JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[jammin]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 16 2012,14:46)

Quote (jammin @ April 16 2012,14:14) the word in john 1.1 is christ. you must stay to the topic. jammit, Who died and made you the moderator of this forum thread?

dont you know the rules of this forum?
have some manners

you know, you can do better if you start planting trees today.
help your country LOL

[jammin]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 16 2012,15:06)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,15:00) Hi Frank, No. Asleep. And alive to God. The Living Spirit does not die Nick, So, you are one who believe in the “immortal soul” doctrine? THE SOUL OF MAN By Voy Wilks 1970, Revised 1993 Does man have an immortal soul dwelling within him? What happens to the soul when a man dies? Can a soul die? Or can it be that man IS a soul? Let us examine the Scriptures and learn, if possible, the correct answer to these questions. This is a biblical topic; therefore we should learn what the Sacred Writings teach. First: Why Read the Old Testament? Some kindly people have suggested we, the Assembly of Yahweh (7th day), read the Old Testament too much. “Why not read more in the New Testament?” To answer that, let me point out: 1. ALL Scripture (both Old and New), if given by inspiration of Yahweh, is profitable, therefore we should read both the Old and the New. 2. Old Testament Scriptures are many more in number, so naturally these require more reading time than do New Testament Scriptures. In most Bibles, the Old Testament consists of approximately 840 pages, while the New Testament consists of only about 240 pages. 3. The Apostles PROVED their doctrine by Old Testament Scriptures. 4. Of more importance, Yahshua the Messiah taught his disciples from the Old Scriptures. If we revere the Savior, we as his disciples, should revere the Holy Scriptures which he revered. He too, proved his doctrine by the ancient Scriptures, as is indicated in the following quotation: “Man shall not live by bread alone, but BY EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the MOUTH OF YAHWEH” (Deut. 8:3; Mt. 4:4, KJV). This includes Old Testament Scriptures in general and the Ten Commandments in particular. Paul agrees: ” … from a child thou hast known the HOLY SCRIPTURES which are able to make thee wise UNTO SALVATION through faith which is in Messiah Yahshua. ALL Scripture given by inspiration of Yahweh is PROFITABLE for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, and for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS: that the man of Yahweh may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto ALL good works” (2 Tim. 3:15-17. Did Paul refer to New Testament writings? No. He referred to the Torah (the Books of Moses), the prophets, the Psalms, and the “Writings” (the Old Testament). Be assured that Paul did not refer to his own writings as “Holy Scriptures.” Instead, he referred to the Old Testament. So let us remember: Paul says Old Testament Scriptures are profitable for establishing DOCTRINE, therefore we too are justified in searching the Old Scriptures to learn what is true. To better understand about the Soul of Man, let us now consult Scriptures which deal with the soul, and discover how the word is used. Old Testament Evidence: Astonishing Revelations About the Soul Gen 46:18 -Souls (KJV) Persons (RSV) Lev. 5:1,2 -Souls (KJV) Anyone (RSV) Lev. 5:4 -Souls (KJV) Anyone (RSV). Lev. 5:17 -Souls (KJV) Anyone (RSV). Lev. 7:21 -Souls (KJV) Person (RSV). Lev. 7:27 -Souls (KJV) Whoever (RSV). Lev. 20: 25 -Souls (KJV) Yourselves (RSV). Lev. 22:11 -Souls (KJV) Slave (RSV). Lev. 23:32 -Souls (KJV) Yoursleves (RSV). Num. 30:4 -Souls (KJV) Herself (RSV). Young's Concordance: When we look at the word SOUL in Young's Concordance, we find that the Hebrew word is NEPHESH, meaning “animal soul.” Here are some very revealing ways NEPHESH is translated in the King James Bible. Translated No. of Times Translated No. of Times Appetite 4 Soul 428 Beast 2 Thing 2 Body 2 Lust 2 Body 7 Creature 9 Dead (body) 8 Own 1 Desire 5 Will 4 Man 3 Fish 1 Mind 15 Life 119 Person 30 Self 19 Strong's Concordance: “nephesh #5315, a breathing creature, i.e. animal or (abstract) vitality, etc.” The Nephesh (Soul, Life) Is In the Blood As noted above, Nephesh is translated SOUL 428 times. However, it is translated LIFE 119 times. Let us at this time review some of the Scriptures in which Nephesh (soul) is translated life in the KJV. Gen. 9:3-5. “Every moving thing that liveth shall be meet [food] for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the LIFE [nephesh #5315, soul] thereof, WHICH IS THE BLOOD thereof, shall ye not eat. And surely your BLOOD of your LIVES [nephesh # 5315, soul] will I require: at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require LIFE [nephesh #5315, soul] of man.” Gen. 19:17-19. “Escape for you LIFE [nephesh #5315, soul]; look not behind thee, … lest thou be consumed. … Behold now, … though has magnified thy mercy which thou hast showed unto me in saving my LIFE” [nephesh #5315, soul]. Lev. 17:10-15. “And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the STRANGERS that sojourn among you, that EATETH ANY BLOOD; I will even set my face against that SOUL [nephesh] that EATETH BLOOD, and cut him off from among his people. For the LIFE [nephesh, soul] IS IN THE BLOOD: and I have given it to you upon the alter to, make an atonement for your SOULS [nephesh]: for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the SOUL [nephesh]. Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No SOUL [nephesh] of you shall eat BLOOD, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood. … For it is the LIFE [nephesh, soul] of ALL FLESH; the BLOOD of it is for the LIFE [NEPHESH, SOUL] IS THE BLOODA thereof: … And every SOUL [nephesh] that eateth …” (KJV). Num. 35:31. “Moreover you shall accept no ransom for the LIFE [nephesh, soul] of the murderer, … he shall be put to death” (RSV) Deut. 12:23. “Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: FOR the BLOOD IS the LIFE [nephesh, soul] with the Flesh” (KJV) 1 Sam 19:11. ” … and Michal … told him, If thou save not thy LIFE [nephesh, soul] tonight, tomorrow thou shalt be slain.” Job 2:6. “And Yahweh said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but SAVE HIS LIFE [nephesh, soul].” What is this? Satan, “a soul saver.” This seems humorous, but it helps in understanding the word nephesh (soul). Isa. 53:12. ” … because he hath POURED OUT HIS SOUL unto DEATH.” ECCL. 9:5. The DEAD KNKOW NOTHING at all. This brings to mind an illustration someone made regarding the common view that the DEAD are WISE and know EVERYTHING. Reason: because the “immortal soul” has gone to heaven. He said, “Hit a man on the head with a half pound hammer, and immediately he knows nothing at all because he becomes unconscious. But, hit a man on the head with a 10 pound hammer, and soon he knows EVERYTHING because he is dead. Foolish? Yes, indeed. But it shows the folly of believing the dead know everything, and are more ACUTELY ALIVE than the living ? than before death overtook them. Souls [Nephesh] Equal Persons It is interesting to notice that many Scriptures in which the King James Version uses the word SOUL, other versions use words which better convey the true meaning: PERSON, anyone, yourself, yourselves, he who, etc. For your convenience, here are listed a few of these Scriptures from both the KJV and the RSV. Gen 46:18 -Souls (KJV) Persons (RSV) Lev. 5:1,2 -Souls (KJV) Anyone (RSV) Lev. 5:4 -Soul (KJV) Anyone (RSV) Lev. 5:17 -Soul (KJV) Anyone (RSV) Lev. 7:21 -Soul (KJV) Person (RSV) Lev. 7:27 -Soul (KJV) Whoever (RSV) Lev. 20:25 -Soul (KJV) Yourselves (RSV) Lev. 22:11 -Soul (KJV) Slave (RSV). Lev. 23:32 -Soul (KJV) Yourselves (RSV). Num. 30:4 -Soul (K JV) Herself (RSV). NEPHESH (#5315, soul) is also translated “dead,” meaning “dead person” in the following Scriptures: Lev. 19:28; 21:1; 22-4; Num. 5:2; 6:11. Living Creatures: Fishes, Bugs, and Animals Are Souls (Nephesh) The Hebrew word NEPHESH (#5315) is in the King James Version translated LIVING CREATURE nine times. The interesting thing is, these “creatures” [nephesh, souls] are bugs, fishes, birds, and animals: * Living creatures (nephesh, souls) = fishes in the sea and birds of the air (Gen. 1:21). * Living creatures (nephesh, souls) = cattle of the field (Gen. 1:24). * Living creatures (nephesh, souls) = beasts of the earth (Gen. 1:24). * Adam named every LIVING CREATURES [nephesh, soul] (Gen. 2:19). * Every LIVING CREATURE [nephesh, soul] came out of the ark (Gen. 9:10, 12). * The rainbow was a covenant between YHWH and LIVING CREATURES [nephesh, souls] (Gen. 9:15, 16). * Man's food consists of living creatures (nephesh, souls); i.e. animals, fowls, and bugs, which are in the seas, or which creep upon the earth (Lev. 11:46). As you will remember, several Scriptures show that the LIFE is in the BLOOD. The blood itself is referred to as the soul. DEAD BODIES also, are souls. It is now easy to see that a breathing creature is a LIVING soul; and one who has breathed his last, is a DEAD soul. These Scriptures from the Old Testament are more than enough to show that the words SOUL and LIFE are often used interchangeable. The SOUL can refer to the whole person, the physical person, and to the BLOOD within a person. The soul can die from various causes. Again, let us stress these points: 1. The soul [nephesh] is the person, the human being (mail or female), and the living creatures. 2. The soul [nephesh] can die; can be killed by various means; by the sword, lack of food etc. 3. The LIFE [nephesh] is in the blood 4. Death results when the blood is poured out of the soul. 5. A dead body is a dead soul [nephesh]. New Testament Evidence Psuche = Life (Animal life, breath {Young's Concordance}) The Greek word in the New Testament from which “soul” is translated is PSUCHE. It appears in the Greek New Testament 103 times and, in the KJV, was translated: SOUL, 58 times; LIFE, 40 times; HEART, 1 time; and MIND, 3 times. Lk. 2:35 – A SWORD shall pierce thy soul (psuche obviously = body). Lk. 12:19 – His soul (psuche = person) enjoyed eating, drinking, and making merry. Lk. 12:20 – His soul (psuche = life) would be required of him that very night. Luke 12:19, 20. “And I will say to my soul [psuche], soul [psuche] thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But El said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul [psuche] shall be required of thee: …” We see in the New Testament, just as in the Old, that the soul enjoys eating and drinking. These verses could read as follows with no change in meaning: “I will say to myself: Man, you have ample goods laid up for many years; take your ease, eat, drink, be merry. But El said to him, 'Fool! This night your life will be required of you.'” The same Greek word (psuche, soul) appears as life in the following verses: Yahshua said, “Take no thought for your life {psuche}, what you shall eat; … The life {psuche} is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.” The Psuche (Soul) Can be Destroyed (Die) Mt. 3:10. “And now the axe is laid unto the Root of the trees; therefore, every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire”. Notice: it is the tree that is hewn down and BURNED, not just the FRUIT, of the tree. Mt. 3:12. “The chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.” So it is not that the wicked souls will only be SEPARATED from Yahweh. They will be DESTROYED in the fire ­­- BURNED UP – annihilated, cease to exist. Acts 3:23. The soul that does not hear, shall be destroyed. The New Scriptures, then, agrees with the Old: The soul that sinneth, it shall die; be destroyed. Not only will the soul be separated from Yahweh, but the soul will DIE – cease to live. James 5:20. A formula for saving a soul (a person) from death. 