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Quote (JustAskin @ July 28 2010,10:14) wake up Nick. You used to make goid posts. What happened?
Hi JustAskin,What is a goid post?
Is that the kind 'you' make?Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi JA,
Folks should dig deep and lay their foundations on rock.
Instead they plant more weeds among the thorns.
Futility on futility for mostQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2010,14:28) Hello All, Does John 6:62 prove Jesus pre-existed? I say yes. What say you all?
62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
mike
Context Context ContextJohn 1:6, “There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.”
Where is God? In heaven? Was not John also sent from Heaven?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2010,14:28) Hello All, Does John 6:62 prove Jesus pre-existed? I say yes. What say you all?
62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
mike
Hi Mike:No, it does not prove that he preexisted as a sentient person.
Granted it is a little difficult to understand what Jesus meant by the scripture that you quote, but if you will read it in context you will understand.
First of all he said this:
Quote John 6:32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Quote John 6:51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. Quote John 6:56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him Quote John 6:62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
And so, bread of life that came down from heaven = words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life
And we know that his body was conceived of the Holy Ghost, and it was the Father who spoke through him (the bread of life = the words that he spoke that are spirit and are life), and the blood that he shed for us at calvary is the “drink indeed” to which he refers. “Eat his flesh and drink his blood”.
I hope that this will help you to understand.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (martian @ July 29 2010,08:57) John 1:6, “There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.” Where is God? In heaven? Was not John also sent from Heaven?
Hi Martian,I don't know what John 1:6 is suppose to prove or disprove. Is it your claim that John the Baptist wasn't sent from heaven? How do you know? God had a good deal to do with his mother getting pregnant too, right?
But that's besides the point anyway. The quote is about Jesus ascending to WHERE HE WAS BEFORE. How does your “context” make this null and void?
And just for added measure, John the Baptist said,
“This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, 42 because he existed before me.’”
We know John was born 6 months BEFORE Jesus was born. And Elizabeth was impregnated BEFORE Mary was, so in what sense did John think Jesus “existed before him”?
Please answer to both bolded points.
mike
Quote (942767 @ July 29 2010,09:46) And so, bread of life that came down from heaven = words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life
Hi Marty,So is it your contention that it was the “spirit” saying it would ascend to where it was before?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2010,14:28) Hello All, Does John 6:62 prove Jesus pre-existed? I say yes. What say you all?
62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
mike
Mikeboll64,
Nope!
barley
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2010,10:00) Quote (martian @ July 29 2010,08:57) John 1:6, “There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.” Where is God? In heaven? Was not John also sent from Heaven?
Hi Martian,I don't know what John 1:6 is suppose to prove or disprove. Is it your claim that John the Baptist wasn't sent from heaven? How do you know? God had a good deal to do with his mother getting pregnant too, right?
But that's besides the point anyway. The quote is about Jesus ascending to WHERE HE WAS BEFORE. How does your “context” make this null and void?
And just for added measure, John the Baptist said,
“This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, 42 because he existed before me.’”
We know John was born 6 months BEFORE Jesus was born. And Elizabeth was impregnated BEFORE Mary was, so in what sense did John think Jesus “existed before him”?
Please answer to both bolded points.
mike
Sorry got ahead of myself. Before I invest more time on this forum I need to ask you a question.
Mike,
Are you willing to follow these principles I have posted? If not then post some alternatives. If you will not tell me why? Do you not want to be careful with the text of scripture?meaning.
2. I considered the context both immediate and throughout all of scripture.
3. I studied the words in their original language.
4. I searched out any impact the Hebrew culture of the time might have.
5. I looked for any way that my conclusions might negatively impact the character of God or the mission of Christ.
6. (much like 5) I looked for fruit good or bad from my conclusions.
—AND FINALLY —
7. I researched what teachers and other students have said about these verses. (sometimes I find their words more clear and concise then mine and I use them)
Sometimes (depending on the subject) I even employ debate forums to see what other say.Quote (martian @ July 29 2010,10:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2010,10:00) Quote (martian @ July 29 2010,08:57) John 1:6, “There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.” Where is God? In heaven? Was not John also sent from Heaven?
Hi Martian,I don't know what John 1:6 is suppose to prove or disprove. Is it your claim that John the Baptist wasn't sent from heaven? How do you know? God had a good deal to do with his mother getting pregnant too, right?
But that's besides the point anyway. The quote is about Jesus ascending to WHERE HE WAS BEFORE. How does your “context” make this null and void?
And just for added measure, John the Baptist said,
“This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, 42 because he existed before me.’”
We know John was born 6 months BEFORE Jesus was born. And Elizabeth was impregnated BEFORE Mary was, so in what sense did John think Jesus “existed before him”?
