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DavidL,
Yet who is there that can say, “I and the Father are One.” ..?
Jesus also said “that they may be one, even as we are one” in John 17:22
Princess,you say to David L,
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.that means you David.
Do you believe in Jesus princess?,or do you believe in this statement from St.Johns gospel? if so this applies to you too! and everyone here! Do you do greater works? say yes and I’ll call you a liar.
So who’s a real believer in Jesus? you? or me? I’d say nobody here really is! unless one wants to give some lame dispensational reason that we can save souls by our preaching which Jesus couldn’t do because he was under the law and we are not.
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Hi Andrew,
True believers in the time of the apostles obeyed the command to repent, be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ and to be reborn from above. Nothing has changed.
That is all God asks of us and the rest is in His hands.
We will see what He has used us for when we go before the tribunal of Christ[2Cor 5.10]but it will not be by our striving.
Hi Andrew,
Everything is about God and by His Spirit.
We are offered the privilege of being involved in this victory.
All good Nick but do you do greater works than Christ? Paul may have claimed to and Joseph Smith too but what about you?
Was princess right to use this scripture against David? or does it really show what kind of hypocrite or fool she,me,you and everyone else really is?
DavidL,
“Before Abraham was born, I AM.”…?
Experts argue over this line. I assume you have for your own reasons picked these experts.
Your version is bad English translated from good Koine Greek. If the translators were consistent in this type of translation I would believe it was their dialect. As it is their choices make it look like they are unaware of correct English tense uses in this one passage while being skilled in other ones.
In proper English it is “I have been since before Abraham was born”. The comma at the end as the translators put it is a comma splice and since they are educational elites they know that. The New world has the “I have been” correct but the translator of it also uses the comma splice.
These so called biased translators tortured English in order to get a obscure reference to Old Testament words out of it. Instead they should have did their job correctly and let the readers of Scripture hear the word in language that is easier to understand.
Enough of that.
John 8:58Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.
Abraham was both made by God and was made the father of the Hebrews and others by God.
Jesus has been the Christ since before the world was created even though God made him in Mary’s inner parts.
Jesus is the Christ and God spoke of him to Eve even during in the words of the curse he laid on her.
Kerwin
Jesus also said “that they may be one, even as we are one” in John 17:22
Yes, this is the same argument t8 has hijacked (probably off the JW’s or some other cult), that Jesus wants His followers to have the same kind of unity as He had with the Father…
but by saying this you are implying that the unity of Jesus with the Father (when He said, “I and the Father are One.”) was merely ‘spiritual’… so if this is true and Jesus, as you say, was just a man used by the Spirit of God and nothing more – then others also should be able to say these same things He said…
But who was there EVER who could say…”I and the Father are One.”…???
Is this something YOU could say…???
What spirit-filled believer could EVER say…”Before Abraham was born, I AM.”…???
What prophet, priest, or apostle of Christ would dare to say…”If you have seen Me you have seen the Father.”…???
This is my question.
I should point out that these same verses you use out of context to try and DENY the oneness of Father and Son, actually CONFIRM their Oneness…
read it again…”that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.”..
Read it in the context of Jesus’ own words – “I and the Father are One.”
You keep quoting what the Spirit said through Jesus.
so Mr spiritual, does the Spirit say the same thing through you…??
What other ‘man’ did the Spirit say these things through…???
Hi davidl,
Natural men often become worshipers of man.
Rom1.18
“For the wrath of God is revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness because that which is known about God is evident within them;for God made it evident to them.
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen so they are without excuse. For even though they knew God they did not honour Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing to be wise they became fools and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of curruptible man and of birds and four footed animals and crawling creatures”
It is all about God.
Hi Davidl,
If you were not so confused about the nature of God you would find understanding these things so much easier.
Hi Davidl,
Has the Spirit never reminded you of the words of Jesus or given you an insight when you needed it?
Has you not been given peace and joy yet?
If you know the truth then it should not be hard to defend or explain…yet, as per usual, you cannot answer my question – do you have an answer..?
What man – no matter how anointed or spiritual, could EVER say the things Christ said….????
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