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Quote (jammin @ April 17 2012,07:17)
yes kerwin if you sin.. and if you dont know the true GOD.
Jammin,Demons know the true God and yet sin; knowing destruction awaits them.
Jesus stated any one that sins is a servant of sin and that he will truly set them free from sin.
If the teaching you adhere to, is not designed to set you truly free from serving sin; then it is false.
For the Word is powerful and active.
Quote (jammin @ April 17 2012,18:31) could you pls answer first my question what is the connection of your post to the topic?
jammit,Surely you are not addressing me, right?
Frank,
Do you agree with all the words of those you post? It is not the soul that sleeps but the body; that rests in the dust of the ground. Jesus was also speaking of the body when he spoke of the sleep of death.
Job 17
New American Standard Bible (NASB)13 “If I look for Sheol as my home,
I [g]make my bed in the darkness;
14 If I call to the pit, ‘You are my father’;
To the worm, ‘my mother and my sister’;
15 Where now is my hope?
And who regards my hope?
16 “[h]Will it go down with me to Sheol?
Shall we together go down into the dust?”g) Job 17:13 Lit spread out
h) Job 17:16 So the Gr; Heb possibly Let my limbs sink down to Sheol, since there is rest in the dust for allDaniel 12
New American Standard Bible (NASB)13 But as for you, go your way to the [n]end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the [o]age.”
n) Daniel 12:13 I.e. end of your life
o) Daniel 12:13 Lit daysThe souls of the dead dwell in Sheol; just as it is written:
Psalm 16:10
New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 For You will not abandon my soul to [a]Sheol;
Nor will You allow Your [c]Holy One to [d]undergo decay.
Footnotes:Psalm 16:10 I.e. the nether world
Psalm 16:10 Lit give
Psalm 16:10 Or godly one
Psalm 16:10 Or see corruption or the pitand
Psalm 30:3
New American Standard Bible (NASB)3 O LORD, You have brought up my soul from [a]Sheol;
You have kept me alive, that I would not go down to the pit.
Footnotes:Psalm 30:3 I.e. the nether world
Psalm 30:3 Some mss read from among those who go downand
Psalm 49:15
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 But God will redeem my soul from the [a]power of Sheol,
For He will receive me.
Selah.
Footnotes:Psalm 49:15 Lit hand
It is the body that sleeps and the soul that enters Hades; except those that enter Sheol while still alive.
Hi KW
You say
“Do you agree with all the words of those you post? It is not the soul that sleeps but the body; that rests in the dust of the ground”The old body corrupts and returns to DUST.
Hi,
From the point of view of earth those who die in Christ are asleep.Men do not awake from death but the dead in Christ shall do so and shall rise again in new bodies.
These have truly died just as Jesus and Abraham and Isaac and Jacob did but are alive in the Spirit of Christ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,03:54) Hi KW
You say
“Do you agree with all the words of those you post? It is not the soul that sleeps but the body; that rests in the dust of the ground”The old body corrupts and returns to DUST.
Nick,The consciousness(soul) departs from the body with death. What is sleep but an altered consciousness.
Since I believe in a bodily resurrection “I believe there is rest in the dust for all”, including Daniel.
That rest is only for the body; for the soul,which is of spirit and not dust, enters Sheol.
The body returns to dust as it rests; just as God cursed it to do.
Hi KW,
Yes only for Jesus was it prophesised that his flesh would not corrupt so he was raised in his old body fulfilling the sign of Jonah.We have a new body
Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2012,08:41) Frank, Do you agree with all the words of those you post? It is not the soul that sleeps but the body; that rests in the dust of the ground. Jesus was also speaking of the body when he spoke of the sleep of death.
Job 17
New American Standard Bible (NASB)13 “If I look for Sheol as my home,
I [g]make my bed in the darkness;
14 If I call to the pit, ‘You are my father’;
To the worm, ‘my mother and my sister’;
15 Where now is my hope?
And who regards my hope?
16 “[h]Will it go down with me to Sheol?
Shall we together go down into the dust?”g) Job 17:13 Lit spread out
h) Job 17:16 So the Gr; Heb possibly Let my limbs sink down to Sheol, since there is rest in the dust for allDaniel 12
New American Standard Bible (NASB)13 But as for you, go your way to the [n]end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the [o]age.”
n) Daniel 12:13 I.e. end of your life
o) Daniel 12:13 Lit daysThe souls of the dead dwell in Sheol; just as it is written:
Psalm 16:10
New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 For You will not abandon my soul to [a]Sheol;
Nor will You allow Your [c]Holy One to [d]undergo decay.