1 Pet. 3:20. Eight souls [persons, RSV] were saved by water. This refers to Noah and his family; physical human beings. Rev. 16:3. The SOULS {psuche} in the sea died because the sea became like the blood of a dead man. (The R.S.V. reads, “EVERY LIVING THING died that was in the sea”). This includes the fishes (souls). Rev 18:3-14. Tells about the souls (PSUCHE) lusting after trade goods, food, etc. This clearly shows the soul (the person) is not IMMORTAL. Man is very MORTAL, very human, and is dependent upon food, raiment, and shelter – the blessings of the earth. Does the Soul Leave the Body At Death? Some believe the souls of the righteous leave the body at death and go to heaven, and the souls of the wicked leave the body at death and go to hell. Is this really true? Let us consider: Yahshua was without sin, a righteous man. If righteous souls go to heaven at death, then Yahshua's soul should by all means have gone to heaven when he died. Again: If there ever was a soul which should have gone to heaven at death, then Yahshua's soul should have made the trip. Did this happen? No. Scriptures indicate Yahshua's soul went to hell – for three days and three nights (Acts 2:27-31). It did not go to heaven. Instead, it went to hell – the grave. This illustrates two significant points: 1. The souls of the righteous do not go to heaven when the person dies. 2. Generally speaking, the SOUL and the PERSON are one and the same thing. A “living soul” is a living person, and a “dead soul” is a dead person. The Good News is: Yahshua's soul (psuche) was not left in hell (Acts 2:31). He came forth from the grave after three days and three nights. Praise Yahweh! But to continue: Mt. 2:20. Arise, … for they are dead who sought the young child’s LIFE (psuche, soul). Mt. 16:25, 26. “For whoever will save his LIFE (psuche) shall lose it: and whoever shall loose his LIFE (psuche)? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his SOUL (psuche).” Both “LIFE” and “SOUL” appear twice in these verses. All four are translated from the same Greek word, PSUCHE. Here, “life” and “soul” can be interchanged with no loss of meaning. In fact, all are translated “life” in the following versions: American Standard Version Jerusalem Bible Berkeley Version Jewish New Testament Bible in Basic English New Revised Standard Version Concordant Version New World Translation Diaglott Revised Standard Version Emphasized Bible The Sacred Scriptures, Bethel Edition Good News Bible Weymouth Version We have seen people die; therefore we have seen with our own eyes that death is final. There is no part of man which lives on. All is lost; a total, TOTAL LOSS. One moment there is life, breath, thought, action. The next moment there I no breath, no thought, no life, no action. LIFE is replaced by Death. We have seen it, so we know, even without any outside help that were it not for the heavenly Father, death is the end. In fact, that is why Yahshua was offered as a ransom for us – because we DO NOT have immortality (Ezek. 18:4, 20). Immortality (everlasting life) is a gift of Yahweh (Rom. 6:23); a reward promised to the faithful (Rev. 2A:7, 11). We are to “seek for glory, honor, and immortality, eternal life” (Rom 2:7). We do not have immortality yet, but Yahshua has brought it to light; has made it known; has revealed it to us (2 Tim. 1:10). Therefore we now see how to achieve immortality. Again, man does not at this time possess immortality. Never once does the Bible speak of the “immortal soul.” These two words never appear together. Paul wrote that only Yahweh has immortality (1 Tim. 6:16). Therefore, no human being living today possesses immortality. We put on immortali ty only at the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:42-54). Summary We have found the Scriptures teach: 1. Soul and person are one and the same thing, generally speaking. 2. The life of the soul is the blood 3. When the blood is poured out, the result is death to the soul. 4. A living being is a living soul; a dead person is a dead soul. 5. When a person dies, the soul does not go to heaven. 6. A person (a human being) IS a soul, therefore: 7. A soul can die, give up life, cease to exist. Death is NOT life. Death is the opposite of life. In a moment of time a vital, living, intelligent being can be changed to a lifeless, dead body which knows nothing at all. It is the same with humans and with animals. All die and go to the same place – we return to dust, as Scriptures indicate: “For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beat … All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again” (Eccl. 3:19-20). Response to Objections Gen. 35:18. Perhaps some will refer to the death of Rachel. When we understand about the “soul” there is no problem or contradiction here. We have already seen that the soul refers to the life, as well as the body itself. So when life departed from Rachel, she died. Remember. This equivalent word was translated life 119 times in the KJV. It would have been completely proper to have written” … as her LIFE was departing (for she died) …” The meaning is the same. Rev. 6:9 & 20:4. John saw the souls of those who had been beheaded. The Diaglott reads, “I saw the persons of those who had been beheaded … “ Since SOUL means the “person” (the being), as well as “life” there is no problem in this passage. When Yahweh breathed into Adam’s nostrils, he became a LIVING soul; a LIVING BEING (RSV). Without breath, we become DEAD BEINGS, OR DEAD SOULS. Mt. 