father and Son are separate persons of one Godhead.

God, the Father is omnipotent because of the fullness of the Father with the Son and the Spirit who are 'of' Him. Take away the Son and the Father is less capable and not as powerful as He is with the Son. I don't believe that the Father was ever without the Son, not along side Him, but always within Him until He beget Him.

Dennison, did you realize that 23 of your 46 chromosomes, that make up your being, were existing in your mother when she was born? Think about that. As long as your mother existed, half of what makes you…you existed also.

I don't think it so far fetched to say the the Father always had the Son within Him until He was begotten from Him. In that manner, the Father was never without His Son and always Almighty, capable of all things necessary to be God. The Father and the Son created all things that were made, the Father and the Son together save mankind. Can you tell me of scripture that says that the Son couldn't have existed within the Father from eternity?

Thanks,
Kathi

June 3, 2011 at 4:35 pm#247776

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2011,11:23)

Quote (Lightenup @ June 03 2011,09:42)

Again, I appreciate your discernment.
Kathi

Hi Kathi

This is true, but I might point out it seems others follow his example and just run around the threads patronizing, judging and condemning others.

As Paul says it should not be tolerated but for some reason it is allowed here.

Blessings Keith

Keith,
I agree. I would much prefer that the condemnation here would not be tolerated. So, until that happens, we can take advantage of seeing the true character behind the condemning remarks. It strengthens me to ignore their 'advice.'

Oh well…keep our eyes on Christ and we will be ok.

Kathi

June 3, 2011 at 7:01 pm#247778

Participant

Hi Mike

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,19:35)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 01 2011,12:21)

Read 1 Cor Chapters 12-13 and you will get an understanding of how the NT Church was to function.

29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.

Is this how it is in YOUR church Keith? Does anyone get to participate whenever they have something to say?

Yep, that is why we have home meetings and Sunday school classes. These meetings are designed to have fellowship with one another through teaching the word and interacting with other believers by building each other up. That is what the scriptures you quoted above say. Jesus said where 2 or 3 are gathered together there am I in the midst. So Jesus encourages the fellowship of the saints as well as much of the NT scriptures.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,19:35)

If I went to your church, could I stop the pastor in the middle of his speech and ask him to explain how Jesus is our God in light of 1 Cor 8:6, which CLEARLY says our ONE God is the Father?

First of all I am at this time not Pastoring if you didn’t know because I am studying for my D. Min. But it probably would be out of order for you to interrupt the Pastor preaching because everything is to be done decently and in order and the Spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets. Though there have been times when someone in the congregation may have a personal prophesy and the Spirit moved on that person to speak it at the appropriate time and usually the Pastor gives the okay to interrupt.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,19:35)

If so, then send me the address and I'll come. But I won't sit idly by in a pew while the pastor praises Jesus over and over as God, as if he doesn't even know the Name of the Father, or that it was HE who actually saved us by sending His very own Son as a ransom sacrifice.

If that is what you think is going on in Churches you are wrong. Most church members already believe Jesus is God so we give equal honor to the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,19:35)

Would you or Kathi gather with devil worshippers just to keep from being an island all to yourselves?

While you didn’t directly say it you must think that we are devil worshippers. That is fine. But don’t put on like there are no anti-Jesus is God churches that you couldn’t be a part of so that you are not an “Island in yourself”. What are you afraid of Mike, that you might learn something? Heck, join the JWs since 98% of your doctrine agrees with them. (Of course I think they are a cult so I really don't recommend anyone join them.)

Blessings! WJ

June 3, 2011 at 7:03 pm#247779

Participant

Hi Mike

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,19:35)

Many of the false things you both teach were learned at these “churches” – the same kind of churches that you would have me become a member of. I'll pass.

