- This topic has 461 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
Jodi
<h1>(V.17)he (Jésus)is before all things, and by him all things consist.</h1>
THAT IS THE TRUTHALLELOUIA
…all things were created BY(Di) him, and FOR(eiV) him:
THIS IS THE TRUTHAMEN
THE WORD WAS GOD…..
Through him.
God created the cosmos through the Son of God. God created all things through the Word. When Jesus returns he has a name, The Word of God.
Note the Word OF. Being of God means you are not God.
The Word was God? Read this:
…all things were created BY(Di) him, and FOR(eiV) him:
THIS IS THE TRUTHAMEN
THE WORD WAS GOD…..
Through him.
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
God created the cosmos through the Son of God. God created all things through the Word. When Jesus returns he has a name, The Word of God.
Note the word OF. Being of God means you are not God but you came from him. If I’m am from New Zealand, then I am not New Zealand.
The Word was God? Read this:
Proclaimer
Jesus (THE WORD) was GOD not in personnality but in infinity.
God THE FATHER IS God in personnality
About Jesus in Hebrews 1 de read
“Who being the brightness of his glory(of God the Father), and the express image of his person,”…
HERE IS WHO IS THE SON OF GOD
THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER AND THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON…
Berean…..So are we also God, after all scripturec says “in the “image” of God created he them, male and female created he them”.
So why do you think it’s just talking about Jesus alone then when it says he was the “image” of God?
As far as who created every thing it was God “alone and by himself that created everything in existence, need proof?
Isa 45:22 look unto “me’ AND BE SAVED, All you ends of the earth : “for I am God and the is “NO” OTHER”.
ISA 44:27……THUS SAYS THE LORD, (YEHOVAH) , thy redeemer, and he that formed you from the womb, I and the LORD, that makes “ALL” things, that streaches forth the heavens “ALONE” ; and spreads abroad the earth “BY MYSELF”.
You people never stop trying to move Jesus away from his human brothers and sisters. YOU ARE DOING THE VERY WORK OF Satan and don’t even realize it. 2THS2.
Peace and love to you and yours ………gene
Jodi…..Heb 2:6-8, is speaking of mankind in a general sense, which does also include Jesus, because Jesus is a son of man as we are, but Hebrew 2:9 is where it “specifically” starts to deal with Jesus himself, as another son of mankind.
I think you already know this, but not sure.
Peace and love to you and yours………..gene
Proclaimer……God never created anything through Jesus, nor any human being ever. God “alone and by himself” created everything that exists, and he alone and by “himself” saves mankind, and perfects mankind , “HIMSELF” , he does this “ALONE” even perfectin The “MAN” Jesus , “HIMSELF” AND HIMSELF “ALONE”, just exactly as he does us . “For it is God who works “in” you “both” to will and do of “HIS” GOOD PLEASURE., JUST AS HE DID IN THE “MAN” JESUS.
Just “one God ‘in’ all and “through” ALL. …..THE MAN JESUS DID NOT “PREXIST” his birth on this earth Proclaimer. You or no one else has produced “ANY” EVIDENCE OF ANY ACTIVITY OF HIM , found anywhere in our scriptures , nothing at all.
Isa 44:27…..Shows “clearly” God the Father did it “ALONE” and “BY HIMSELF”.
BUT AT LEAST you do believe there is only one God, that is a big acknowledgement in the sea of confusion that now exist in SO-CALLED Christanity, that has been Hannered with one lie after another from Satan for the last 2000 years. But the time is at hand when our lord and brother Jesus, will return and put all thing in order, the fort thing he will destory is the lie about him being A God. 2THS2.
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Hi Gene,
YOU: Jodi…..Heb 2:6-8, is speaking of mankind in a general sense, which does also include Jesus, because Jesus is a son of man as we are, but Hebrew 2:9 is where it “specifically” starts to deal with Jesus himself, as another son of mankind.
I think you already know this, but not sure.
ME:
Hi Gene, yes I understand the general sense as given below,
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Above is dominion of humans over the earth, but this is not what I see in Psalms 8/Hebrews 1,2, and elsewhere. In those passages the dominion concerns one man and is extended to a dominion over all of mankind and angels even. There is only one man to whom God visits being mindful of him in a very specific way, only one man made a king of kings and a lord of lords, given glory and honor “far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named”.
Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
below quotes Psalm 8,
Hebrews 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
My understanding is that when Jesus was anointed with the Spirit and power and sent to do God’s will, he could be compared to the angels, he was made like them. We read throughout the OT angels being sent having powers of the Spirit where they obey God as they perform His will.
Jesus told us that in the resurrection we will be like the angels, no longer able to die anymore, this is because God’s Spirit is upon us causing us to walk in all of God’s ways. Jesus was made like the angels but lower in the fact that he remained mortal, his purpose was to obey God going to the cross even though he was not worthy of death.
