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Gene
You
Proclaimer you or they have not produced a single spicific scripture that says Jesus was alive before he was ever born on this earth.. if it is there please produce it, remember I said a single , “SPECIFIC” scripture that say that, says Jesus was alive before he was born on this earth. Not spinoffs, you can force to say that , but a simple “direct” written scripture.
Me
John 17
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
THIS verse show us That Before the World was, Jésus was ALIVE with God.
Jesus never said he was ever “alive before Abraham was”,
I’m guessing after reading these words of Jesus Christ, that you must be thinking that John incorrectly recorded them.
John 8:58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!“John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.John 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?John 1:15
John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.‘John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.John 16:28
I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.”John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man.The above are just some of what Jesus said as recorded by John. Imagine all the other words he has spoken that contradict your teaching? And if I was to quote Paul too, then you would have to spend you life writing long essays like Jodi to try and cover up the simple truth that is communicated clearly and concisely in these scriptures.
Proclaimer. … both Jodi and I have dealt with all those scriptures, as relating to both the old Testement and the new. You need to be like the Berean’s we search the scriptures, for the real truth, and believe what Jesus said, he was and is the root and offspring of King David.
You select scriptures then add words into them that meat your false understandings while at the same time not even mentioning the mountain of scripture that prove you wrong. Remember the Berean’s only had the “old Testement” to search for the truth, that’s what you people need to do and then you can see how the tritarian translators forced the text to say what in fact it is not saying.
But it seem you people have chose the broad way that leads to destruction, instead of the straight and narrow way that leads to life, WHERE, “few” there be that find it “. “SAD”.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Gene
You
You select the scriptures, then add words to them that fuel your misunderstandings while not even mentioning the mountain of scriptures that prove you wrong. Remember the Bereans only had the “Old Testament” to search for the truth, that’s what you have to do and then you can see how the Tritic translators forced the text to say what it didn’t say. not actually.
Me
It is you who refuses to reconsider your position on who Jesus Christ really is.
THE BIBLE SAY CLEARLY THAT
His name is called THE WORD OF GOD (REVELATION 19:13)
IN JOHN 1. 1 THE WORD.
THIS IS SIMPLY THE TRUTH.Berean and all…..read Rev 22:7-13, make a study of it, and tell me how many being are being descussed there. , Are there 1, 2, or 3.? LET’S go through it together slowly OK? SEENING Proclaimer hasen’t started a topic on it.
Verse 8…..Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keeps the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Let’s start with , verse 8 …..And I John saw these things, and heard them, And when I heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the “Angel ” which showed me these things.
Verse 9…. Then says he unto me , See you do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of “thy brethern” the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book, worship God.
Verse 10….And said unto me, seal not the sayings of the prophesy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Verse 12…. And, behold , I come quickly; and my reward is with me m to give every man according as his work shall be.
Verse 13….. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Verse 16…..I Jesus have sent my “angel” to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the “root and offspring” of DAVID, and the bright and morning star”.
So Berean , tell us how many ‘different being are being mentioned there, also please notice how the translators, made part of the text in red and the other parts in black print, they did that for a reason, can you tell us what that is?
This is a very interesting study and can explain a lot , for those who have eyes to see.
Peace and love to you all and yours. ………gene
Proclaimer,
it is you that is hard of hearing,
I asked you WHO IS JESUS RIGHT NOW?
He is a Son of Man who is God’s Son ACCORDING to the Spirit sitting at God’s right hand at this very moment in the image of the invisible God.
Right now the man who shed his blood IS a firstborn overall the Eternal Creation, which was exactly WHO Paul was speaking of in Colossians 1. Paul was speaking of Jesus as a firstborn according to ONLY ONE INSTANCE in that chapter, the instance that occurred AFTER he had shed his blood.
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who IS the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Proclaimer it’s obvious, Paul is speaking about the Kingdom of God that Jesus will rule, the kingdom that is in the Eternal New Earth to whom Jesus IS a firstborn of.
Paul isn’t going from speaking about the kingdom of the Eternal Creation, where we follow Jesus into a regeneration (NEW BIRTH), to tell us guess what, this man that had shed his blood was the first thing God had ever created. NO, Paul is speaking of the instance that occurred after Jesus shed his blood. Paul is telling us who Jesus was at that very moment Paul was writing to the Colossians, exactly who Jesus IS right now, a firstborn into God’s kingdom on the New Eternal Earth.
To All,
God’s WORD from the beginning was that a man would be given dominion overall that God had created ALONE, all by HIMSELF.
This man would be made a Son of God, this man would be made a firstborn, this man would be made into the invisible image of God through God’s Spirit being ALL IN him.
This man would be anointed above his brethren made a king higher than all kings. God made all things HIMSELF by reason of and for this man who would sit on an eternal throne according to the flesh.
God’s word from the beginning was that this man would execute God’s will. This man would be MADE perfect BECOMING our source for eternal life, so without this man nothing would have been made that was made. All things that God had made all by Himself consisted in this man as he would fulfill God’s word declared before the world began, eternal life.
Without eternal life, which God had promised, nothing would have been made that was made, so all things consisted in this man that would fulfill this word of God.
Jodi and Gene
As long as you deny the divinity of Christ, you cannot see the puzzle picture of truth in all its beauty and solemnity.
Berean……You haven’t answered my question of Rev 22: 7-10 , why is that? , are you afraid you might not have seen something there? Would like it to have it’s own thread, if we can. There are some very interesting things there that could be brought out. How trinitarian translator hid something about Jesus, and what he saidm See if you can find it. Who was the “ANGEL” OR MESSENGER there speaking , that told John not to “worship” him? What say you People?
