Justaskin vrs worshippingjesus

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 10 2011,05:13)

I like your drawing board. I may use it myself. But I noticed it is blank.

Yes WJ.

It is blank because a man needs to empty himself before he can be filled with truth.

Place a blank sheet into the drawing board and see how you go. Report back when you have come up with something that works with scripture rather than against it. Remember, no previous scribbles allowed.

February 10, 2011 at 4:05 am#235815

mikeboll64

Blocked

Keith, you may have overlooked these two questions I posted before:

1. Keith, is the Father your ONLY God? Not the Son. Not some Father/Son combo. But ONLY the Father. Is ONLY the Father ALONE your ONLY God?

It's a yes or no answer.

2. Keith, can the Greek words of Jude 1:4 POSSIBLY be honestly translated as the KJV does it………….or is that translation a total IMPOSSIBILITY?

Be honest, Keith.

peace and love,
mike

February 10, 2011 at 4:09 am#235816

Participant

For US there is one God the Father. We are the US WJ.
For you's there is one God the Father, Son, Spirit. Besides that being an oxymoron, you will notice that the latter group is not US.

You are welcome to join forces with US. No prejudice.

February 10, 2011 at 6:17 pm#235856

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 08 2011,18:36)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 09 2011,09:11)

So satan gets to be a God and Jesus doesn't?

You never answered my honest question…

Tell us t8, If to you satan is the God of this world then who is Jesus the God of?

The Bible does call Jesus God too doesn't it?

Scripture says that Jesus is the son of God and Satan is the theos of this age.

Laugh all you like, but that does equate to mocking the one who inspired these scriptures. All mocking is done at your own risk. Heaven Net is not responsible for any judgement that may occur outside of our control.

You still didn't answer the question. Do the scriptures call Jesus God or not?

If so then answer the quesiton.

Tell us t8, If to you satan is the God of this world then who is Jesus the God of?

Are you gonna give a direct answer or are you just gonna spin and then censor me?

Do as you like sir, it is your sight but I don't have to stay.

February 10, 2011 at 7:20 pm#235858

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 09 2011,19:39)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 10 2011,05:13)

Which means that since nothing came into being without Jesus and since the scriptures tell us “what he sees the Father do he does” then that means Jesus is also creator or the God that created the good. Because the Bible tells us that YHVH “alone” and “by himself” created all things.

Too many assumptions.

To many assumptions? Well lets see..

…The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, “these also doeth the Son likewise. John 5:19

Does the above scripture say Jesus does what ever he sees the Father do? Yes of No?

All things were made by him; and “without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

Does the above scripture say….

without him was not any thing made that was made? Yes or No

Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; “that stretcheth forth the heavens alone“; that spreadeth abroad the earth “by myself; Isa 44:24

According to the above scripture did YHVH create all things “Alone” or “By himself? Yes or No.

How do you explain this conundrum?

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 09 2011,19:39)

God created you through your mother and father. Is your mother your creator?

No, because she and I was created by the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. She is part of the creation. Jesus is not because nothing came into being without him. You do understand this don't you t8. Will you answer the questions?

Please explain how your theology aligns with the scriptures when you say through Jesus all things were created yet YHVH says he created all things “alone” and “by himself”?

Back to that drawing board. You should start with John 1:1 which says “the Word was with God and was God”, then John proves it by stating not one thing came into being without him.

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 09 2011,19:39)

See now.

God is the creator. All things through Jesus.

But the scriptures say 'God is creator alone, by himself. Why does your confession not match what the scriptures say.

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 09 2011,19:39)

Also, are we not to do all thing through Jesus or in his name?So does that make us Jesus?

The very fact that everything is done by or through Jesus should give you a clue.

February 10, 2011 at 7:29 pm#235859

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2011,22:05)

Keith, you may have overlooked these two questions I posted before:

1. Keith, is the Father your ONLY God?

Yes, but so is Jesus and the Holy Spirit for they are One.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2011,22:05)

Not the Son. Not some Father/Son combo.

So you say.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2011,22:05)

But ONLY the Father. Is ONLY the Father ALONE your ONLY God?

Yes because he is included in the Trinity. The Father Son and the Holy Spirit are One.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2011,22:05)

2. Keith, can the Greek words of Jude 1:4 POSSIBLY be honestly translated as the KJV does it………….or is that translation a total IMPOSSIBILITY?

No, not according to the NET, AT Robertson and the GSR.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2011,22:05)

Be honest, Keith.

Which means I would probably not follow your example.

Now answer my questions…

Is the Father your “Only Lord and Master”?

Is the Father your “Only God”?

Did the Father “Alone” and “by himself” with “none other” create all things?

Be honest!

February 10, 2011 at 7:46 pm#235861

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 09 2011,22:09)

For US there is one God the Father. We are the US WJ.
For you's there is one God the Father, Son, Spirit. Besides that being an oxymoron, you will notice that the latter group is not US.

You are welcome to join forces with US. No prejudice.