10:28. And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him who is about to destroy both SOUL and BODY in hell” (KJV). Many believe that some part of man is undying (immortal). If true, not even Yahweh can destroy it. But this scripture and many more say that Yahweh can and will destroy (kill, put to death) the SOULS THAT SIN; Ezek. 18:4, 20, 26; Acts 3:23; Mt.. 3:10; Ps. 37:10, 20, 36, 38; Rev. 20:14, 15; 2 Thes. 1:9; to name only a few. “Be not afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot destroy the {future} life; but rather fear Him who can utterly destroy both life and body in gehenna” (Mt. 10:28, Diaglott). Verse 39 reveals this is speaking of the future life (psuche): those who deny Yahshua here and now in order to save this present life will lose the future life, but those who lose the present life for the Messiah will find (everlasting) life (psuche) in the future. Man can kill the body but cannot kill in such a way as to prevent Yahweh from giving us a better resurrection (Heb. 11:35); that is, everlasting life, as Scriptures reveal: “He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death” (Rev. 2:10, 11). Please notice: There is no such thing as immortality separate and apart form Yahweh. He can destroy both soul and body in hell. Destruction is NOT everlasting life in hell. The wicked will one day cease to exist. They will be annihilated (Mt. 3:10-12; 13:30). 1 Thes. 5:23. “And the very El of peace sanctify you holy; and I pray El your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Savior Yahshua Messiah.” Keeping in mind the things we have learned above, let us write this sentence in other words, but with the same meaning: “ … I pray El your whole spirit [mind] and soul [psuche = life] and body be preserved …” Phil. 1:21-23. “For me to live is Messiah, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labor: Yet what I shall choose I I wot not. For I am in a strait betixt two, having a desire to depart, and be with Messiah, which is far better.” The Apostle Paul had been arrested by Jewish authorities in Jerusalem because he preached that Yahshua is the Messiah. He was forced to appeal to Ceasar. The letter to the Philippians was written in 64 C. E. while he was a prisoner in Rome (Phil.1:7, 12-24; 2 Tim. 1:16, 17). At his first trial before Caesar in C.E. 66, no one stood with Paul. All deserted him (2 Tim. 4:16-18). While writing this letter to the Philippians, Paul debated with himself whether he would (1) gain his freedom or (2) be executed. In either case, he belonged to Yahshua Messiah. Should he live, he would live for the Messiah. Should he be executed, he would die as a martyr for the Messiah. There was “gain” for him in doing so (Phil. 1:21). What is the gain Paul expected? Immediate entrance into Yahshua’s presence in heaven? No. The gain was a “better resurrection” (Heb. 11:35). Paul makes this clear in his continuing comments to the Philippians: “Indeed I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Messiah Yahshua my Savior. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as refuse, in order that I might gain Messiah and be found in him, … that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that IF POSSIBLE I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Messiah Yahshua has made me his own. Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of Yahweh in Messiah Yahshua” (Phil. 3:8-14, RSV). Now back to Phil. 1:23: Our English Versions appears to say that if Paul departed, he would have been immediately ushered into the presence of Yahshua. As noted above, this was not the case. He awaited the resurrection. Paul himself wrote that it is at the Messiah’s return that the resurrection occurs, and only then the “dead in Messiah will rise first, then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet Yahshua in the air; and so we shall always be with Yahshua” (1 Thes. 4:16, 17 RSV). What then, is the meaning of Phil. 1:23? The key to understanding is the word “depart” (Greek = analuo). This word appears only twice in the New Testament. The other time it is translated “return.” What? “Return” is the very opposite of “depart.” True, but look at the Scripture: “ … And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their master, when he will RETURN [analuo] from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. Blessed are those servants, whom the Master when he cometh shall find watching: …” (Luke 12:36, 37). We see that “analuo” is definitely related to the Messiah’s return, not his going away. There is other evidence indicating analuo should be translated return in Phil. 1:23. In consulting the Diaglott and the NIV Greek/English Interlinear, the correct message appears to be as follows: “For I am in a strait between two, having a desire for the return, and to be with Messiah; which is far better” [than either of the choices named in verse 21] (Phil. 1:23). The Interlinear does indeed contain the words, “for the.” English translations omit them, however. This could have happened in al sincerity, since most Bible scholars believe the soul goes to be with the Messiah immediately after death. Paul speaks of three things in particular in Phil. 1:21-23. 1. Paul might be executed. 2. Paul might be acquitted, and live to go free. 3. Paul longed for the return, so he could be with the Messiah. A Final Comment The view that man has within him an immortal soul which flits off to heaven or to h ell at the death of the person is not a biblical doctrine. It has been adopted from the pagan religions. Believing in the immortality of the soul is one step toward believing in re-incarnation. Let us drop all paganism and believe the Sacred Writings which have been inspired by the Most High El – Yahweh (2 Tim. 3:14-17).V SOURCE

that is not the topic here.

