Justaskin vrs worshippingjesus

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,07:13)

Ha Ha Mike

It doesn't matter to me what you think. I will take AT Roberstsons word over yours everyday, not to mention the scriptures and the Holy Spirit that testifys that Jesus is My Only Master and Lord and God.

Hi WJ,

(Jeremiah 15:5..7) Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and
maketh flesh his arm. Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD.
Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. Jms.2:4 Are
ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)

February 6, 2011 at 5:21 am#235487

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2011,07:41)

Hi Keith,

I didn't leave anything out. I placed the word “our” in front of Lord, just like the KJV did. I don't have the JW's Greek interlinear…

mike

Hi Mike,

Jude1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares,
who were before of old ordained to this condemnation,
ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness,
and denying the “ONLY LORD GOD”, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (1John 2:22)

(Modified Google Jude 1:4) For some people crept in unawares,
before ordained people at the end of his wicked shame, changing our
God's grace into lasciviousness by denying only LORD, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

“The Bible”=63
The Bible ALWAYS explains itself!(=63 x5)

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 6, 2011 at 6:08 pm#235516

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,09:42)

What does “One Lord” or “Only Master” mean to you Mike?

It means that they may have had slaves who had earthly masters but who was their “One Lord” and “One Master”?

Slaves, obey your human masters

Now you're getting my point. Do you see how “ONLY” doesn't necessarily literally mean “ONLY”?

You show a scripture that speaks of human masters, but then ask “What does ONLY master mean?”

It is an emphatic way of claiming God as ABOVE all other masters. Just like I've tried to explain to you about “many who are called god, but only one God”.

It doesn't mean that there are no other “elohim” at all, but instead is an empatic way of saying YHVH is above all those other gods.

This is what I've been trying to teach you for months………..and it seems you finally got it! Now we have to work on “ALL power and authority”, right?

Anyway, let's move away from the diversion and back to the issue: I asked you if it can possibly be translated the way the KJV puts it. You didn't answer, so I'll answer for you. The answer is YES. It CAN be the way the KJV translates it, and I did get a chance to look at the Greek Interlinear and I was right. The “our” is really “of us”, like I assumed. And we don't say “Lord OF US” in English, we say “OUR Lord”. So Jude 1:4 says,

“denying our only Sovereign, and OUR Lord, Jesus Christ.”

Bye bye “proof text”! Hello “wishful thinking text”!

Man, just look at all these “proof texts” going down the drain.

mike

February 7, 2011 at 4:06 am#235541

Participant

Quote (mikeangel @ Jan. 24 2011,23:44)

On the surface, it seems true, that if Satan is the God of this world, how can all authority belong to Jesus? That seems redundant. Sorry for the interruption-Mark

First off, it is not me who says it but scripture and second, Satan as the God of this Age means that he has an allotted time and that his time is short, whereas, the reign of Christ will never cease because he will rule God's creation with a rod of iron.

It should now make sense as to why it is written that all will eventually come under Christ so that all will eventually be defeated and redeemed back to God.

So yes all authority in the big picture. In our snapshot of time, Satan is indeed the God of this age but it does pay to note that YHWH is the God of all creation, so he merely allows Satan this authority for a time.

February 7, 2011 at 4:12 am#235542

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 25 2011,05:48)

Boy you sound upset. Of course I would say what? That “It “APPEARS”” here that satan is greater than Jesus”? I only quoted your own words…

You didn't quote my words, you added that one was 'greater' than the other when I make no such statement. You are clearly false on this one.

Is an idol greater than Michael the Archangel for example? Because idols are called theos, and Michael is called an angel. This you cannot deny, so why don't you argue this if you truly believe your own interpretation of my words.

See how easy I have exposed your thinking? You are not obviously worthy to judge such things in my opinion because you are either twisting my words or you lack enough understanding to clearly say what is being said.

February 7, 2011 at 4:15 am#235543

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 25 2011,05:48)

So Jesus is not telling the truth when he said…

…”ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH”.Matt 28:18

Ha ha ha.

Can you not see it.

It is GIVEN to him.

Who is greater, the giver or the receiver?

If Jesus receives this authority, then who is it that gives it to him? A clue, he must be greater.

Can you answer, “God”? If not, then your doctrine is getting in the way of truth and you need to repent if relying on your own understanding..