Of course that is your choice and your opinion. But Kathi and I agree with the scriptures and the majority of early Christianity, the Forefathers, Commentators, Hebrew and Greek scholars, and Christendom today which are against your beliefs. We have chosen to listen to the gifts that God has provided for the Church for growing in his grace and knowledge. We don’t believe that we can only find truth from within ourselves or even limit his infinite truth to 66 books which by the way are brought to you because of Trinitarians. God has a proceeding word coming to his people through those he has gifted and sent to the church.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,19:35)

Now, to the POINT of my post Keith: It seems evident enough to you and I that those of us who are mostly “self taught” come up with Jesus being the Son OF our one God, the Father. Yet those of YOU who learned in churches and from Trinitarian pastors come up with the totally illogical and unscriptural understanding that Jesus IS the God he is also the Son of.

Why is it that “ONLY Self taught” people isolate themselves from the Body and the assembling of themselves together and the gifts of the Holy Spirit who also have no teacher according to Eph 4, always end up as part of the anti-Jesus is God crowd?

Those of us learning in churches are following the Bible way first by not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some and secondly because we know that the foot cannot say to the hand I don’t need you. We understand that according to Eph 5 God has given gifts to the Church for our growth and maturity in the grace and knowledge of our Lord. If you build a theological house some other way than what is Gods way then the house will have a poor foundation which will lead to all kinds of strange doctrines and opinions. It’s unbelievable some of the junk that comes out of the elites that separate themselves here.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,19:35)

Your understanding says we will someday be BROTHERS of God Almighty Himself (Themselves?).

This is a good example of a misconception of the scriptures. There is no gender in heaven Mike. There is no male or female in Christ. There will be no brothers and sisters there as we know now. We shall be “Like” the Angels, not we shall be “Angels”.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,19:35)

Your understanding teaches that God anointed Himself, then sent Himself to die for us, then raised Himself from the dead, and exalted Himself to His own right hand where He is His own Priest and Servant to Himself. And after He places His enemies at His own feet, so that He can subdue them, He'll turn the Kingdom back over to Himself so He can be all in all.

Once again this is all because you can’t see or refuse to see the big picture in scriptures. Romans 11:36 says God is the “Source” the “Agent” and the “Goal”. That’s funny because that is what Jesus is to us also.

Blessings! WJ

June 3, 2011 at 7:04 pm#247780

Participant

Hi Mike

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,19:35)

This teaching is ludicrous and from the Devil. It is a trap the Devil set to get people to worship someone other than God Almighty. And it has worked on many gullible people for centuries. I'm just not one of them…………..because I was taught by God's written word and not the nonsensical ranting of a servant of Satan posing as an angel of light behind some pedestal in front of a congregation.

Your teaching is ludicrous. The very fact that you say “Jesus is your god” and “Jesus is not your god” is ludicrous. The very fact that you say “Only One True God” cannot be taken literally is ludicrous. The fact that you say Jesus was an Angel who ceased to be an Angel for a time and then went back to being an Angel is ludicrous and straight out of the pit of hell for that concept attacks the very nature of who Jesus is, the “Only Begotten Son of God” and God is not an Angel or created being.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,19:35)

Thanks for you concern, but I will take the road less traveled to the narrow gate.

Jesus is the narrow gate and you can’t have anything from God without him. If he is your god then treat him like he is. He is your God you know Mike, because everything that you or anyone receives comes from him because all things are in his hands and by him all things consist.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,19:35)

I hope you did gain some insight from this experience Keith. I hope you do understand that left alone with only a Bible, a person of average intelligence will never come up with the trinity doctrine on his own.

Can you prove that statement? How about this, when I got saved in the spring of 1974 I knew nothing of a Trinity or the Bible. I was not brought up in church. The only thing I knew of Jesus was the curse word. But on that day without anyone telling me how to pray or what to pray I found myself sitting in the pew trembling because of his presence there and began talking to Jesus as if he was right in front of me and if my eyes could have been opened I believe he was. From that day no one had to tell me about a Trinity for like Thomas I knew that he was my Lord and my God. It was Jesus that introduced me to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Soon after I began to see scripturally they were One.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,19:35)

That nonsense must be spoon fed to the brainwashed masses that are too lazy to even open a Bible and read it for themselves.