Please answer to both bolded points.
mike
Sorry got ahead of myself. Before I invest more time on this forum I need to ask you a question.
Mike,
Are you willing to follow these principles I have posted? If not then post some alternatives. If you will not tell me why? Do you not want to be careful with the text of scripture?meaning.
2. I considered the context both immediate and throughout all of scripture.
3. I studied the words in their original language.
4. I searched out any impact the Hebrew culture of the time might have.
5. I looked for any way that my conclusions might negatively impact the character of God or the mission of Christ.
6. (much like 5) I looked for fruit good or bad from my conclusions.
—AND FINALLY —
7. I researched what teachers and other students have said about these verses. (sometimes I find their words more clear and concise then mine and I use them)
Sometimes (depending on the subject) I even employ debate forums to see what other say.
Martian,Mike's bolded questions are direct and you totally evaded them.
the Roo
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2010,10:02) Quote (942767 @ July 29 2010,09:46) And so, bread of life that came down from heaven = words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life
Hi Marty,So is it your contention that it was the “spirit” saying it would ascend to where it was before?
mike
Mike:He said that it was the Father that gave them the bread of life. Hebrew 1 states that the Father has spoken to humanity through His Son in these last days.
The words that he was speaking came from heaven, and we know also that his body was conceived by the Holy Ghost.
He existed in the heart of the Father from the very beginning. God knew that a particular point in time he would bring forth a Son to be the Saviour of His children. God made all things having forseen that He would fulfill his plan for humanity through Jesus.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 29 2010,11:12) Quote (martian @ July 29 2010,10:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2010,10:00) Quote (martian @ July 29 2010,08:57) John 1:6, “There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.” Where is God? In heaven? Was not John also sent from Heaven?
Hi Martian,I don't know what John 1:6 is suppose to prove or disprove. Is it your claim that John the Baptist wasn't sent from heaven? How do you know? God had a good deal to do with his mother getting pregnant too, right?
But that's besides the point anyway. The quote is about Jesus ascending to WHERE HE WAS BEFORE. How does your “context” make this null and void?
And just for added measure, John the Baptist said,
“This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, 42 because he existed before me.’”
We know John was born 6 months BEFORE Jesus was born. And Elizabeth was impregnated BEFORE Mary was, so in what sense did John think Jesus “existed before him”?
Please answer to both bolded points.
mike
Sorry got ahead of myself. Before I invest more time on this forum I need to ask you a question.
Mike,
Are you willing to follow these principles I have posted? If not then post some alternatives. If you will not tell me why? Do you not want to be careful with the text of scripture?meaning.
2. I considered the context both immediate and throughout all of scripture.
3. I studied the words in their original language.
4. I searched out any impact the Hebrew culture of the time might have.
5. I looked for any way that my conclusions might negatively impact the character of God or the mission of Christ.
6. (much like 5) I looked for fruit good or bad from my conclusions.
—AND FINALLY —
7. I researched what teachers and other students have said about these verses. (sometimes I find their words more clear and concise then mine and I use them)
Sometimes (depending on the subject) I even employ debate forums to see what other say.
Martian,Mike's bolded questions are direct and you totally evaded them.
the Roo
Roo,
I am interested in Truth and not doctrine. I want to know what kind of principles Mike (or you) are going to use for your conclusions. If we all agree to the same honest principles then the truth will become self evident and not just be a bunch of random opinions. Which do you want?Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 29 2010,11:12) Quote (martian @ July 29 2010,10:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2010,10:00) Quote (martian @ July 29 2010,08:57) John 1:6, “There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.” Where is God? In heaven? Was not John also sent from Heaven?
Hi Martian,I don't know what John 1:6 is suppose to prove or disprove. Is it your claim that John the Baptist wasn't sent from heaven? How do you know? God had a good deal to do with his mother getting pregnant too, right?
But that's besides the point anyway. The quote is about Jesus ascending to WHERE HE WAS BEFORE. How does your “context” make this null and void?
And just for added measure, John the Baptist said,
“This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, 42 because he existed before me.’”
We know John was born 6 months BEFORE Jesus was born. And Elizabeth was impregnated BEFORE Mary was, so in what sense did John think Jesus “existed before him”?
Please answer to both bolded points.
mike
Sorry got ahead of myself. Before I invest more time on this forum I need to ask you a question.
Mike,
Are you willing to follow these principles I have posted? If not then post some alternatives. If you will not tell me why? Do you not want to be careful with the text of scripture?meaning.
2. I considered the context both immediate and throughout all of scripture.
3. I studied the words in their original language.
4. I searched out any impact the Hebrew culture of the time might have.
5. I looked for any way that my conclusions might negatively impact the character of God or the mission of Christ.
6. (much like 5) I looked for fruit good or bad from my conclusions.
