Kathy What Do You Mean By Preexisting Sonship?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2011,01:51)

Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2011,21:05) Mike, John was written in common Greek and not English. Yes Kerwin.  And in the common Greek, 1:14 says the Word came to BE flesh, not came to BE IN flesh.  Am I right? Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2011,21:05) Do you believe “flesh” is a position the Word came to fill like Arnold Swartzenegger  came to fill the position of governor? Have you ever voted someone into the position of “flesh”?    No, I don't believe that, Kerwin.  In fact, I find it hard to believe the lengths to which you will go to maintain your flawed doctrine.  I believe that the Word, who was a spirit being in the form of God, WAS MADE into a flesh and blood being to fulfill God's plan. Kerwin, WHO had the glory of an only begotten from the Father? mike

Mike,

You choose to ignore what does not fit your chosen worldview so be careful about throwing stones you that live in a glass house.

In one thread you say a versions grammer is exact while in another you say it is not; This apears to depends on if it agrees with your point of view.  My point is the origional grammer of scripture is Greek and translators did not always do a good job of translating it to the English grammer that may itself differ from place to place.

I saw you argue with other about whether words in John 1:1 could be be translated as “a god” instead of “God” and yet you object despite knowing “made”  can also be “united” and is translated that way in other places in scripture.  

So strive be consistent on what you measure with. after all Satan is tricky; so watch yourself that you not be decieved.

I am confident you know that the Spirit issaid to be the Word in Scripture.  I believe you also know that Jesus has the Spirit.  As you know these things then why do you choose to argue that the Spirit is united with the human being Jesus as it clear that scripture states it is?

Only the Spirit of God is only begotten of God.  All others are begotten by the Spirit of God.  Jesus the human being inherited the Spirit and so he and it became a new creation with the same position and history.

Have you tested what quote from http://www.churchgrowth.cc/Word_became_flesh.htm ?

Edited to correct some punctuation and in other ways make my words easier to understand.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2011,06:54)

Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2011,22:44) “The Word”(HolySpirit) became flesh. (John 1:14) So the whole time Jesus was on earth, God was without His Holy Spirit?  He could not have filled John the Baptist with the Holy Spirit because that Spirit was not spirit any longer, for it had BECOME FLESH? Is that it?

Hi Mike,

Now you're just talking silly. Consider Eph.4:4-6…

Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
is above all, and through all, and in you all.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2011,00:28)

Mike, You choose to ignore what does not fit your chosen worldview so be careful about throwing stones you that live in a glass house.

I will, Kerwin.

Now, would you give me a DIRECT answer to my question?

Kerwin, WHO had the glory of an only begotten from the Father?

Thanks,

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 02 2011,03:37)

Hi Mike, Now you're just talking silly. Consider Eph.4:4-6…

Hi Ed,

Could you also DIRECTLY answer the question I bolded for Kerwin in the post above?

Thanks,
mike

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2011,01:51)

Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2011,21:05) Mike, John was written in common Greek and not English. Yes Kerwin.  And in the common Greek, 1:14 says the Word came to BE flesh, not came to BE IN flesh.  Am I right? Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2011,21:05) Do you believe “flesh” is a position the Word came to fill like Arnold Swartzenegger  came to fill the position of governor? Have you ever voted someone into the position of “flesh”?    No, I don't believe that, Kerwin.  In fact, I find it hard to believe the lengths to which you will go to maintain your flawed doctrine.  I believe that the Word, who was a spirit being in the form of God, WAS MADE into a flesh and blood being to fulfill God's plan. Kerwin, WHO had the glory of an only begotten from the Father? mike

Mike,

I am not able to access online scripture at this time but ther wording of what you wrote does not seem quite right. I will try to remember to answer your question when and if the opotunity presents itself in the future.

[mikeboll64]

Reminder for Kerwin and Ed J.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2011,13:41)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2011,00:28) Mike, You choose to ignore what does not fit your chosen worldview so be careful about throwing stones you that live in a glass house. I will, Kerwin. Now, would you give me a DIRECT answer to my question? Kerwin, WHO had the glory of an only begotten from the Father? Thanks, mike

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 07 2011,10:06)

Reminder for Kerwin and Ed J.

Hi Mike,

I believe this is the verse you are referring to…

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his(the Father's) glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) (the Father)full of grace and truth.
You have not quoted Scripture correctly, “AS” Kerwin pointed out to YOU. (John 1:14)

Keep asking questions! Glory comes from GOD, and God's glory is manifested in his children!
Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy
to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

In case you are having trouble “connecting the dots“, here are the ideas are connected together for YOU…
The glory, as of the (Father's) glory which shall be revealed in us.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Lightenup]

Edj,
According to the lexicon, the word 'full' is an adjective for the nominative (the subject of the sentence) which is not the Father but the 'word.'

see here:
http://interlinearbible.org/john/1-14.htm

So, 'full of grace and truth' describes the 'word' in this verse.

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

[mikeboll64]

Hi Ed,

I'm not sure if you misplaced a parenthesis or what. But you seem to be saying that it was the Father who had the glory of an only begotten FROM the Father. Is this correct?

peace,
mike

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2011,03:26)

Hi Ed, I'm not sure if you misplaced a parenthesis or what.  But you seem to be saying that it was the Father who had the glory of an only begotten FROM the Father.  Is this correct? peace, mike

Hi Mike,

No, that is not a correct analogy of the Scriptures.
They beheld the glory of the father, in His only begotten Son.
The world will also behold that glory in all of God's children. (Rom.8:18)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

So then the SIMPLE and DIRECT answer to my question was, “Mike, it was JESUS who had the glory of an only begotten from the Father”, right?