All babes in Christ to some degree needs the truth spoon fed until they mature and are able to discern for themselves. Heb 5:12-14. Read those scriptures Mike and start studying about the church and the Body of Christ and see how important it is to have teachers. Babies can’t grow by themselves. Did you skip the baby stage as a Christian?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,19:35)

Fortunately for Satan, there seems to be no shortage of people like this.

It is truly sad that you believe that you are the judge and jury of Gods word and that you think you are the only one with the truth. It is only a teachable spirit that will know the truth and the truth will set them free.

June 3, 2011 at 7:17 pm#247781

SimplyForgiven

Participant

Mike,
I agree with the whole church thing.
todays churchs are unscriptural

June 3, 2011 at 7:28 pm#247783

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 03 2011,14:17)

Mike,
I agree with the whole church thing.
todays churchs are unscriptural

Hi Dennison

Sorry you feel that way. But how can you make a blanket statement like that about all churches? Have you been to all of them?

The majority of people getting saved, healed, and the feeding of the hungry and meeting the needs of the poor come through these so called unscriptural churches you condemn.

If that church had not have been there me getting saved would not have happened and I may have been lost.

June 4, 2011 at 4:22 am#247805

mikeboll64

Blocked

Kathi,

I just don't get you anymore. You make the blasphemous claim that God owes His “Almightyness” to one of the beings He created. And then you list things that you haven't thought through. For example:

Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2011,21:38)

Could God be a Father of a proper offspring without Jesus?

Is there any rule that says God HAS TO BE a Father? He apparently was NOT a Father until he beget a Son unto Himself, right?

Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2011,21:38)

Could God be His own image?

Who says God HAS TO HAVE someone made in His image? Are you saying that the Creator of all things could not be mighty unless He made someone in His image?

Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2011,21:38)

Could God make a covenant of grace by Himself?

He apparently made a covenant with Abraham, right? Does God Almighty NEED Jesus to make a covenant?

Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2011,21:38)

Could God be heard by man and not heard by man at the same time?

What does this even mean? God spoke through many prophets, not just Jesus. I don't get it.

Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2011,21:38)

Did God save the world from sin by Himself?

Absolutely! He did that by sacrificing His only begotten Son. It was God's will and choice to do this. Jesus eagerly followed his God's will because he always does what pleases the Father. But it was GOD who saved us THROUGH His Son. He also has saved His people countless times through other saviors.

Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2011,21:38)

God is more able with the Son than without the Son, as you should have been able to see. Thus, with the Son, God is mightier, more able, than without the Son. Therefore, the Son makes God mightier, more able. Take away the Son and God is less mighty than with the Son.

I can't even believe I'm reading this crap from you! It is blasphemous, unfounded, unscriptural and ILLOGICAL.

God has been God from eternity. He has NOT had a begotten Son from eternity, as even YOU agree. God would have been God whether or not he beget a Son, created the heavens, made man in His image, or later sacrificed His Son to save them. God was God BEFORE he created light or the first day OR His Son. You are claiming that something He created increases His might, and it's assinine.

I have been used to reading more intelligent stuff from you, Kathi. I'm disappointed and worried.

mike

June 4, 2011 at 4:45 am#247808

Participant

Wow Mike,
You have joined the ranks of condemnation with others here.

You know that I don't believe the Son was created so your points about the Son being a creation are invalid towards me.

There was a lot of 'saving' going on in scripture but the saving that the Son did was eternal. The others weren't. The Father was not able to offer eternal salvation apart from His Son, was He? It was the 'God' things that the Father AND the Son did together, like creation and eternal salvation. The Father is Almighty because of the Son and their Spirit. The Son was always within the Father until He was begotten from the Father before creation. The Father was always Almighty because the Son always existed with Him, first within Him and then begotten from Him.

Again, God was always 'Almighty' God because the Son always existed with Him and their Spirit.

Kathi

June 4, 2011 at 5:03 am#247810

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2011,14:28)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 03 2011,14:17)

Mike,
I agree with the whole church thing.
todays churchs are unscriptural

Hi Dennison

Sorry you feel that way. But how can you make a blanket statement like that about all churches? Have you been to all of them?