Footnotes:Psalm 16:10 I.e. the nether world
Psalm 16:10 Lit give
Psalm 16:10 Or godly one
Psalm 16:10 Or see corruption or the pitand
Psalm 30:3
New American Standard Bible (NASB)3 O LORD, You have brought up my soul from [a]Sheol;
You have kept me alive, that I would not go down to the pit.
Footnotes:Psalm 30:3 I.e. the nether world
Psalm 30:3 Some mss read from among those who go downand
Psalm 49:15
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 But God will redeem my soul from the [a]power of Sheol,
For He will receive me.
Selah.
Footnotes:Psalm 49:15 Lit hand
It is the body that sleeps and the soul that enters Hades; except those that enter Sheol while still alive.
kerwin,
I make it quite clear by posting a disclaimer on all of my web sites and pages that I do not agree with all the beliefs of those (or “all words” as you have put it) whose links and articles that I post. I certainly do not agree with you and Nick on the false “souls sleep” doctrine, if this is in fact what you and Nick are attempting to get me to to believe in. I believe as Scripture clearly teaches, that the SOUL that sins, it shall DIE!
The SOUL that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the disobedience of the father, neither shall the father bear the disobedience of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him (Yechetzqyah [Ezekeiyl] 18:20).
For as in Adam all DIE, even so in Messiah shall all be MADE ALIVE (1 Corinthians 15:22).
And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to DIE, but AFTER THIS the judgment: So Messiah was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto redemption (Hebrews 9:27-28).
By the which will we are set apart through the offering of the body of Yahshua Messiah ONCE for ALL. And every priest stands time after time ministering and offering frequently the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But when this priest [Yahshua] had offered for all time ONE SACRIFICE for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.
To believe otherwise would be to believe the deceptive lie that the serpent (Satan) told Eve, “You shall not surely die!”
And Yahweh formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of LIFE; and man became a LIVING SOUL (Genesis 2:7).
And the serpent said unto the woman, You shall not surely die: For Yahweh does know that at the time you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as mighty ones, knowing righteousness and evil (Genesis 3:4-5).
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little while (Revelation 20:2-3).
One does not live in sheol! The Hebrew word sheol means “the common grave” and is equivalent to the Greek word 'hades'.
Regarding Sheol, in A Compendious Hebrew Lexicon, Samuel Pike stated that it is “the common receptacle or region of the dead; so called from the insatiability of the grave, which is as it were always asking or craving more.” (Cambridge, 1811, p. 148) This would indicate that Sheol is the place (not a condition) that asks for or demands all without distinction, as it receives the dead of mankind within it.—Gen. 37:35, footnote; Prov. 30:15, 16.
The Hebrew word she’ohl′ occurs 65 times in the Masoretic text. In the King James Version, it is translated 31 times as “hell,” 31 times as “grave,” and 3 times as “pit.” The Catholic Douay Version rendered the word 63 times as “hell,” once as “pit,” and once as “death.” In addition, at Isaiah 7:11 the Hebrew text originally read she’ohl′, and it was rendered as “Hades” in the ancient Greek versions of Aquila, Symmachus, and Theodotion, and as “hell” in the Douay Version.
There is no English word that conveys the precise sense of the Hebrew word she’ohl′. Commenting on the use of the word “hell” in Bible translation, Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says: “Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word ‘hell,’ as understood today, is not a happy translation.” More recent versions transliterate the word into English as “Sheol.”—RS, AT.
Regarding Sheol, the Encyclopaedia Britannica (1971, Vol. 11, p. 276) noted: “Sheol was located somewhere ‘under’ the earth. . . . The state of the dead was one of neither pain nor pleasure. Neither reward for the righteous nor punishment for the wicked was associated with Sheol. The righteous and the unrighteous alike, tyrants and saints, kings and orphans, Ysrylites and all nations — all were dead together without awareness of one another.”
While the Greek teaching of the immortality of the human soul infiltrated Jewish religious thinking in later centuries, the Bible record shows that Sheol refers to mankind’s common grave as a place where there is no consciousness. (Ecc. 9:4-6, 10) Those in Sheol neither praise Yahweh nor mention him. (Ps. 6:4, 5; Isa. 38:17-19) Yet it cannot be said that it simply represents ‘a condition of being separated from Yahweh,’ since the Scriptures render such a teaching untenable by showing that Sheol is “in front of” him, and that Yahweh is in effect “there” (Prov. 15:11; Ps. 139:7, 8; Amos 9:1, 2). For this reason Iob, longing to be relieved of his suffering, prayed that he might go to Sheol and later be remembered by Yahweh and be called out from Sheol. — Iob 14:12-15.
