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Oh, gotcha.
Maybe in the future sometime when I'm interested in debating again. Not now, though. It all seems so useless right now.
Have a good night,
MandyQuote Oh, gotcha. Maybe in the future sometime when I'm interested in debating again. Not now, though. It all seems so useless right now.
Have a good night,
MandyGood night Mandy.
Mandy, how will I know you actually see the scripture?
Quote (david @ Sep. 23 2008,19:02) Quote Oh, gotcha. Maybe in the future sometime when I'm interested in debating again. Not now, though. It all seems so useless right now.
Have a good night,
MandyGood night Mandy.
Mandy, how will I know you actually see the scripture?
I see it, David. I read a lot here (tons of back posts).I think what you really mean to ask is, “How will you know if I've understood the scripture correctly or not?”. Meaning, how YOU would define the written Word.
I just don't think God can be defined anymore. We try, but we fail.
I still enjoy reading various definitions though. It's interesting how folks pound-out their reasoning and how they convince themselves. I appreciate every view because I've come to beileve that there is not just ONE VIEW (which is where you and I part, David.)
Take care bro (that is, if you consider me your sister? I realize that some even have criteria for that.),
MandyHi Nick,
For some reason your comment made me think of the movie Braveheart. Have you ever seen it? One of my favorite movies! Anyway, they were fighting a war and an arrow went through a shield!! I guess it can happen.I haven't heard from God in a long time, Nick. I'm listening but not hearing anything. Maybe God doesn't do well with the hard questions either? Pray for me.
Love,
MandyHi Mandy,
I am not a movie buff as reality is enough.
But the breastplate of the righteousness of Christ
and the shield of faith …in him, His Father, the Word and the brothers, is needed.Hi Mandy,
Satan can only pull you down if he makes you think you have something to lose.
We are poor wretches, hopeless servants and we have nothing useful to offer God.Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 23 2008,19:00) Oh, gotcha. Maybe in the future sometime when I'm interested in debating again. Not now, though. It all seems so useless right now.
Have a good night,
Mandy
Useless or too challenging?Quote (charity @ Sep. 23 2008,17:35) Pro 8:1¶Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.
Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice [is] to the sons of man.For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.when he created a new thing a compass
Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:perhaps Mary did more for Jesus, than what meets the eye.
I would say that this is probably so. Jesus was discipled by his Heavenly Father, but his mother and earthly father would surely have had a huge impact in his life. I know that my mother had a huge impact in my life. A lot of what I am today is because of her.As for wisdom, you rightly talk of wisdom as a characteristic or quality.
Just as truth is also a quality or characteristic, Jesus said “I am the truth”. In the same way he is wisdom. Of course Jesus being the Truth and Wisdom, doesn't negate the fact that these are still attributes of God.
Tatian put it like this around (165 A.D):
And by His simple will the Word sprang forth, and the Word, not coming forth in vain, became the firstbegotten work of the Father . Him [the Word] we know to be the Beginning of the world (cf. Rev. 3:14). But He came into being by participation, not by cutting off, for what is cut off is separated from the original substance, but that which comes by participation, making its choice of function, does not render him deficient from whom it is taken. For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him.Quote (t8 @ Sep. 24 2008,10:20) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 23 2008,19:00) Oh, gotcha. Maybe in the future sometime when I'm interested in debating again. Not now, though. It all seems so useless right now.
Have a good night,
Mandy
Useless or too challenging?
Both!Useless because the arguments have no end and no solution/resolution/agreement among any.
Challenging because we are using documents that have been tampered with. How can we know for sure which parts are solid and which parts have been built upon by other's?
I've been studying for nearly 5 years now – believe me there is nothing presented here that is new (except for Kathi's ideas surrounding Jesus being the begotten God and her theories there – those are unique and interesting.) The rest has been argued to death. Quite frankly, to re-hash it over and over again has become a bit of a bore. But I do enjoy the other things this site has to offer. Thanks, t8.
Mandy
Jesus said “Before Abraham, I am” when asked if he was older than Abraham.
That is why I said is it challenging because these are not my words but Jesus own words.
You are free to disagree of course, but who are you really disagreeing with?
Quote Mandy, how will I know you actually see the scripture? –david
Quote I see it, David. –Mandy
Do you mandy?
Which parts do you see? What does it say?
As I've asked:
Quote Just type out the scripture. Word for word if you like, or paraphrase or type it out in your own words. Here's the thing mandy. I really truly believe you can't see certain phrases in this scripture. I really truly believe if you typed it out as you understand it, you'd have to omitt certain things.
A few times I simply asked you to type out what the scripture says.
You kept asking what I meant, as though there was some hidden meaning behind it. I feel I could not have been more clear. I don't want to simply abandon you. I just want to know what you can and cannot see.
david
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 24 2008,15:06) Jesus said “Before Abraham, I am” when asked if he was older than Abraham. That is why I said is it challenging because these are not my words but Jesus own words.