The majority of people getting saved, healed, and the feeding of the hungry and meeting the needs of the poor come through these so called unscriptural churches you condemn.

If that church had not have been there me getting saved would not have happened and I may have been lost.

I agree Keith.

I was able to take a meal and pray for a lady from church just yesterday who was recently diagnosed with an incurable disease.

My pastor was saying this Sunday how God used him to go to another country and speak and lay out the plan of salvation to the room full of people. When he asked if anyone wanted this, to raise their hand and the whole room raised their hand. My pastor says that he is not an evangelist and is very cautious not to stir up the emotions of people and thus have some emotional response. He knew it was God at work.

My two sons recently gave a benefit concert for their friends from church who were leaving the next day to go to Honduras to dig wells for people so they could have clean water.

One woman at church has a ministry for the single mothers in the area. Another man from church came here less than a year ago to pick up some of my furniture that I donated to a housing complex where living conditions are deplorable according to our standards. Wednesday night a friend told me that the Lord has her spending time with her young neighbor every week during the summer to help him learn to read. His parents are going through an ugly divorce and the child is having a very hard time learning. Also, every week this summer the church is providing the 'Truth Project' to equip the church…no charge to anyone. The room was packed with people wanting to learn. My church has a ministry for the disabled children so that their parents can come to church and know that their disabled child has a place to be loved and taught about the Lord. There are children outreaches, worldwide ministries, short term mission trips going on quite often. And I could go on and on about the benefits of church.

I am confident that in all these ministries, people are being taught about God the Father as well as His Son and the Spirit that can guide them in their walk. They aren't just learning about Jesus.

Kathi

June 4, 2011 at 9:01 am#247816

Participant

When Jesus said 'You have neither heard His voice nor seen His form' he was speaking to the hard-nosed people.
'Heard His voice' means 'to receive His Godliness' 'For everyone who hears the word of God does the works of God'! ('My sheep hear my Voice' John 10:27, literally – so would that mean that the people Jesus was speaking to couldn't hear what he was saying – or COULDN'T RECEIVE (hear) what he was saying such that they changed to godliness?)
How many parents/Teachers/Authorities have used the phrase 'Do you hear what I am saying!' to an itererant?

'Seen His form' means 'To know His Power firsthand – what He can do' 'For one must be Holy to See God'.

It certainly does not mean that NO ONE has LITERALLY not heard his voice nor LITERALLY not seen him A FORM/Manifestation' for Scriptures says that God appeared to Moses on the mountain in dense Smoky Cloud and Ashes and spoke to him in thunder and lightening.
This was to shroud God from the direct view of Moses who would certainly have died had God not hidden himself (His AWESOME POWER) behind the veil. And the people cried out for mercy because they could not stand the noise of God speaking so they begged for God to speak through a human voice – hence the Prophets!

June 4, 2011 at 11:53 am#247821

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ June 04 2011,01:54)

I believe the Son was always within the Father before He was begotten. No one can prove otherwise.

Could you prove or disprove that I was not always in God?

The logos was and still is in God.
Then the logos was WITH God.
This doesn't mean that God was now without logos, but that God gave birth, produced, sourced the logos, gave the logos free will to be with him and then created all through the logos. Like a fire that causes another fire. It doesn't lessen the first fire.

We know that God created all through Christ and we know that Christ is the Logos.

So pre the logos being WITH God, was Jesus inside God for all eternity?

I think it is better to see it that all attributes are of and in God. He decides when others come forth and he decides what attributes of his own character they will have. He gives them the breath and a will and now they can choose.

So it is not really about Jesus being in him for all eternity because if he was then we all were. Yes the attributes/components were in him for all eternity. i.e., pnuema/spirit/breath, logos, wisdom, truth, love, grace, etc.

I bet you could take anyone and know that they have the breath and a selection of other attributes. That is why God has an intimate name for us that no one else knows. But were you in God for all eternity? Well the attributes that make you were.