Is that correct?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2011,03:57)

So then the SIMPLE and DIRECT answer to my question was, “Mike, it was JESUS who had the glory of an only begotten from the Father”, right? Is that correct?

Hi Mike,

I hope these highlighted parts allow you to see what the Scripture saith…

“The words that I(Jesus) speak unto you
I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth in me” (John 14:10)
“The words” that I(Jesus) speak unto you, they
are [HolySpirit], and they are life. (John 6:63) (See John 17:3)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Hi Ed,

Was my previous post to you correct? YES or NO? Was it JESUS who had the glory as an only begotten from the Father? YES or NO?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2011,04:27)

Hi Ed, (1) Was my previous post to you correct?  YES or NO?  (2) Was it JESUS who had the glory as an only begotten from the Father?  YES or NO?

Hi Mike,

1) No.

2) Your point number 2 is worded in such a way that it cannot be answered with either a yes or a no.
    They beheld the glory of the father, in His only begotten Son. (John 1:14)
    “The Word” maketh the Son. (Hebrews 7:28)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Bye Ed.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2011,08:41)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2011,00:28) Mike, You choose to ignore what does not fit your chosen worldview so be careful about throwing stones you that live in a glass house. I will, Kerwin. Now, would you give me a DIRECT answer to my question? Kerwin, WHO had the glory of an only begotten from the Father? Thanks, mike

Mike,

The YLT, ASV, NKJV, and NASV like the KJV have the words “as of” in John 1:14 thus comparing the glory of the Word become flesh to the glory of the only begotten of God.  So going by those versions the answer would be that the Word which became a human being has a glory like that child.

Quote

John 1:14 King James Version (KJV) 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The NIV does not have those words and thus the two glory's can be said to be the same glory.  

You seem to be using the NIV translation or a similar one which apears to drop a translated word of the common Greek word “hos” out of the scripture.

I also find the choice to use a comparison word a mystery.

Note: The word hos has a “-” over the “o”.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 09 2011,11:08)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2011,08:41) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2011,00:28) Mike, You choose to ignore what does not fit your chosen worldview so be careful about throwing stones you that live in a glass house. I will, Kerwin. Now, would you give me a DIRECT answer to my question? Kerwin, WHO had the glory of an only begotten from the Father? Thanks, mike Mike, The YLT, ASV, NKJV, and NASV like the KJV have the words “as of” in John 1:14 thus comparing the glory of the Word become flesh to the glory of the only begotten of God.  So going by those versions the answer would be that the Word which became a human being has a glory like that child. Quote John 1:14 King James Version (KJV) 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. The NIV does not have those words and thus the two glory's can be said to be the same glory.   You seem to be using the NIV translation or a similar one which apears to drop a translated word of the common Greek word “hos” out of the scripture. I also find the choice to use a comparison word a mystery. Note: The word hos has a “-” over the “o”.

Kerwin

you still did not answer Mike s question ,

your answer is what ?

your argument is only as good as your conclusion but you do not have any

Pierre

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Baker @ April 28 2011,08:39)

Kathy!   Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;   Jesus is the beginning of Gods creation. Peace Irene

No Irene! The Greek “arche” means “chief” like in arch-angel.

Jesus is the “chief” over God's creation.

YOUNG'S LITERAL TRANSLATION:

14`And to the messenger of the assembly of the Laodiceans write: These things saith the Amen, the witness — the faithful and true — the CHIEF of the creation of God;

It says nothing about Christ's origin one way or the other. You had it right the first time. Why did you abandon Jesus?

Jack

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 08 2011,05:16)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2011,04:27) Hi Ed, (1) Was my previous post to you correct?  YES or NO?  (2) Was it JESUS who had the glory as an only begotten from the Father?  YES or NO? Hi Mike, 1) No. 2) Your point number 2 is worded in such a way that it cannot be answered with either a yes or a no.     They beheld the glory of the father, in His only begotten Son. (John 1:14)     “The Word” maketh the Son. (Hebrews 7:28) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

No Ed!

They beheld His (Jesus') glory. It says that they beheld the glory as of the “only Son” of the Father.

Jack

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 08 2011,11:08)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2011,08:41) Kerwin, WHO had the glory of an only begotten from the Father? mike Mike, The YLT, ASV, NKJV, and NASV like the KJV have the words “as of” in John 1:14 thus comparing the glory of the Word become flesh to the glory of the only begotten of God.  So going by those versions the answer would be that the Word which became a human being has a glory like that child.

That IS what the scripture teaches, Kerwin:  That the Word which became a human being had the glory as of the only begotten from the Father.

There is only ONE human being who ever existed that had the glory as of the only begotten from the Father.

The Word became that human being, Kerwin – just as you have now concluded. This teaching is supported in Phil 2, where the one who was existing in the form of God emptied himself and was made into a human being. In Phil 2 – and later in John 1 – this one is clearly identified as Christ Jesus.

peace,
mike

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