Hi to all
One of the reasons there seems to be a contradiction between the Old and the New Testament concerning God the creator by himself (OT) and God the creator through his Son (NT) is that in the OT only God is mentioned as the source of all lives.
This thought was to be engraved in people’s minds: There is only one true God, and that is Jehovah. God’s people were still unfamiliar with the fact that God has an Only Begotten Son (few mentions are given in the OT about the Son … and not without reason, although all sacrificial ceremonies were geared towards the Son. The Mashiah, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world)
Paul will say to the Corinthians about this:
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
[6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things …….When the Son of God was manifested in the flesh, and had accomplished all things, and that the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the disciples, the light on the creator God was broadened, since on many occasions God will say by the mouth of Paul THAT HE CREATED ALL THINGS BY HIS SON (Colossians, Corinthians and Hebrews)
…. and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (Corinthians) ….
all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. (Colossians)Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;(Hebrews)
This is what I can say about it
God bless you.
excuse my clumsy expressions (I am French and I do not have a good command of the English language)Berean…..the Greek word “dia” does not mean the same as the English word by means, in the Greek it means “for the Sake of”. Jesus is the first of many to become exactly what God had in mind for his whole human creation, when he created the first man Adam.
God knew from the start that Adam would fail, because God had planned him to fail, God even put Satan there to speed up the failure, you may ask why would God do that?, because he wanted mankind to experience “Evil and Good” inorder to become more like him, “knowing good “and” evil. So he used Satan as a catlist, to speed up the action, just as a chemist uses a Catlist to speed up a reaction.
Had he not used Satan , mankind would have eventually fallen, but it may have taken ten times longer, for it to happen, now days it only takes just a few years for people to experience what’s good and what evil, so it requires far less time for us to understand it.
We can not know what Good is without knowing what Evil ism they explain eachother. Just like up explains down and visa versa. Right explains left and left explains right, get it?, we need both inorder to understand properly, so it is with good and evil.
God the Father knew exactly what he was doing from the very start of the human creation, it was not a hap chance Adam and Evil failed it was full well known by God when he created them they would, infact he planned it that way from the start, Satan was and is a tool God uses to further his plans for us all.
Mankind is the “Crown Jewel” of God the Fathers creation, we are above THE ANGELS, IN HIS CREATIVE PLANS. “Know you not you shall judge Angels”? , and again “unto which of the Angels has he put in subjection the world to come”. Are they not ministering spirits sent to minister to them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Heb 2:5…..”For unto the angels has he not put in subjection the world to come, where of we speak”.
Mankind is the highest level of “all” of God’s creation, there is no higher creation then mankind is. Heb 2 : 1-18, explains it all, for those who have the eyes to see and ears to hear.
Peace and love to you and yours………gene
Hi Berean,
YOU: Jodi
<h1>(V.17)he (Jésus)is before all things, and by him all things consist.</h1>
THAT IS THE TRUTHME:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Yes the verse is most certainly the glorious TRUTH!
But you don’t have the context right, and you misinterpret this verse because you completely disregard many passages which causes you to change the image of who the “he” is into a false image.
Berean, until you believe in what Isaiah 45 clearly teaches you as well as other passages, you will remain in darkness.
The truth that must be applied to Col 1,
YHVH our Lord the God of Israel, by Himself made all things, and He made humans in His own image, and He made the earth not in vain but for it to be inhabited. YHVH says not only that He made the heavens and the earth ALONE, but that there is no one else like Him, He alone is God. This YHVH promised to rest His Spirit upon the son of Jesse, call this Son of Man to righteousness, He promised to be a Father unto David’s Son. This son of Jesse and David was raised up in righteousness having YHVH direct all his ways for the purpose to have him be for a light, for this man to perform the oath that YVHV had promised from the beginning, this Son of Man would be a savior, he would deliver captives, justify us from all things. YHVH had likewise promised to MAKE him His firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth, a king of kings and a lord of lords, where he would sit upon his father David’s throne forevermore according to the flesh. As he was made into YHVH’s firstborn, a first begotten of the dead receiving as promised the Holy Spirit, he fulfilled YHVH’s WORD that YHVH promised before the world even began, eternal life. The people were witness to this WORD of YHVH made true in the flesh and it gave them faith in YHVH and His WORD that Jesus’s resurrection is their resurrection likewise. Faith that as he was raised receiving the promised Holy Spirit no longer able to return to corruption, that they too would be heirs of YHVH’s Spirit. Faith in Jesus’s words that we should be baptized as he was, and drink of the same cup that he drinks of, the ONE SPIRIT.
You want to separate Paul’s words in Colossians 1, to be speaking of different things, when he is most certainly not.
12 giving thanks to the Father, who has enabled you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has rescued us from the power of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. 15 He IS the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers—all things have been created through him and FOR him. 17 He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that HE MIGHT COME TO HAVE FIRST PLACE IN EVERYTHING. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross. 21 And you who were once estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22 he has NOW reconciled in his fleshly body through death, so as to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him—
Berean, as I said YHVH is not an author of confusion, contradiction, nor lies.