This is why we see wisdom as a female in the OT. It is an attribute or part of God's character rather than a person. Later it says wisdom was given birth and was the craftsman at God's side.

The point is that God and Jesus are addressed in the same sentence many many times in scripture as being different persons or identities. It seems weird that so many ignore this obvious structure in scripture and try to make no distinction in their doctrine so it doesn't match the distinction in scripture.

June 4, 2011 at 12:21 pm#247822

Participant

T8,
Kathi has jumped off the cliff of wisdom – and as such I have given up discussing the matter with her.

It is clear she has entrenched herself so far from truth and reality that nothing anyone (of mankind) says to her will move her – only God can move her!

She must cry and weep every time she makes a post knowing she is wrong but being forced by the spirit of untruth to maintain her stance.

Notice that she does not answer when it is stated that if Jesus was IN GOD then ALL OTHER THINGS were ALSO IN GOD including MANKIND, SATAN, and the Fallen Angels and the Whole Universe (The Heavens and the Earth). So what then is 'Special' about Jesus being 'In God'?

Moreover, everyone is missing a vital bit of information – which has been exposed before but never dwelt on:

'WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF JESUS BECOMING MAN'?

If Jesus was the 'Grand' Son of God with all God's power and IS GOD – WHY IS HE NOT CALLED GOD from the beginning – why is he ONLY SAID TO BE 'SHALL BE CALLED' and then a 'Title' that is LESS THAN 'Almighty God' seeing that he Already IS GOD?

Kathi gets all confused and claims that God cannot be God without the Son… Oh, took much – I'm trying not to develop and encourage the thought by analysis in my head…!!

June 4, 2011 at 12:41 pm#247823

Participant

If Jesus is God then how is his Name glorified by God – and then Glorified again?

That would mean that Jesus is GREATER THAN GOD – but wait… He IS GOD… aarrggghhh…..it does not compute!!!!!
Jesus was raised to a greater position than being GOD!!!
Jesus becomes the HIGH PRIEST of God – but he IS GOD!!!
Jesus becomes the Mediator between God and Man – between HIMSELF and Man!!!
Jesus is made KING OVER his OWN KINGDOM – but the Kingdom is ALREADY HIS – FOR HE IS GOD…
And then he hands HIS KINGDOM BACK TO GOD – but he IS GOD!!!
and the Holy Spirit can ONLY SPEAK (Pronounce) that which is Jesus' GIVEN TO HIM BY GOD – but he IS GOD – so he gave it to himself!!!
The Holy Spirit is USED by God and Jesus (But the HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD)

No, T8, this is not a healthy discussion.
We are forcing Kathi to create a defence for her weak fallacy making it into a STRONG fallacy…
Every time we for her to make a defence she increases in her untruthfulness.

I say nothing of WJ who is just riding on the back of her delusion seeing he has no one else that believes HIS DELUSION…

June 4, 2011 at 2:30 pm#247827

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ June 04 2011,00:03)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2011,14:28)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 03 2011,14:17)

Mike,
I agree with the whole church thing.
todays churchs are unscriptural

Hi Dennison

Sorry you feel that way. But how can you make a blanket statement like that about all churches? Have you been to all of them?

The majority of people getting saved, healed, and the feeding of the hungry and meeting the needs of the poor come through these so called unscriptural churches you condemn.

If that church had not have been there me getting saved would not have happened and I may have been lost.

I agree Keith.

I was able to take a meal and pray for a lady from church just yesterday who was recently diagnosed with an incurable disease.

My two sons recently gave a benefit concert for their friends from church who were leaving the next day to go to Honduras to dig wells for people so they could have clean water.

I am confident that in all these ministries, people are being taught about God the Father as well as His Son and the Spirit that can guide them in their walk. They aren't just learning about Jesus.

Kathi

Good post! I wonder how many here that don't assemble themselves have testimonies like that?

Blessings Keith

June 4, 2011 at 2:50 pm#247828