Throughout the inspired Scriptures, Sheol is continually associated with death and not life. (1Sam. 2:6; 2Sam 22:6; Ps. 18:4, 5; 49:7-10, 14, 15; 88:2-6; 89:48; Isa. 28:15-18; also compare Ps. 116:3, 7-10 with 2Cor. 4:13, 14.) It is spoken of as “the land of darkness” (Job 10:21) and a place of silence. (Ps. 115:17) Abel apparently was the first one to go to Sheol, and since then countless millions of human dead have joined him
in the dust of the ground.On the day of Pentecost 33 C.E., the apostle Kepha quoted from Psalm 16:10 and applied it to Messiah Yahshua. Luke, in quoting Kepha’s words in translation, used the Greek word hai′des, thereby showing that Sheol and Hades refer to the same thing, mankind’s common grave. (Acts 2:25-27, 29-32) During the Thousand Year Reign of Yahshua Messiah, Sheol, or Hades, is emptied and destroyed, through a resurrection of all of those in it (Rev. 20:13, 14).
THE SOUL OF MAN
By Voy Wilks
1970, Revised 1993Does man have an immortal soul dwelling within him? What happens to the soul when a man dies? Can a soul die? Or can it be that man IS a soul? Let us examine the Scriptures and learn, if possible, the correct answer to these questions. This is a biblical topic; therefore we should learn what the Sacred Writings teach.
First: Why Read the Old Testament?
Some kindly people have suggested we, the Assembly of Yahweh (7th day), read the Old Testament too much. “Why not read more in the New Testament?” To answer that, let me point out:
1. ALL Scripture (both Old and New), if given by inspiration of Yahweh, is profitable, therefore we should read both the Old and the New.
2. Old Testament Scriptures are many more in number, so naturally these require more reading time than do New Testament Scriptures. In most Bibles, the Old Testament consists of approximately 840 pages, while the New Testament consists of only about 240 pages.
3. The Apostles PROVED their doctrine by Old Testament Scriptures.
4. Of more importance, Yahshua the Messiah taught his disciples from the Old Scriptures. If we revere the Savior, we as his disciples, should revere the Holy Scriptures which he revered. He too, proved his doctrine by the ancient Scriptures, as is indicated in the following quotation:“Man shall not live by bread alone, but BY EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the MOUTH OF YAHWEH” (Deut. 8:3; Mt. 4:4, KJV). This includes Old Testament Scriptures in general and the Ten Commandments in particular. Paul agrees:
” … from a child thou hast known the HOLY SCRIPTURES which are able to make thee wise UNTO SALVATION through faith which is in Messiah Yahshua. ALL Scripture given by inspiration of Yahweh is PROFITABLE for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, and for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS: that the man of Yahweh may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto ALL good works” (2 Tim. 3:15-17.
Did Paul refer to New Testament writings? No. He referred to the Torah (the Books of Moses), the prophets, the Psalms, and the “Writings” (the Old Testament). Be assured that Paul did not refer to his own writings as “Holy Scriptures.” Instead, he referred to the Old Testament. So let us remember: Paul says Old Testament Scriptures are profitable for establishing DOCTRINE, therefore we too are justified in searching the Old Scriptures to learn what is true. To better understand about the Soul of Man, let us now consult Scriptures which deal with the soul, and discover how the word is used.
Old Testament Evidence:
Astonishing Revelations About the Soul
Gen 46:18 -Souls (KJV) Persons (RSV)
Lev. 5:1,2 -Souls (KJV) Anyone (RSV)
Lev. 5:4 -Souls (KJV) Anyone (RSV).
Lev. 5:17 -Souls (KJV) Anyone (RSV).
Lev. 7:21 -Souls (KJV) Person (RSV).
Lev. 7:27 -Souls (KJV) Whoever (RSV).
Lev. 20: 25 -Souls (KJV) Yourselves (RSV).
Lev. 22:11 -Souls (KJV) Slave (RSV).
Lev. 23:32 -Souls (KJV) Yoursleves (RSV).
Num. 30:4 -Souls (KJV) Herself (RSV).Young's Concordance: When we look at the word SOUL in Young's Concordance, we find that the Hebrew word is NEPHESH, meaning “animal soul.” Here are some very revealing ways NEPHESH is translated in the King James Bible.