February 7, 2011 at 4:21 am#235544

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 25 2011,05:48)

And your point is? The Father does not speak apart from the Son does he? Heb 1:1.

“Truly, truly I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner”

The preceding verse even says:

For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

No Trinity here WJ. Fail.

February 7, 2011 at 7:16 am#235548

shimmer

Participant

WJ,

Jesus is Given power for a while…does this makes him God?
Then was Joseph Pharoah for a while? No!

One cannot become THE Pharoah while THE Pharoah still lives.
One cannot become THE Almighty God while THE Almighty God still lives…and since He never dies then there never is another, ever!

BUT, one CAN deputise for God, as Jesus does, and one could deputise for Pharoah, as Joseph did but note carefully that neither sits ON the THRONE of the one being deputised for (ON, here, means owning that position. IN means holding that position, only, just as Haman did not OWN the seal of the King but only held it for the purpose of carrying out his deputisation duty)

The throne belongs to the Father, and the father alone. Then Jesus is 'GRANTED' to sit 'At the Right Hand' of his Father, of his God for a while. If Jesus is God, how does he not already sit ON the throne, how is he not owning the throne, but only Granted to sit there…for a while?

Passing by Jude 1:1… Does Jude not make a clear distinction between God the Father, and Jesus Christ. At no time does Jude say that Jesus is God but he openly, plainly and clearly…states that the Father is God.

This was posted in another thread by accident, so I have reposted it.

February 7, 2011 at 10:40 am#235551

Baker

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 06 2011,13:23)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,07:13)

Ha Ha Mike

Hi WJ,

Ed! I like that. That is the trinity, a doctrine of a man called Quintus Septimus Florence Tertullian. He lived in the third century….When after three centuries Constantine allowed all Christians the freedom to practice their religion. It is also at that time when Tertullian came up with the trinity….And Constantine made it the Law. He also changed Gods Calendar into the Roman Calendar, and made Sunday the day of worship rather then the Sabbath…. Just remember that the Sabbath is a perpetual Covenant that God made with the Children of Israel…

Exd 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.

Exd 31:17 It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

This is why IMO the sabbath never was a commandment for us Gentiles…

And also I would not go by Roberstons word……just another man like Tertullian….
Peace Irene

February 7, 2011 at 6:22 pm#235571

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 05 2011,21:23)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,07:13)

Ha Ha Mike

Hi WJ,

(Jeremiah 15:5..7) Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and
maketh flesh his arm. Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD.

That is a good scripture. So do you “Trust” in Jesus or not?

By the way does your post imply that we should not trust your teachings?

February 7, 2011 at 6:25 pm#235572

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 06 2011,22:21)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 25 2011,05:48)

And your point is? The Father does not speak apart from the Son does he? Heb 1:1.

“Truly, truly I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner”

The preceding verse even says:

For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

No Trinity here WJ. Fail.

Look Again t8.

Jesus “sees” what the Father does and “He does it”.

Can you make that claim, that whatever the Father does you can do?

Also thanks for quoting Johns commentary telling us that Jesus is claiming to be equal to the Father. Of course if he can do whatever he sees the Father do then that means he is equal.

February 7, 2011 at 6:45 pm#235573

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2011,12:08)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,09:42)

What does “One Lord” or “Only Master” mean to you Mike?

It means that they may have had slaves who had earthly masters but who was their “One Lord” and “One Master”?

Slaves, obey your human masters

Now you're getting my point. Do you see how “ONLY” doesn't necessarily literally mean “ONLY”?

Mike

That is simply wrong. “Only” means “Only”. Do you have more than “One Lord”? To you words do not mean anything it appears. You also said…

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2011,14:49)

No Keith, it is YOU who has “lost the debate” by insisting “only true God” must be taken literally.

Can you see the ludicrousness of your statement?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2011,12:08)

It is an emphatic way of claiming God as ABOVE all other masters. Just like I've tried to explain to you about “many who are called god, but only one God”.

So is Jesus your “Only” “One Lord” or “One Master” or not?

It’s a yes or no answer.

The scripture clearly tells us there is only “One Lord” for the believer. Once again I have shown you the literal Greek and how most translations translate Jude 1:4 but you reject it.

February 7, 2011 at 6:56 pm#235574

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 06 2011,22:15)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 25 2011,05:48)

So Jesus is not telling the truth when he said…

…”ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH”.Matt 28:18

Ha ha ha.