—AND FINALLY —
7. I researched what teachers and other students have said about these verses. (sometimes I find their words more clear and concise then mine and I use them)
Sometimes (depending on the subject) I even employ debate forums to see what other say.
Martian,Mike's bolded questions are direct and you totally evaded them.
the Roo
Roo,
I posted my suggestions for principles to follow. Why don't you post yours? Do you have any? I am willing to entertain suggestions.
Are you afraid to post honest principles or to follow them? Are you afraid that your doctrine will not stand the test?Hey Mike,
What process did you go through to determine if your conclusions about this verse were correct? After all it is not an original text from the first century and you are not living in that culture. How did you do it?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2010,10:34) Hi JA,
As soon as we share a basis we can dialogue.
But we have to debuild so much nonsense
Nick The one that writes a lot of nonesense is you…..How many times have I pointed you to the Word of God, in Rev. 19 and yet you still deny it, why?
IreneQuote (942767 @ July 29 2010,11:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2010,10:02) Quote (942767 @ July 29 2010,09:46) And so, bread of life that came down from heaven = words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life
Hi Marty,So is it your contention that it was the “spirit” saying it would ascend to where it was before?
mike
Mike:He said that it was the Father that gave them the bread of life. Hebrew 1 states that the Father has spoken to humanity through His Son in these last days.
The words that he was speaking came from heaven, and we know also that his body was conceived by the Holy Ghost.
He existed in the heart of the Father from the very beginning. God knew that a particular point in time he would bring forth a Son to be the Saviour of His children. God made all things having forseen that He would fulfill his plan for humanity through Jesus.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Mike:Quote 1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, ofthe Word of life;2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you thateternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
Quote John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2The same was in the beginning with God.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (martian @ July 29 2010,10:39) Sorry got ahead of myself. Before I invest more time on this forum I need to ask you a question.
Mike,
Are you willing to follow these principles I have posted? If not then post some alternatives. If you will not tell me why? Do you not want to be careful with the text of scripture?
Hi Martian,Look, I don't mean to be rude, but how I come by my understanding of a particular scripture is my business. I research the Greek or Hebrew words to the extent necessary. Now I read the words in John 6:62 just as they are written, and I even checked for alternate definitions to be sure.
If you bring up some evidence I haven't discovered, then I will surely look into it. But that doesn't mean I want to read pages and pages of conjecture by some mere man that I don't know anything about just because he happens to agree with your view.
This sentence is pretty straightforward, and there is nothing in context that I see that would make it mean something other than what it says.
So, go ahead and try to make it null and void. I'm waiting.
But before you start, please DIRECTLY answer the bolded two parts of my last post like I asked.
mike
Quote (barley @ July 29 2010,10:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2010,14:28) Hello All, Does John 6:62 prove Jesus pre-existed? I say yes. What say you all?
62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
mike
Mikeboll64,
Nope!
barley
Hi barley,Why not?
mike
Quote (942767 @ July 29 2010,11:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2010,10:02) Quote (942767 @ July 29 2010,09:46) And so, bread of life that came down from heaven = words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life
Hi Marty,So is it your contention that it was the “spirit” saying it would ascend to where it was before?
mike
Mike:He said that it was the Father that gave them the bread of life. Hebrew 1 states that the Father has spoken to humanity through His Son in these last days.
The words that he was speaking came from heaven, and we know also that his body was conceived by the Holy Ghost.
He existed in the heart of the Father from the very beginning. God knew that a particular point in time he would bring forth a Son to be the Saviour of His children. God made all things having forseen that He would fulfill his plan for humanity through Jesus.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,So is it your contention that it was the “spirit” saying it would ascend to where it was before?
mike
Quote (Arnold @ July 29 2010,11:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2010,10:34) Hi JA,
As soon as we share a basis we can dialogue.
But we have to debuild so much nonsense
Nick The one that writes a lot of nonesense is you…..How many times have I pointed you to the Word of God, in Rev. 19 and yet you still deny it, why? Irene
Hi Irene,You have a lot of trouble understanding “Rev.19:11-21” is talking about The “HolySpirit”; but I can help!
“Father: The Word“ = “HolySpirit“
Isaiah means: (YHVH=63) “Ya is Savior”
(Click Here)Isaiah 63:2-10 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel(Jer.4:30), and thy garments like him
that treadeth in the winefat? I (HolySpirit) have trodden the winepress alone (Rev.19:15);
and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample
them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments(Rev.19:13), and I will
stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine
own arm brought salvation unto me(Job.40:10-14); and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the
people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength(Ez.28:9) to
the earth. I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to
all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which
he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his loving-
kindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his
pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and
vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he(HolySpirit) fought against them.The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Irene) to understand now? (Mark 4:12)
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 27:4-5)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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