And for us “the Word that was with God was God”. John 1:1

And for us he is the “Mighty God”. Isa 9:6

And for us he is our “Lord and God”. John 20:28

And for us he “our only master and Lord”. Jude 1:4

And for us he is “The Rock that followed the children of Israel in the wilderness” and that “Rock” is YHVH. 1 Cor 10:4

And for us he is Emanuel “God with us”. Matt 1:23

I already belong to the true Church of Jesus Christ which is the church of God, his (Jesus) body or the Temple of God. Gods dwelling place. The fullness of the Godhead the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit dwells in Jesus body.

February 11, 2011 at 3:10 am#235875

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2011,22:05)

Keith, is the Father your ONLY God?

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 11 2011,05:29)

Yes, but so is Jesus and the Holy Spirit for they are One.

Sorry Charlie. You have spoken unscripturally. Jesus says the Father is the only true God. Paul says our one God is the Father.

Keith, do you willingly go against these scriptures? Do you willingly go against the very words of Jesus Christ? Were Paul and Jesus LYING?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2011,22:05)

Keith, can the Greek words of Jude 1:4 POSSIBLY be honestly translated as the KJV does it?

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 11 2011,05:29)

No, not according to the NET, AT Robertson and the GSR.

Yes Keith, we all know how many recent trinitarian Bibles translate it today. But that is not the question, is it? I want an answer according to the HONESTY of Keith, not “according to the NET, AT Robertson and the GSR”.

Keith, you've seen the Greek words. Are you saying that it is a complete impossibility for those Greek words to be saying, “our only Sovereign, and our Lord Jesus Christ”?

Again, I'm not asking according to anyone else except you and your HONESTY. Can the Greek words POSSIBLY be translated like the KJV scholars translated them? Or do YOU honestly claim that there is no way in the universe that those Greek words COULD mean “our only Sovereign, and our Lord Jesus Christ”?

Quote

Is the Father your “Only Lord and Master”?

Is the Father your “Only God”?

There are many lords and gods Keith. But the way it breaks down for those of us in the truth is that the Father is the One in the highest position of all – GOD ALMIGHTY. And directly under him is the one whom God Almighty installed as our King and Lord – Jesus Christ.

Quote

Did the Father “Alone” and “by himself” with “none other” create all things?

Absolutely. He says so in scripture, right? But it is also said that He created everything through Jesus, right?

Keith, for all you know, Jesus could have acted as some kind of prism. God produced many visible colors BY HIMSELF, but He did that THROUGH Jesus. Get it?

I don't know the roles of creation. I only know that nothing is EVER said to have been CREATED by Jesus in all of scripture. And I know that God said He did it alone, but somehow THROUGH Jesus.

So even if Jesus did the hands on work, and God chooses to consider Himself as sole Creator, who are we to argue?

mike

February 15, 2011 at 6:21 pm#236075

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 10 2011,05:03)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2011,18:26)

If Satan can be called the RULER (ie: god) of this world, then why can't Jesus have it said to him: “My Lord and my RULER” (ie: god)?

It is because of the context which we have been telling you all along. The context of Johns Gospel tells us that Jesus possessed all things including all authority and power in heaven and earth, and that neither John nor Jesus rebuked Thomas for calling Jesus his Lord and God with the definite article.

Hi WJ,

Jesus began to teach his Disciples…
The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests,
and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. (Mark 8:31)

And we all know that “God The Father” (by his “HolySpirit”) was the one that raised Jesus from the dead…
Acts:5:30: The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
God raised Jesus up from the dead, never to die again. (Acts 13:33-34)
God the Father, raised Jesus from the dead. (Gal.1:1)

And again…
1Cor.6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own (HolySpirit) power.
Jesus hath God(HolySpirit) raised up the third day, and showed him openly (to Thomas). (Acts:10:40)

It is therefor “OBVIOUS” that Thomas was reverencing both Jesus(as Lord)
and the “HolySpirit”(as God), who raised Jesus form the dead!
Why is it so hard for you to understand that the “HolySpirit” was IN Jesus?
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him(Jesus),
My Lord(Jesus) and my God(HolySpirit).

Rom.4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed,
if we believe on him(HolySpirit) that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.
Rom.8:11 But if the [HolySpirit] of him(YHVH) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you,
he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by HIS SPIRIT that dwelleth in you.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)

February 15, 2011 at 6:22 pm#236076

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 10 2011,05:03)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2011,18:26)

If Satan can be called the RULER (ie: god) of this world, then why can't Jesus have it said to him: “My Lord and my RULER” (ie: god)?

Hi WJ,

If you give a homeless person a crisp 20 dollar bill
and he raises his hands and says thank you God,
are you going for rebuke him for him saying that?

Think about it!

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 15, 2011 at 9:18 pm#236079

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 15 2011,12:22)

If you give a homeless person a crisp 20 dollar bill
and he raises his hands and says thank you God,
are you going for rebuke him for him saying that?