Can you not see it.

It is GIVEN to him.

Who is greater, the giver or the receiver?

If Jesus receives this authority, then who is it that gives it to him? A clue, he must be greater.

Can you answer, “God”? If not, then your doctrine is getting in the way of truth and you need to repent if relying on your own understanding..

HA HA

It is you that can't see it. If he has all authority and power then that means to us he sits in the active role as God for all things come to us from him. If he is not God to us then our relationship with him would be Idolatry for he stands between us and the Father.

Don't forget t8 that he was the Word that was with God and was God and then emptied himself and came in the likeness of sinful flesh.

So your point that he was “Given” all authority and power is a moot point because before time Jesus was there with the Father and “nothing came into being without him, Jesus“! How do you reconcile that with “God alone”, and “By himself” created all things?

t8 can anyone but God share his Glory? If not then explain how Jesus is “The radiance of his Glory” and how he sits in the Throne of God?

February 7, 2011 at 7:17 pm#235575

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 06 2011,22:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 25 2011,05:48)

Boy you sound upset. Of course I would say what? That “It “APPEARS”” here that satan is greater than Jesus”? I only quoted your own words…

You didn't quote my words, you added that one was 'greater' than the other when I make no such statement. You are clearly false on this one.

No, you are accusing me falsly. Look again, I said “

That “It “APPEARS”” here that satan is greater than Jesus”?

Do you see the “Big” question mark. Or will you continue to misrepresent me?

So let the reader decide for themselves for this is what you said…

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2011,05:11)

Jesus is not God.

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2011,05:04)

Satan is a God. He is the God of this age.

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2011,05:04)

Satan is still a God, the God of this age.

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 06 2011,22:12)

But that is why in the NT it translates it as “Angel” and not “God”. So again your point is moot because context determines how the words “Elohim” and “Theos” should be taken.

Paul said there is “No God but one” therefore all others are so-called gods, or judges or rulers or angels.

The problem you anti Jesus is God folks have is Jesus is fulfilling the “role of God” in every sense. To us he is God but to you he is apparantly some kind of dem-god.

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 06 2011,22:12)

See how easy I have exposed your thinking?

You are exposing your dishonesty t8, for I said “Appears” and you are ignoring that to make a false claim.

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 06 2011,22:12)

You are not obviously worthy to judge such things in my opinion because you are either twisting my words or you lack enough understanding to clearly say what is being said.

The ad hominems is useless and untrue. Let the readers decide.

You never did answer my “honest” and straight forward question…

Tell us t8, If to you satan is the God of this world then who is Jesus the God of?

February 7, 2011 at 10:46 pm#235595

KangarooJack

Participant

t8 said:

Quote

WJ replied:

Quote

But that is why in the NT it translates it as “Angel” and not “God”

February 7, 2011 at 11:22 pm#235602

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 08 2011,04:22)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 05 2011,21:23)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,07:13)

Ha Ha Mike

Hi WJ,

(Jeremiah 15:5..7) Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and
maketh flesh his arm. Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD.

That is a good scripture. So do you “Trust” in Jesus or not?

By the way does your post imply that we should not trust your teachings?

Hi WJ,

Jesus was more than just a mere man. (Luke 1:35 / John 1:35)
Both “Trinitarians” and “anti-Trinitarians” go to opposite extremes.

You should “Only” trust them if they align with Scripture. (Acts 17:11)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 7, 2011 at 11:32 pm#235603

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 08 2011,04:25)

Look Again t8.

Jesus “sees” what the Father does and “He does it”.

Can you make that claim, that whatever the Father does you can do?

Quote

Of course if he can do whatever he sees the Father do then that means he is equal.

Hi WJ,

Ed J “sees” what the Father says and “I say it”. (John 16:13,15)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 7, 2011 at 11:42 pm#235606

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 07 2011,17:32)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 08 2011,04:25)

Look Again t8.

Jesus “sees” what the Father does and “He does it”.

Can you make that claim, that whatever the Father does you can do?

Quote

Of course if he can do whatever he sees the Father do then that means he is equal.

Hi WJ,

Ed J “sees” what the Father says and “I say it”. (John 16:13,15)

But when you say it are you claiming they are your words?

Besides you sidetracked that Jesus said what he sees the Father do “He did it”. Can you make the claim that you can do whatever you see the Father do?

February 8, 2011 at 12:49 am#235614