Translated No. of Times Translated No. of Times
Appetite 4 Soul 428
Beast 2 Thing 2
Body 2 Lust 2
Body 7 Creature 9
Dead (body) 8 Own 1
Desire 5 Will 4
Man 3 Fish 1
Mind 15 Life 119
Person 30 Self 19Strong's Concordance: “nephesh #5315, a breathing creature, i.e. animal or (abstract) vitality, etc.”
The Nephesh (Soul, Life) Is In the Blood
As noted above, Nephesh is translated SOUL 428 times. However, it is translated LIFE 119 times. Let us at this time review some of the Scriptures in which Nephesh (soul) is translated life in the KJV.
Gen. 9:3-5. “Every moving thing that liveth shall be meet [food] for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the LIFE [nephesh #5315, soul] thereof, WHICH IS THE BLOOD thereof, shall ye not eat. And surely your BLOOD of your LIVES [nephesh # 5315, soul] will I require: at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require LIFE [nephesh #5315, soul] of man.”
Gen. 19:17-19. “Escape for you LIFE [nephesh #5315, soul]; look not behind thee, … lest thou be consumed. … Behold now, … though has magnified thy mercy which thou hast showed unto me in saving my LIFE” [nephesh #5315, soul].
Lev. 17:10-15. “And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the STRANGERS that sojourn among you, that EATETH ANY BLOOD; I will even set my face against that SOUL [nephesh] that EATETH BLOOD, and cut him off from among his people. For the LIFE [nephesh, soul] IS IN THE BLOOD: and I have given it to you upon the alter to, make an atonement for your SOULS [nephesh]: for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the SOUL [nephesh]. Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No SOUL [nephesh] of you shall eat BLOOD, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood. … For it is the LIFE [nephesh, soul] of ALL FLESH; the BLOOD of it is for the LIFE [NEPHESH, SOUL] IS THE BLOODA thereof: … And every SOUL [nephesh] that eateth …” (KJV).
Num. 35:31. “Moreover you shall accept no ransom for the LIFE [nephesh, soul] of the murderer, … he shall be put to death” (RSV)
Deut. 12:23. “Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: FOR the BLOOD IS the LIFE [nephesh, soul] with the Flesh” (KJV)
1 Sam 19:11. ” … and Michal … told him, If thou save not thy LIFE [nephesh, soul] tonight, tomorrow thou shalt be slain.”
Job 2:6. “And Yahweh said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but SAVE HIS LIFE [nephesh, soul].” What is this? Satan, “a soul saver.” This seems humorous, but it helps in understanding the word nephesh (soul).
Isa. 53:12. ” … because he hath POURED OUT HIS SOUL unto DEATH.”
ECCL. 9:5. The DEAD KNOW NOTHING at all. This brings to mind an illustration someone made regarding the common view that the DEAD are WISE and know EVERYTHING. Reason: because the “immortal soul” has gone to heaven. He said, “Hit a man on the head with a half pound hammer, and immediately he knows nothing at all because he becomes unconscious. But, hit a man on the head with a 10 pound hammer, and soon he knows EVERYTHING because he is dead. Foolish? Yes, indeed. But it shows the folly of believing the dead know everything, and are more ACUTELY ALIVE than the living ? than before death overtook them.
Souls [Nephesh] Equal Persons
It is interesting to notice that many Scriptures in which the King James Version uses the word SOUL, other versions use words which better convey the true meaning: PERSON, anyone, yourself, yourselves, he who, etc. For your convenience, here are listed a few of these Scriptures from both the KJV and the RSV.
Gen 46:18 -Souls (KJV) Persons (RSV)
Lev. 5:1,2 -Souls (KJV) Anyone (RSV)
Lev. 5:4 -Soul (KJV) Anyone (RSV)
Lev. 5:17 -Soul (KJV) Anyone (RSV)
Lev. 7:21 -Soul (KJV) Person (RSV)
Lev. 7:27 -Soul (KJV) Whoever (RSV)
Lev. 20:25 -Soul (KJV) Yourselves (RSV)
Lev. 22:11 -Soul (KJV) Slave (RSV).
Lev. 23:32 -Soul (KJV) Yourselves (RSV).
Num. 30:4 -Soul (KJV) Herself (RSV).NEPHESH (#5315, soul) is also translated “dead,” meaning “dead person” in the following Scriptures: Lev. 19:28; 21:1; 22-4; Num. 5:2; 6:11.