But if he says to me “thank you God”, then yes I would rebuke him.

The problem is Thomas didn’t say…

“MY LORD AND MY FATHER”, did he?

Listen again…

Jn 20:28
28 And Thomas answered and *SAID UNTO HIM*, My Lord and my God.

Thomas *SAID UNTO HIM*. Not said unto them.

Not only that but Jesus also says immediately after…

Thomas, because “thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed John 20:29

He doesn't say because thou hast seen “the Father” or “the Holy Spirit” or “Us” thou hast believed but “because thou hast SEEN ME“.

Try again!

February 15, 2011 at 9:35 pm#236080

Participant

Quote

John 20:28-29 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed:
blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Hi WJ,

Are you forgetting how all the Scriptures tie together into a mosaic of “Truth”?
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I(Christ) been so long time with you,
and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath
seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the HolySpirit
and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all
that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 15, 2011 at 11:10 pm#236089

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 15 2011,15:35)

Quote

Hi WJ,

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the HolySpirit
and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all
that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Sure you can make the scriptures say anything for instance…

And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and “hanged himself.” Matt 27:5

Then said Jesus unto him, “Go, and do thou likewise“. Luke 10:37

Thomas didn't have the scriptures that you quote so when he said to Jesus “My Lord and My God” he meant what he said.

February 15, 2011 at 11:19 pm#236092

KangarooJack

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 09 2011,08:25)

You are allowed to laugh at scripture. Although you may be laughing out of embarrassment. But let me show you a better way. Let scripture teach you. Respect scripture and put it before your own understanding. Learn to love scripture.

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

YHWH is not the Father of lies. Satan is.
Jesus Father is God. Our Father is God.
All liars and murderers have Satan as their father. Satan is their God.

If you continue to have a problem with this, then I suggest that you read these scriptures with an open mind. If you are already full of your own understanding, then truth will simply not penetrate your understanding when it is poured on you. Instead it will fall away from you.

Satan did what he wanted only under Christ's permission. Get real man!

Jesus is over ALL principalities and poweres. Oh, I forgot, you say that satan is excluded because he “does what he wants.”

Roo

February 16, 2011 at 12:31 am#236104

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 16 2011,09:10)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 15 2011,15:35)

Quote

Hi WJ,

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the HolySpirit
and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all
that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Sure you can make the scriptures say anything for instance…

And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and “hanged himself.” Matt 27:5

Then said Jesus unto him, “Go, and do thou likewise“. Luke 10:37

Thomas didn't have the scriptures that you quote so when he said to Jesus “My Lord and My God” he meant what he said.

Hi WJ,

Your 'funny'! That distraction does in NO WAY nullify “The Truth” of what I said.

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 16, 2011 at 12:37 am#236105

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 16 2011,09:19)

Satan did what he wanted only under Christ's permission.

Roo

Hi Jack,

Did Jesus give satan permission to tempt him? (James 1:13 / Luke 4:2-13)

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 16, 2011 at 4:03 am#236118

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 11 2011,04:17)

You still didn't answer the question. Do the scriptures call Jesus God or not?

I do not know if Thomas called Jesus, theos or not because there are 2 ways you can interpret that text. Also, the text has to definite articles instead of one. It literally translates as “the lord of me and the god [THEOS] of me”. If Thomas meant his words to refer to only one person, only one definite article would have been enough: “the Lord and God of me”.

So Thomas either said that Jesus was his God or he was also referring to God the Father. I am not sure which one, But neither infringes on what myself and others are saying to you.

The other verse that comes to mind is “mighty god”.

That verse uses the word so in that verse he is called 'el'. (He is also called father, but we know that it is not saying that he is the Heavenly Father as Oneness Doctrine says.)

Definition for El:
god, god-like one, mighty one
mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
angels
god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
God, the one true God, Jehovah
mighty things in nature
strength, power

If Jesus is called theos, then I am sure that it is not in the sense that you say it is, rather it would be in the same sense of theos in quality as we see attributed to others such as angels/mighty ones/god-like.

In nearly all but a few examples, (ignoring idols) 'theos' is reserved for the Father. On a few occassions we see reference to those who held Moses seat, angels, and Satan.

Arguing that Jesus is God seems unbalanced when you do not equally argue that angels or sons of the Most High are also theos. This is further supported by Jesus who in defense when others said he claimed to be God, he said, “Is it not written, Ye are gods, you are all sons of the Most High”. He then said, “Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?”.

It seems to me WJ, that you have exactly the same problem that those Jews had. You accuse Jesus of saying that he is God. Read Jesus reply to you them again, (which is an appropriate reply to you).

“Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?”.

February 16, 2011 at 4:20 am#236120

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 16 2011,09:19)

Oh, I forgot, you say that satan is excluded because he “does what he wants.”

Either that or he does the will of God.

If you need help in which one, I will give you a clue.
He is the father of lies.

Ask someone what father means.

February 16, 2011 at 3:39 pm#236145