dont you have some manners frank?

[NickHassan]

Hi FRank,
God can destroy the soul.
Mt 10.28

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (jammin @ April 16 2012,15:08)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 16 2012,15:06) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,15:00) Hi Frank, No. Asleep. And alive to God. The Living Spirit does not die Nick, So, you are one who believe in the “immortal soul” doctrine? THE SOUL OF MAN By Voy Wilks 1970, Revised 1993 Does man have an immortal soul dwelling within him? What happens to the soul when a man dies? Can a soul die? Or can it be that man IS a soul? Let us examine the Scriptures and learn, if possible, the correct answer to these questions. This is a biblical topic; therefore we should learn what the Sacred Writings teach. First: Why Read the Old Testament? Some kindly people have suggested we, the Assembly of Yahweh (7th day), read the Old Testament too much. “Why not read more in the New Testament?” To answer that, let me point out: 1. ALL Scripture (both Old and New), if given by inspiration of Yahweh, is profitable, therefore we should read both the Old and the New. 2. Old Testament Scriptures are many more in number, so naturally these require more reading time than do New Testament Scriptures. In most Bibles, the Old Testament consists of approximately 840 pages, while the New Testament consists of only about 240 pages. 3. The Apostles PROVED their doctrine by Old Testament Scriptures. 4. Of more importance, Yahshua the Messiah taught his disciples from the Old Scriptures. If we revere the Savior, we as his disciples, should revere the Holy Scriptures which he revered. He too, proved his doctrine by the ancient Scriptures, as is indicated in the following quotation: “Man shall not live by bread alone, but BY EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the MOUTH OF YAHWEH” (Deut. 8:3; Mt. 4:4, KJV). This includes Old Testament Scriptures in general and the Ten Commandments in particular. Paul agrees: ” … from a child thou hast known the HOLY SCRIPTURES which are able to make thee wise UNTO SALVATION through faith which is in Messiah Yahshua. ALL Scripture given by inspiration of Yahweh is PROFITABLE for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, and for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS: that the man of Yahweh may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto ALL good works” (2 Tim. 3:15-17. Did Paul refer to New Testament writings? No. He referred to the Torah (the Books of Moses), the prophets, the Psalms, and the “Writings” (the Old Testament). Be assured that Paul did not refer to his own writings as “Holy Scriptures.” Instead, he referred to the Old Testament. So let us remember: Paul says Old Testament Scriptures are profitable for establishing DOCTRINE, therefore we too are justified in searching the Old Scriptures to learn what is true. To better understand about the Soul of Man, let us now consult Scriptures which deal with the soul, and discover how the word is used. Old Testament Evidence: Astonishing Revelations About the Soul Gen 46:18 -Souls (KJV) Persons (RSV) Lev. 5:1,2 -Souls (KJV) Anyone (RSV) Lev. 5:4 -Souls (KJV) Anyone (RSV). Lev. 5:17 -Souls (KJV) Anyone (RSV). Lev. 7:21 -Souls (KJV) Person (RSV). Lev. 7:27 -Souls (KJV) Whoever (RSV). Lev. 20: 25 -Souls (KJV) Yourselves (RSV). Lev. 22:11 -Souls (KJV) Slave (RSV). Lev. 23:32 -Souls (KJV) Yoursleves (RSV). Num. 30:4 -Souls (KJV) Herself (RSV). Young's Concordance: When we look at the word SOUL in Young's Concordance, we find that the Hebrew word is NEPHESH, meaning “animal soul.” Here are some very revealing ways NEPHESH is translated in the King James Bible. Translated No. of Times Translated No. of Times Appetite 4 Soul 428 Beast 2 Thing 2 Body 2 Lust 2 Body 7 Creature 9 Dead (body) 8 Own 1 Desire 5 Will 4 Man 3 Fish 1 Mind 15 Life 119 Person 30 Self 19 Strong's Concordance: “nephesh #5315, a breathing creature, i.e. animal or (abstract) vitality, etc.” The Nephesh (Soul, Life) Is In the Blood As noted above, Nephesh is translated SOUL 428 times. However, it is translated LIFE 119 times. Let us at this time review some of the Scriptures in which Nephesh (soul) is translated life in the KJV. Gen. 9:3-5. “Every moving thing that liveth shall be meet [food] for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the LIFE [nephesh #5315, soul] thereof, WHICH IS THE BLOOD thereof, shall ye not eat. And surely your BLOOD of your LIVES [nephesh # 5315, soul] will I require: at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require LIFE [nephesh #5315, soul] of man.” Gen. 19:17-19. “Escape for you LIFE [nephesh #5315, soul]; look not behind thee, … lest thou be consumed. … Behold now, … though has magnified thy mercy which thou hast showed unto me in saving my LIFE” [nephesh #5315, soul]. Lev. 17:10-15. “And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the STRANGERS that sojourn among you, that EATETH ANY BLOOD; I will even set my face against that SOUL [nephesh] that EATETH BLOOD, and cut him off from among his people. For the LIFE [nephesh, soul] IS IN THE BLOOD: and I have given it to you upon the alter to, make an atonement for your SOULS [nephesh]: for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the SOUL [nephesh]. Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No SOUL [nephesh] of you shall eat BLOOD, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood. … For it is the LIFE [nephesh, soul] of ALL FLESH; the BLOOD of it is for the LIFE [NEPHESH, SOUL] IS THE BLOODA thereof: … And every SOUL [nephesh] that eateth …” (KJV). Num. 35:31. “Moreover you shall accept no ransom for the LIFE [nephesh, soul] of the murderer, … he shall be put to death” (RSV) Deut. 12:23. “Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: FOR the BLOOD IS the LIFE [nephesh, soul] with the Flesh” (KJV) 1 Sam 19:11. ” … and Michal … told him, If thou save not thy LIFE [nephesh, soul] tonight, tomorrow thou shalt be slain.” Job 2:6. “And Yahweh said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but SAVE HIS LIFE [nephesh, soul].” What is this? Satan, “a soul saver.” This seems humorous, but it helps in understanding the word nephesh (soul). Isa. 53:12. ” … because he hath POURED OUT HIS SOUL unto DEATH.” ECCL. 9:5. The DEAD KNKOW NOTHING at all. This brings to mind an illustration someone made regarding the common view that the DEAD are WISE and know EVERYTHING. Reason: because the “immortal soul” has gone to heaven. He said, “Hit a man on the head with a half pound hammer, and immediately he knows nothing at all because he becomes unconscious. But, hit a man on the head with a 10 pound hammer, and soon he knows EVERYTHING because he is dead. Foolish? Yes, indeed. But it shows the folly of believing the dead know everything, and are more ACUTELY ALIVE than the living ? than before death overtook them. Souls [Nephesh] Equal Persons It is interesting to notice that many Scriptures in which the King James Version uses the word SOUL, other versions use words which better convey the true meaning: PERSON, anyone, yourself, yourselves, he who, etc. For your convenience, here are listed a few of these Scriptures from both the KJV and the RSV. Gen 46:18 -Souls (KJV) Persons (RSV) Lev. 5:1,2 -Souls (KJV) Anyone (RSV) Lev. 5:4 -Soul (KJV) Anyone (RSV) Lev. 5:17 -Soul (KJV) Anyone (RSV) L ev. 7:21 -Soul (KJV) Person (RSV) Lev. 7:27 -Soul (KJV) Whoever (RSV) Lev. 20:25 -Soul (KJV) Yourselves (RSV) Lev. 22:11 -Soul (KJV) Slave (RSV). Lev. 23:32 -Soul (KJV) Yourselves (RSV). Num. 30:4 -Soul (KJV) Herself (RSV). NEPHESH (#5315, soul) is also translated “dead,” meaning “dead person” in the following Scriptures: Lev. 19:28; 21:1; 22-4; Num. 5:2; 6:11. Living Creatures: Fishes, Bugs, and Animals Are Souls (Nephesh) The Hebrew word NEPHESH (#5315) is in the King James Version translated LIVING CREATURE nine times. The interesting thing is, these “creatures” [nephesh, souls] are bugs, fishes, birds, and animals: * Living creatures (nephesh, souls) = fishes in the sea and birds of the air (Gen. 1:21). * Living creatures (nephesh, souls) = cattle of the field (Gen. 1:24). * Living creatures (nephesh, souls) = beasts of the earth (Gen. 1:24). * Adam named every LIVING CREATURES [nephesh, soul] (Gen. 2:19). * Every LIVING CREATURE [nephesh, soul] came out of the ark (Gen. 9:10, 12). * The rainbow was a covenant between YHWH and LIVING CREATURES [nephesh, souls] (Gen. 9:15, 16). * Man's food consists of living creatures (nephesh, souls); i.e. animals, fowls, and bugs, which are in the seas, or which creep upon the earth (Lev. 11:46). As you will remember, several Scriptures show that the LIFE is in the BLOOD. The blood itself is referred to as the soul. DEAD BODIES also, are souls. It is now easy to see that a breathing creature is a LIVING soul; and one who has breathed his last, is a DEAD soul. These Scriptures from the Old Testament are more than enough to show that the words SOUL and LIFE are often used interchangeable. The SOUL can refer to the whole person, the physical person, and to the BLOOD within a person. The soul can die from various causes. Again, let us stress these points: 1. The soul [nephesh] is the person, the human being (mail or female), and the living creatures. 2. The soul [nephesh] can die; can be killed by various means; by the sword, lack of food etc. 3. The LIFE [nephesh] is in the blood 4. Death results when the blood is poured out of the soul. 5. A dead body is a dead soul [nephesh]. New Testament Evidence Psuche = Life (Animal life, breath {Young's Concordance}) The Greek word in the New Testament from which “soul” is translated is PSUCHE. It appears in the Greek New Testament 103 times and, in the KJV, was translated: SOUL, 58 times; LIFE, 40 times; HEART, 1 time; and MIND, 3 times. Lk. 2:35 – A SWORD shall pierce thy soul (psuche obviously = body). Lk. 12:19 – His soul (psuche = person) enjoyed eating, drinking, and making merry. Lk. 12:20 – His soul (psuche = life) would be required of him that very night. Luke 