If YHVH tells you that He made all things ALONE, by HIMSELF and He did if for earth to be inhabited where we read that a man is to sit on his father David’s throne on earth according to the flesh being a Son of God according to the Spirit of which he received according to a promise when he was raised from the dead, than WHEN YHVH was making all things ALONE, BY HIMSELF, He was doing so FOR this man.
YHVH when making the earth ALONE, He made it by reason of and for this man “so that HE MIGHT COME TO HAVE FIRST PLACE IN EVERYTHING”.
Jesus didn’t pre-exist and make all things FOR himself.
Jodi
You
Jesus didn’t pre-exist and make all things FOR himself.
Me
all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things Colossians 1:16,17King James Bible IS right
You not Jodi
Berean,
There is no contradiction for me at all, everything is clear, the OT and NT align most beautifully together, so when you try to explain that there “seems to be a contradiction” and then go about trying to explain it, such a cause and that which you explain, is nonsense to me.
Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Berean, Jesus said “he” not “I”.
Likewise, it was this “he” not Jesus, who was speaking in the beginning.
Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Berean, YHVH our Lord God of Israel, has taught you that He created all things by himself/alone, and Jesus likewise tells you that this God was he who in the beginning created creation.
16 for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things have been created through him and for him.
Berean, Jesus didn’t create all things FOR himself. YHVH created all things FOR Jesus.
Let’s apply facts,
for in Jesus all things in heaven and on earth were created by YHVH ALONE, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things have been created by reason of Jesus and for Jesus.
Berean, Jesus didn’t create the throne of David, YHVH did knowing from the beginning that He created it by reason of and for Jesus to eternally inherit and sit upon it according to the flesh.
Hi Berean,
Everything aligns perfectly, that which was spoken by YHVH in the OT, that which was promised by YHVH in the OT we see as fulfilled in the NT, or affirmed in the NT to still be accomplished in the future.
BEREAN PLEASE READ through these passages and that which I point out as to what they clearly teach. Then PLEASE RESPOND specifically.
Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Col 1:16 for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things have been created through him and for him.
2 Samuel 3:9 So do God to Abner, and more also, except, as the LORD hath sworn to David, even so I do to him; 10 To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beersheba.
1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will establish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Berean, do you see now, that by applying these passages together how Paul could not possibly be telling us in Colossians 1 that Jesus pre-existed and created all things including thrones and dominions?
Paul tells us exactly that which YHVH declared in the OT, that He alone created all things, and He did it not in vain. YHVH created earth to be inhabited. He created man in His own image. He did not create David’s throne in vain, He did so IN the name of Jesus, He did so by reason of Jesus and for Jesus.
Hi Gene,
YOU: Proclaimer……God never created anything through Jesus,
ME: WHAT IS GOD Gene?
YOU: he alone and by “himself” saves mankind,
PURE LIES,
READ THE TRUTH:
John3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world,
but that the world may be saved by him.
YOU:and perfects mankind , “HIMSELF” , he does this “ALONE” even perfectin The “MAN” Jesus ,
PURE LIES
Read scripture Gene,
John 5:36 But I have a greater testimony than that of John:
for the works which the Father hath given me
TO PERFECT;
the works themselves,
WHICH I DO.
give testimony of me, that the Father hath sent me.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth;
WHO Gene GLORIFIED THE FATHER ON EARTH?
WHY DIDN’T THE FATHER GLORIFY HIMSELF?
I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do
WHO Gene FINISHED THE WORK FOR THE FATHER ON EARTH?
WHY DIDN’T THE FATHER
FINISH HIMSELF THE WORK?
YOU: “For it is God who works “in” you “both” to will and do of “HIS” GOOD PLEASURE.,
READ MORE SCRIPTURE Gene,
5I am the vine; you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit:
for without Me you can do nothing.
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WITHOUT
OUR LORD GOD AND FATHER OF ALL
HUMANKIND.
JESUS CHRIST
Now Gene get this into your carnal mind that humans have
only one hope in
JESUS CHRIST
Read and accept the truth.
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known
the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles,
which is Christ,
in you the hope of glory.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Proclaimer
Jesus (THE WORD) was GOD not in personnality but in infinity.
God THE FATHER IS God in personnality
About Jesus in Hebrews 1 de read
“Who being the brightness of his glory(of God the Father), and the express image of his person,”…
HERE IS WHO IS THE SON OF GOD
THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER AND THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON…
You say that the “Jesus (THE WORD) was GOD not in personnality but in infinity.”.
Are you saying that he had the nature of God as opposed to being God?
Gene
Jodi
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him could be saved.
through him: dia autou
18
oti di autou ecomen thn prosagwghn oi amfoteroi en eni pneumati proV ton patera
2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.dia
dia
dee-ah ‘a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal, or occasional): – after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) … fore, from, in , by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general importance.
Note
The first application of “dia ” is:
Through(denoting the channel of an act;)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