Living Creatures: Fishes, Bugs, and Animals
Are Souls (Nephesh)The Hebrew word NEPHESH (#5315) is in the King James Version translated LIVING CREATURE nine times. The interesting thing is, these “creatures” [nephesh, souls] are bugs, fishes, birds, and animals:
* Living creatures (nephesh, souls) = fishes in the sea and birds of the air (Gen. 1:21).
* Living creatures (nephesh, souls) = cattle of the field (Gen. 1:24).
* Living creatures (nephesh, souls) = beasts of the earth (Gen. 1:24).
* Adam named every LIVING CREATURES [nephesh, soul] (Gen. 2:19).
* Every LIVING CREATURE [nephesh, soul] came out of the ark (Gen. 9:10, 12).
* The rainbow was a covenant between YHWH and LIVING CREATURES [nephesh, souls] (Gen. 9:15, 16).
* Man's food consists of living creatures (nephesh, souls); i.e. animals, fowls, and bugs, which are in the seas, or which creep upon the earth (Lev. 11:46).As you will remember, several Scriptures show that the LIFE is in the BLOOD. The blood itself is referred to as the soul. DEAD BODIES also, are souls. It is now easy to see that a breathing creature is a LIVING soul; and one who has breathed his last, is a DEAD soul. These Scriptures from the Old Testament are more than enough to show that the words SOUL and LIFE are often used interchangeable. The SOUL can refer to the whole person, the physical person, and to the BLOOD within a person. The soul can die from various causes. Again, let us stress these points:
1. The soul [nephesh] is the person, the human being (mail or female), and the living creatures.
2. The soul [nephesh] can die; can be killed by various means; by the sword, lack of food etc.
3. The LIFE [nephesh] is in the blood
4. Death results when the blood is poured out of the soul.
5. A dead body is a dead soul [nephesh].New Testament Evidence
Psuche = Life (Animal life, breath {Young's Concordance})
The Greek word in the New Testament from which “soul” is translated is PSUCHE. It appears in the Greek New Testament 103 times and, in the KJV, was translated: SOUL, 58 times; LIFE, 40 times; HEART, 1 time; and MIND, 3 times.
Lk. 2:35 – A SWORD shall pierce thy soul (psuche obviously = body).
Lk. 12:19 – His soul (psuche = person) enjoyed eating, drinking, and making merry.
Lk. 12:20 – His soul (psuche = life) would be required of him that very night.
Luke 12:19, 20. “And I will say to my soul [psuche], soul [psuche] thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But El said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul [psuche] shall be required of thee: …”
We see in the New Testament, just as in the Old, that the soul enjoys eating and drinking. These verses could read as follows with no change in meaning:
“I will say to myself: Man, you have ample goods laid up for many years; take your ease, eat, drink, be merry. But El said to him, 'Fool! This night your life will be required of you.'”
The same Greek word (psuche, soul) appears as life in the following verses:
Yahshua said, “Take no thought for your life {psuche}, what you shall eat; … The life {psuche} is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.”
The Psuche (Soul) Can be Destroyed (Die)
Mt. 3:10. “And now the axe is laid unto the Root of the trees; therefore, every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire”. Notice: it is the tree that is hewn down and BURNED, not just the FRUIT, of the tree.
Mt. 3:12. “The chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.” So it is not that the wicked souls will only be SEPARATED from Yahweh. They will be DESTROYED in the fire - BURNED UP – annihilated, cease to exist.
Acts 3:23. The soul that does not hear, shall be destroyed. The New Scriptures, then, agrees with the Old: The soul that sinneth, it shall die; be destroyed. Not only will the soul be separated from Yahweh, but the soul will DIE – cease to live.
James 5:20. A formula for saving a soul (a person) from death.
1 Pet. 3:20. Eight souls [persons, RSV] were saved by water. This refers to Noah and his family; physical human beings.
Rev. 16:3. The SOULS {psuche} in the sea died because the sea became like the blood of a dead man. (The R.S.V. reads, “EVERY LIVING THING died that was in the sea”). This includes the fishes (souls).
Rev 18:3-14. Tells about the souls (PSUCHE) lusting after trade goods, food, etc. This clearly shows the soul (the person) is not IMMORTAL. Man is very MORTAL, very human, and is dependent upon food, raiment, and shelter – the blessings of the earth.
Does the Soul Leave the Body At Death?
Some believe the souls of the righteous leave the body at death and go to heaven, and the souls of the wicked leave the body at death and go to hell. Is this really true? Let us consider: Yahshua was without sin, a righteous man. If righteous souls go to heaven at death, then Yahshua's soul should by all means have gone to heaven when he died.