12:19, 20. “And I will say to my soul [psuche], soul [psuche] thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But El said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul [psuche] shall be required of thee: …” We see in the New Testament, just as in the Old, that the soul enjoys eating and drinking. These verses could read as follows with no change in meaning: “I will say to myself: Man, you have ample goods laid up for many years; take your ease, eat, drink, be merry. But El said to him, 'Fool! This night your life will be required of you.'” The same Greek word (psuche, soul) appears as life in the following verses: Yahshua said, “Take no thought for your life {psuche}, what you shall eat; … The life {psuche} is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.” The Psuche (Soul) Can be Destroyed (Die) Mt. 3:10. “And now the axe is laid unto the Root of the trees; therefore, every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire”. Notice: it is the tree that is hewn down and BURNED, not just the FRUIT, of the tree. Mt. 3:12. “The chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.” So it is not that the wicked souls will only be SEPARATED from Yahweh. They will be DESTROYED in the fire ­­- BURNED UP – annihilated, cease to exist. Acts 3:23. The soul that does not hear, shall be destroyed. The New Scriptures, then, agrees with the Old: The soul that sinneth, it shall die; be destroyed. Not only will the soul be separated from Yahweh, but the soul will DIE – cease to live. James 5:20. A formula for saving a soul (a person) from death. 1 Pet. 3:20. Eight souls [persons, RSV] were saved by water. This refers to Noah and his family; physical human beings. Rev. 16:3. The SOULS {psuche} in the sea died because the sea became like the blood of a dead man. (The R.S.V. reads, “EVERY LIVING THING died that was in the sea”). This includes the fishes (souls). Rev 18:3-14. Tells about the souls (PSUCHE) lusting after trade goods, food, etc. This clearly shows the soul (the person) is not IMMORTAL. Man is very MORTAL, very human, and is dependent upon food, raiment, and shelter – the blessings of the earth. Does the Soul Leave the Body At Death? Some believe the souls of the righteous leave the body at death and go to heaven, and the souls of the wicked leave the body at death and go to hell. Is this really true? Let us consider: Yahshua was without sin, a righteous man. If righteous souls go to heaven at death, then Yahshua's soul should by all means have gone to heaven when he died. Again: If there ever was a soul which should have gone to heaven at death, then Yahshua's soul should have made the trip. Did this happen? No. Scriptures indicate Yahshua's soul went to hell – for three days and three nights (Acts 2:27-31). It did not go to heaven. Instead, it went to hell – the grave. This illustrates two significant points: 1. The souls of the righteous do not go to heaven when the person dies. 2. Generally speaking, the SOUL and the PERSON are one and the same thing. A “living soul” is a living person, and a “dead soul” is a dead person. The Good News is: Yahshua's soul (psuche) was not left in hell (Acts 2:31). He came forth from the grave after three days and three nights. Praise Yahweh! But to continue: Mt. 2:20. Arise, … for they are dead who sought the young child’s LIFE (psuche, soul). Mt. 16:25, 26. “For whoever will save his LIFE (psuche) shall lose it: and whoever shall loose his LIFE (psuche)? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his SOUL (psuche).” Both “LIFE” and “SOUL” appear twice in these verses. All four are translated from the same Greek word, PSUCHE. Here, “life” and “soul” can be interchanged with no loss of meaning. In fact, all are translated “life” in the following versions: American Standard Version Jerusalem Bible Berkeley Version Jewish New Testament Bible in Basic English New Revised Standard Version Concordant Version New World Translation Diaglott Revised Standard Version Emphasized Bible The Sacred Scriptures, Bethel Edition Good News Bible Weymouth Version We have seen people die; therefore we have seen with our own eyes that death is final. There is no part of man which lives on. All is lost; a total, TOTAL LOSS. One moment there is life, breath, thought, action. The next moment there I no breath, no thought, no life, no action. LIFE is replaced by Death. We have seen it, so we know, even without any outside help that were it not for the heavenly Father, death is the end. In fact, that is why Yahshua was offered as a ransom for us – because we DO NOT have immortality (Ezek. 18:4, 20). Immortality (everlasting life) is a gift of Yahweh (Rom. 6:23); a reward promised to the faithful (Rev. 2A:7, 11). We are to “seek for glory, honor, and immortality, eternal life” (Rom 2:7). We do not have immortality yet, but Yahshua has brought it to light; has made it known; has revealed it to us (2 Tim. 1:10). Therefore we now see how to achieve immortality. Again, man does not at this time possess immortality. Never once does the Bible speak of the “immortal soul.” These two words never appear together. Paul wrote that only Yahweh has immortality (1 Tim. 6:16). Therefore, no human being living today possesses immortality. We put on immortality only at the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:42-54). Summary We have found the Scriptures teach: 1. Soul and person are one and the same thing, generally speaking. 