You are free to disagree of course, but who are you really disagreeing with?
Jesus' words?Really?
Are you sure? Can you be sure? Were you there when the manuscripts were originally penned?
Quote (david @ Sep. 24 2008,18:25) You kept asking what I meant, as though there was some hidden meaning behind it. I feel I could not have been more clear.
I didn't have a clue what you were talking about so it couldn't have been that clear, bro.
At any rate, I appreciate your concern but I'm OK for now. I've written out scriptures till I'm blue, David. I know what they say.
Take care,
MandyQuote On the other hand, a person who had existed as God prior to being born a puny man (and then also having the knowledge that he would return to God) could humble himself for a time but would it really be humbling himself? Or just a temporary inconvenience? –Mandy.
Mandy, you asked this question. I think it deserves some thought.
Humble:
“1. To bring low; to reduce the power, independence, or exaltation of; to lower; to abase; to humilate.”
“2. To make humble or lowly in mind; to abase the pride or arrogance of; to reduce the self-sufficiently of; to make meek and submissive;”
http://www.dictionary.net/humbleIt's true that it was temporary. But, it definitely was an act of the greatest humility to go from HIS heavenly exalted position, to being a man who was unjustly tried and executed as a criminal.
On the evening before his death, Jesus girded himself with a towel and washed and dried the feet of each of his 12 apostles, a service customarily performed by menials and slaves. (Joh 13:2-5, 12-17) He had told his disciples: “Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.” (Mt 23:12; Lu 14:11)
Jesus’ own words as to the reward of humility are powerfully proved true in his own case, as the apostle goes on to say: “For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name.”—Php 2:5-11.
Jesus Christ said of himself: “I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart.” (Mt 11:29) When he presented himself to the people of Jerusalem as their King, he fulfilled the prophecy that said of him: “Look! Your king himself comes to you. He is righteous, yes, saved; HUMBLE, and riding upon an ass, even upon a full-grown animal the son of a she-ass.” (Zec 9:9; Joh 12:12-16)
Everything I see tells me that to go from being the second in all the universe, in heaven, to being a human (even if only temporary) would take great humility.
We don't even have to go that far. A much less drastic example would prove the point.Take the president of any country or the queen of England or any Monarch (any non-spirit creature who really has no real lasting power/knowledge/anthing compared to Jesus in heaven) and try to picture them deciding to STEP DOWN, and put aside their comfort and die for their people.
Humility isn't even the right word. It would be something far beyond humility. But Jesus example is much more extreme. (True, temporary.) Yet, no definition of humility will tell you that there is a time limit on bringing yourself low.
As far as I can tell YES, IT WOULD BE HUMBLING HIMSELF, TO DO WHAT HE DID.
Quote At any rate, I appreciate your concern but I'm OK for now. I've written out scriptures till I'm blue, David. I know what they say. Could you copy and paste it from here:
(It would take like 14 seconds, I think. Maybe 12.)
Mandy! You are certainly making me sad. I think when t8 says what He did, you simple take the easy way out, which IMO is not the right road to take. It is not that hard to see, just open your mind, don't block it.
What about Rev. 3:14 Said the Amen the True Witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.
What about Col. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN OVER ALL CREATION.VERSE 16 For by Him all things were created,……..
VERSE 17 AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS……
Now, if you do not have the Faith in what is written here, I don't think any of us can help you.Peace and Love Irene
That's exactly the problem, Irene. I'm losing faith in “what is written”. Not losing faith in God, but in the written Word (not to be confused with the living Word).
That's why I say it's useless and challenging to debate it any further.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 24 2008,10:21) Quote (charity @ Sep. 23 2008,17:35) Pro 8:1¶Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.
Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice [is] to the sons of man.For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.when he created a new thing a compass
Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:perhaps Mary did more for Jesus, than what meets the eye.
I would say that this is probably so. Jesus was discipled by his Heavenly Father, but his mother and earthly father would surely have had a huge impact in his life. I know that my mother had a huge impact in my life. A lot of what I am today is because of her.As for wisdom, you rightly talk of wisdom as a characteristic or quality.
Just as truth is also a quality or characteristic, Jesus said “I am the truth”. In the same way he is wisdom. Of course Jesus being the Truth and Wisdom, doesn't negate the fact that these are still attributes of God.
Tatian put it like this around (165 A.D):
And by His simple will the Word sprang forth, and the Word, not coming forth in vain, became the firstbegotten work of the Father . Him [the Word] we know to be the Beginning of the world (cf. Rev. 3:14). But He came into being by participation, not by cutting off, for what is cut off is separated from the original substance, but that which comes by participation, making its choice of function, does not render him deficient from whom it is taken. For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him. I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I have ever known.
–Walt DisneyI guess straight after he said that! he tucked Micky in and went home to no Dinner, went to sleep and got up a created Mini -charity
Luv ya t8
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