Again: If there ever was a soul which should have gone to heaven at death, then Yahshua's soul should have made the trip. Did this happen? No. Scriptures indicate Yahshua's soul went to hell – for three days and three nights (Acts 2:27-31). It did not go to heaven. Instead, it went to hell – the grave. This illustrates two significant points:
1. The souls of the righteous do not go to heaven when the person dies.
2. Generally speaking, the SOUL and the PERSON are one and the same thing. A “living soul” is a living person, and a “dead soul” is a dead person.The Good News is: Yahshua's soul (psuche) was not left in hell (Acts 2:31). He came forth from the grave after three days and three nights. Praise Yahweh! But to continue:
Mt. 2:20. Arise, … for they are dead who sought the young child’s LIFE (psuche, soul).
Mt. 16:25, 26. “For whoever will save his LIFE (psuche) shall lose it: and whoever shall loose his LIFE (psuche)? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his SOUL (psuche).”
Both “LIFE” and “SOUL” appear twice in these verses. All four are translated from the same Greek word, PSUCHE. Here, “life” and “soul” can be interchanged with no loss of meaning. In fact, all are translated “life” in the following versions:
American Standard Version Jerusalem Bible
Berkeley Version Jewish New Testament
Bible in Basic English New Revised Standard Version
Concordant Version New World Translation
Diaglott Revised Standard Version
Emphasized Bible The Sacred Scriptures, Bethel Edition
Good News Bible Weymouth VersionWe have seen people die; therefore we have seen with our own eyes that death is final. There is no part of man which lives on. All is lost; a total, TOTAL LOSS. One moment there is life, breath, thought, action. The next moment there I no breath, no thought, no life, no action. LIFE is replaced by Death. We have seen it, so we know, even without any outside help that were it not for the heavenly Father, death is the end.
In fact, that is why Yahshua was offered as a ransom for us – because we DO NOT have immortality (Ezek. 18:4, 20). Immortality (everlasting life) is a gift of Yahweh (Rom. 6:23); a reward promised to the faithful (Rev. 2A:7, 11). We are to “seek for glory, honor, and immortality, eternal life” (Rom 2:7). We do not have immortality yet, but Yahshua has brought it to light; has made it known; has revealed it to us (2 Tim. 1:10). Therefore we now see how to achieve immortality.
Again, man does not at this time possess immortality. Never once does the Bible speak of the “immortal soul.” These two words never appear together. Paul wrote that only Yahweh has immortality (1 Tim. 6:16). Therefore, no human being living today possesses immortality. We put on immortality only at the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:42-54).
Summary
We have found the Scriptures teach:
1. Soul and person are one and the same thing, generally speaking.
2. The life of the soul is the blo
od
3. When the blood is poured out, the result is death to the soul.
4. A living being is a living soul; a dead person is a dead soul.
5. When a person dies, the soul does not go to heaven.
6. A person (a human being) IS a soul, therefore:
7. A soul can die, give up life, cease to exist.Death is NOT life. Death is the opposite of life. In a moment of time a vital, living, intelligent being can be changed to a lifeless, dead body which knows nothing at all. It is the same with humans and with animals. All die and go to the same place – we return to dust, as Scriptures indicate:
“For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beat … All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again” (Eccl. 3:19-20).
Response to Objections
Gen. 35:18. Perhaps some will refer to the death of Rachel. When we understand about the “soul” there is no problem or contradiction here. We have already seen that the soul refers to the life, as well as the body itself. So when life departed from Rachel, she died. Remember. This equivalent word was translated life 119 times in the KJV. It would have been completely proper to have written” … as her LIFE was departing (for she died) …” The meaning is the same.
Rev. 6:9 & 20:4. John saw the souls of those who had been beheaded. The Diaglott reads, “I saw the persons of those who had been beheaded … “ Since SOUL means the “person” (the being), as well as “life” there is no problem in this passage. When Yahweh breathed into Adam’s nostrils, he became a LIVING soul; a LIVING BEING (RSV). Without breath, we become DEAD BEINGS, OR DEAD SOULS.
Mt. 10:28. And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him who is about to destroy both SOUL and BODY in hell” (KJV).
Many believe that some part of man is undying (immortal). If true, not even Yahweh can destroy it. But this scripture and many more say that Yahweh can and will destroy (kill, put to death) the SOULS THAT SIN; Ezek. 18:4, 20, 26; Acts 3:23; Mt.. 3:10; Ps. 37:10, 20, 36, 38; Rev. 20:14, 15; 2 Thes. 1:9; to name only a few.