Peaceand love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Gene,
YOU:JESUS WAS A MAN, who was “anointed” with the Holy Spirit of God, that is why he is call the CHRIST, THE “ANOINTED” ONE.
Answer Gene:
THERE ARE MANY ANOINTED
BUT ONLY JESUS
THE SON
OF MAN IS
CHRIST
WHY?
John4:25The woman saith to him:
I know that the Messias cometh (who is called Christ);
therefore, when HE IS COME,( from where Gene?)
he will tell us all things.
26Jesus saith to her:
I am he, who am speaking with thee.
I repeat Gene READ:
John4:25The woman saith to him:
I know that the Messias cometh (who is called Christ);
therefore, when HE IS COME,…….
ME: from where Gene?
John8:42 Jesus therefore said to them:
If God were your Father,
you would indeed love me.
For from God
I PROCEEDED
and came;
for I came not of myself, (NOT OF MY OWN SPIRIT)
but he sent me:(OF HIS OWN SUBSTANCE Hebrews 1:3)
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Proclaimer,
it is you that is hard of hearing,
I asked you WHO IS JESUS RIGHT NOW?
He is the Messiah, the Lord, the Son of the living God, and the Word of God.
You believe his name is Jesus and therefore you recognize that he is Jesus.
His name is the Word of God too.
Therefore he is also ___________________?
John 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?Jodi 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he HADN’T BEEN before?Gene
the messenger, angel who forbids John to worship him is certainly Gabriel … but his name is not mentioned in the book of Revelation. In Daniel, it was Gabriel who was sent to teach Daniel. Mary, mother of Jesus had a visit from the angel Gabriel before she became pregnant … Joseph also.
Proclaimer and Berean……Good, you guys at least read it, but you again are wrong, it was Jesus talking to him all the way through, trinitarians wanted to make it appear as through it switched to a different person, from Rev 22 verse 7 then switch at verse 8-11 and back again to Jesus in verse 12 and 13.
Why you might ask, because how would it look if it was Jesus himself telling him not to worship him but worship God. So they colored the text, like a shell game, to disguise the truth. That the messenger was Jesus himself saying, not to worship him, but only GOD the Father.
Go to Rev 1:1….. what do we read there,
The “revelation of Jesus Christ”, which “GOD”, gave unto him, to show unto his “servants” things which must shortly come to pass; and he (God) sent and signified it, buy his angel (messenger) unto his servant John. God’s “messenger” was Jesus christ.
He (John) was the one who bare record of the word of God, and also the “testimony” of Jesus Christ, and of all the things that he (John) saw.
So what does that say?, it says that, God gave it to his servant Jesus, the revelation, and he gave it to another servant (John), and also Jesus ‘ own testimony, which John gave to the Churches .
What’s the point?, the point is there was no “Angel” being there, it was “the messenger from God the Father, Jesus Christ himself was the messenger who was speaking to John and giving him God the Fathers words and also his own testimony. Directly , not through a third party “angelic” being?
The same thing applies to Rev 22: 7-13.
So I offer this as proof that Jesus himself was the one who said not to worship him, but worship GOD.
Peace and love to you all and yours……….gene
Gene
THIS IS not Jésus WHO do not want That WE worship HIM, THIS IS the angel.
You incriminate the translation of the Bible to defend your position “anti Christ”.
Christ is worthy of worship, he was worshiped as a baby because he is God.
Hebrews 1
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Berean……that messenger of God was Jesus Christ himself. Notice he even said , in Rev 22: 9, he was “of thy “brethern” , the Prophets, , who do you know was prophesied to be “of thy brethern , and a prophet? , it certainly was no Angel. It was Jesus christ himself.
The are about 3 or 4 scriptures that says Jesus was of your “brethern”, and he also was a “prophet”.
Acts 3:22 , “For Moses truly said unto the fathers, “a prophet” shall the Lord you God raise up unto you of (from) “your brethern” like unto me; him shall you hear in all thing whatsoever he shall say unto you.”
That’s repeated about 4 times in scriptures Berean, now go back and apply that to, Rev 22: 9.
ALSO NOTICE that it is the same person Speaking in verse 7, that verse 9 , starts with, because it say “then” says he unto me”. that was the same person speaking in verse 7. The same person was speaking all the way through from verse 7 all the way to verse 22, it was Jesus talking to John. There was no angelic “being” there, there was God’s Messenger Jesus Christ speaking to John only.
Do you see that Berean, or does anyone else following this?
Peace and love to you all and yours. …………gene
ALL FALSE GENE
READ WELL
REVELATION 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.
THE ANGEL SENT BY JESUS OR JESUS ?
WHO DO NOT WANT TO BE WORSHIPED IN REVELATION 22 in particular?
LET’S SEE THE TEXT
WE START WITH CHAPTER 21
REVELATION 21
[9] And there came unto me ONE of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me(John), saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.
[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
[11] Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
[12] And had a wall great and high, ….continuation of the description of the holy city until the end of chapter 21
REVELATION 22
[1] And he(the angel of ch.21 :9) shewed me(John) a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
[2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
[3] And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
[4] And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
[5] And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.[6] And he(the angel) said unto me(John), These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
[7] Behold, I come quickly:(Jesus) blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
[8] And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.[9] Then saith he(the angel) unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
[10] And he(yhe angel) saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
[11] He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
[12] And, behold, I (Jesus)come quickly; and my reward is with me(Jesus), to give every man according as his work shall be.
[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.(JESUS)
[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
[17] And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
[18] For I testify(JESUS) unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
[19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
[20] He which testifieth(JESUS) these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
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