“Be not afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot destroy the {future} life; but rather fear Him who can utterly destroy both life and body in gehenna” (Mt. 10:28, Diaglott).
Verse 39 reveals this is speaking of the future life (psuche): those who deny Yahshua here and now in order to save this present life will lose the future life, but those who lose the present life for the Messiah will find (everlasting) life (psuche) in the future. Man can kill the body but cannot kill in such a way as to prevent Yahweh from giving us a better resurrection (Heb. 11:35); that is, everlasting life, as Scriptures reveal: “He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death” (Rev. 2:10, 11).
Please notice: There is no such thing as immortality separate and apart form Yahweh. He can destroy both soul and body in hell. Destruction is NOT everlasting life in hell. The wicked will one day cease to exist. They will be annihilated (Mt. 3:10-12; 13:30).
1 Thes. 5:23. “And the very El of peace sanctify you holy; and I pray El your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Savior Yahshua Messiah.”
Keeping in mind the things we have learned above, let us write this sentence in other words, but with the same meaning:
“ … I pray El your whole spirit [mind] and soul [psuche = life] and body be preserved …”
Phil. 1:21-23. “For me to live is Messiah, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labor: Yet what I shall choose I I wot not. For I am in a strait betixt two, having a desire to depart, and be with Messiah, which is far better.”
The Apostle Paul had been arrested by Jewish authorities in Jerusalem because he preached that Yahshua is the Messiah. He was forced to appeal to Ceasar. The letter to the Philippians was written in 64 C. E. while he was a prisoner in Rome (Phil.1:7, 12-24; 2 Tim. 1:16, 17). At his first trial before Caesar in C.E. 66, no one stood with Paul. All deserted him (2 Tim. 4:16-18). While writing this letter to the Philippians, Paul debated with himself whether he would (1) gain his freedom or (2) be executed. In either case, he belonged to Yahshua Messiah. Should he live, he would live for the Messiah. Should he be executed, he would die as a martyr for the Messiah. There was “gain” for him in doing so (Phil. 1:21). What is the gain Paul expected? Immediate entrance into Yahshua’s presence in heaven? No. The gain was a “better resurrection” (Heb. 11:35). Paul makes this clear in his continuing comments to the Philippians:
“Indeed I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Messiah Yahshua my Savior. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as refuse, in order that I might gain Messiah and be found in him, … that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that IF POSSIBLE I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Messiah Yahshua has made me his own. Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of Yahweh in Messiah Yahshua” (Phil. 3:8-14, RSV).
Now back to Phil. 1:23: Our English Versions appears to say that if Paul departed, he would have been immediately ushered into the presence of Yahshua. As noted above, this was not the case. He awaited the resurrection. Paul himself wrote that it is at the Messiah’s return that the resurrection occurs, and only then the “dead in Messiah will rise first, then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet Yahshua in the air; and so we shall always be with Yahshua” (1 Thes. 4:16, 17 RSV). What then, is the meaning of Phil. 1:23?
The key to understanding is the word “depart” (Greek = analuo). This word appears only twice in the New Testament. The other time it is translated “return.” What? “Return” is the very opposite of “depart.” True, but look at the Scripture:
“ … And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their master, when he will RETURN [analuo] from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. Blessed are those servants, whom the Master when he cometh shall find watching: …” (Luke 12:36, 37).
We see that “analuo” is definitely related to the Messiah’s return, not his going away. There is other evidence indicating analuo should be translated return in Phil. 1:23. In consulting the Diaglott and the NIV Greek/English Interlinear, the correct message appears to be as follows:
“For I am in a strait between two, having a desire for the return, and to be with Messiah; which is far better” [than either of the choices named in verse 21] (Phil. 1:23).
The Interlinear does indeed contain the words, “for the.” English translations omit them, however. This could have happened in al sincerity, since most Bible scholars believe the soul goes to be with the Messiah immediately after death. Paul speaks of three things in particular in Phil. 1:21-23.
1. Paul might be executed.
2. Paul might be acquitted, and live to go free.
3. Paul longed for the return, so he could be with the Messiah.A Final Comment
The view that man has within him an immortal soul which flits off to heaven or to hell at the death of the person is not a biblical doctrine. It has been adopted from the pagan religions. Believing in the immortality of the soul is one step toward believing in re-incarnation. Let us drop all pagani
sm and believe the Sacred Writings which have been inspired by the Most High El – Yahweh (2 Tim. 3:14-17).
SOURCEQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,04:23) Hi KW,
Yes only for Jesus was it prophesised that his flesh would not corrupt so he was raised in his old body fulfilling the sign of Jonah.We have a new body
Nick,Mosses died and was buried and the location of his burial was known and yet his grave could not be found. Instead the archangel Michael and the Accuser debated over it and the archangel triumphed. The next we heard of Mosses; both he and Elijah; in bodily form; were speaking with Jesus. Were their bodies the mortal or immortal?
Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2012,16:12) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,03:54) Hi KW
You say
“Do you agree with all the words of those you post? It is not the soul that sleeps but the body; that rests in the dust of the ground”The old body corrupts and returns to DUST.
Nick,The consciousness(soul) departs from the body with death. What is sleep but an altered consciousness.
Since I believe in a bodily resurrection “I believe there is rest in the dust for all”, including Daniel.
That rest is only for the body; for the soul,which is of spirit and not dust, enters Sheol.
The body returns to dust as it rests; just as God cursed it to do.
Kdoes a seed that is planted after it as given new live does it come back
or is the seed lost to the profit of the new life
Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2012,13:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,04:23) Hi KW,
Yes only for Jesus was it prophesised that his flesh would not corrupt so he was raised in his old body fulfilling the sign of Jonah.We have a new body
Nick,Mosses died and was buried and the location of his burial was known and yet his grave could not be found. Instead the archangel Michael and the Accuser debated over it and the archangel triumphed. The next we heard of Mosses; both he and Elijah; in bodily form; were speaking with Jesus. Were their bodies the mortal or immortal?
Hi KW,
Yes and Samuel too when woken was seen in human form.None will yet have received a heavenly body but they will when Jesus christ returns and they are raised.
Frank,
If you had read what I wrote then you would know I do not support soul sleep but rather support the idea that the body sleeps; having no consciousness; as it departs to Sheol with the soul.
Hades is the name of Sheol in Greek. Hell is the English name some have labeled it.
Tartartus is the name of the lowest level of Sheol in Greek. Some have also labeled it Hell in English.
Paradise is the name of the highest level of Sheol in Greek. It is labeled the same in English.
Gehenna is the lake of fire and is called Hell in some Scriptures.
The third heaven is called Paradise in the 2nd letter to the Corinthians.
Your source does not seem to know these things and so is confusing.Here is Scripture that makes the body dies when the soul departs.
Genesis 35:18
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
18 It came about as her soul was departing (for she died), that she named him [a]Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.Footnotes:
a.Genesis 35:18 I.e. the son of my sorrow
b.Genesis 35:18 I.e. the son of the right handThis passage speaks of a man’s soul drawing near to Sheol
Psalm 88:3
New American Standard Bible (NASB)3 For my soul has [a]had enough troubles,
And my life has drawn near to Sheol.Footnotes:
a.Psalm 88:3 Or been satisfied with
b.Psalm 88:3 I.e. the nether worldQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2012,13:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,04:23) Hi KW,
Yes only for Jesus was it prophesised that his flesh would not corrupt so he was raised in his old body fulfilling the sign of Jonah.We have a new body
Nick,Mosses died and was buried and the location of his burial was known and yet his grave could not be found. Instead the archangel Michael and the Accuser debated over it and the archangel triumphed. The next we heard of Mosses; both he and Elijah; in bodily form; were speaking with Jesus. Were their bodies the mortal or immortal?
Hi KW,
Yes and Samuel too when woken was seen in human form.None will yet have received a heavenly body but they will when Jesus christ returns and they are raised.
Nick,Samuel was not offered a tent to protect him from the elements; Jesus, Mosses, and Elijah were.
Quote (terraricca @ April 18 2012,09:48) you need more reading
Pierre,If you know something I do not then feel free to share it. I know that neither the soul of the rich man or the soul of Lazarus were sleeping in the parable about them.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,11:43) Hi KW,
Where is it written that is was TO PROTECT THEM FROM THE ELEMENTS?
Mark 9
King James Version (KJV)4And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
5And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
6For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
7And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Luke 9
King James Version (KJV)30And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
32But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
33And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
34While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
35And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.Just the cloud they feared when entering.
Never the less; a ghost does not require a tabernacle.
Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2012,07:56) Quote (jammin @ April 17 2012,07:17)
yes kerwin if you sin.. and if you dont know the true GOD.
Jammin,Demons know the true God and yet sin; knowing destruction awaits them.
Jesus stated any one that sins is a servant of sin and that he will truly set them free from sin.
If the teaching you adhere to, is not designed to set you truly free from serving sin; then it is false.
For the Word is powerful and active.
yes jesus said that this is eternal life that they may know the true God.
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