2. The life of the soul is the blood 3. When the blood is poured out, the result is death to the soul. 4. A living being is a living soul; a dead person is a dead soul. 5. When a person dies, the soul does not go to heaven. 6. A person (a human being) IS a soul, therefore: 7. A soul can die, give up life, cease to exist. Death is NOT life. Death is the opposite of life. In a moment of time a vital, living, intelligent being can be changed to a lifeless, dead body which knows nothing at all. It is the same with humans and with animals. All die and go to the same place – we return to dust, as Scriptures indicate: “For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beat … All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again” (Eccl. 3:19-20). Response to Objections Gen. 35:18. Perhaps some will refer to the death of Rachel. When we understand about the “soul” there is no problem or contradiction here. We have already seen that the soul refers to the life, as well as the body itself. So when life departed from Rachel, she died. Remember. This equivalent word was translated life 119 times in the KJV. It would have been completely proper to have written” … as her LIFE was departing (for she died) …” The meaning is the same. Rev. 6:9 & 20:4. John saw the souls of those who had been beheaded. The Diaglott reads, “I saw the persons of those who had been beheaded … “ Since SOUL means the “person” (the being), as well as “life” there is no problem in this passage. When Yahweh breathed into Adam’s nostrils, he became a LIVING soul; a LIVING BEING (RSV). Without breath, we become DEAD BEINGS, OR DEAD SOULS. Mt. 10:28. And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him who is about to destroy both SOUL and BODY in hell” (KJV). Many believe that some part of man is undying (immortal). If true, not even Yahweh can destroy it. But this scripture and many more say that Yahweh can and will destroy (kill, put to death) the SOULS THAT SIN; Ezek. 18:4, 20, 26; Acts 3:23; Mt.. 3:10; Ps. 37:10, 20, 36, 38; Rev. 20:14, 15; 2 Thes. 1:9; to name only a few. “Be not afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot destroy the {future} life; but rather fear Him who can utterly destroy both life and body in gehenna” (Mt. 10:28, Diaglott). Verse 39 reveals this is speaking of the future life (psuche): those who deny Yahshua here and now in order to save this present life will lose the future life, but those who lose the present life for the Messiah will find (everlasting) life (psuche) in the future. Man can kill the body but cannot kill in such a way as to prevent Yahweh from giving us a better resurrection (Heb. 11:35); that is, everlasting life, as Scriptures reveal: “He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death” (Rev. 2:10, 11). Please notice: There is no such thing as immortality separate and apart form Yahweh. He can destroy both soul and body in hell. Destruction is NOT everlasting life in hell. The wicked will one day cease to exist. They will be annihilated (Mt. 3:10-12; 13:30). 1 Thes. 5:23. “And the very El of peace sanctify you holy; and I pray El your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Savior Yahshua Messiah.” Keeping in mind the things we have learned above, let us write this sentence in other words, but with the same meaning: “ … I pray El your whole spirit [mind] and soul [psuche = life] and body be preserved …” Phil. 1:21-23. “For me to live is Messiah, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labor: Yet what I shall choose I I wot not. For I am in a strait betixt two, having a desire to depart, and be with Messiah, which is far better.” The Apostle Paul had been arrested by Jewish authorities in Jerusalem because he preached that Yahshua is the Messiah. He was forced to appeal to Ceasar. The letter to the Philippians was written in 64 C. E. while he was a prisoner in Rome (Phil.1:7, 12-24; 2 Tim. 1:16, 17). At his first trial before Caesar in C.E. 66, no one stood with Paul. All deserted him (2 Tim. 4:16-18). While writing this letter to the Philippians, Paul debated with himself whether he would (1) gain his freedom or (2) be executed. In either case, he belonged to Yahshua Messiah. Should he live, he would live for the Messiah. Should he be executed, he would die as a martyr for the Messiah. There was “gain” for him in doing so (Phil. 1:21). What is the gain Paul expected? Immediate entrance into Yahshua’s presence in heaven? No. The gain was a “better resurrection” (Heb. 11:35). Paul makes this clear in his continuing comments to the Philippians: “Indeed I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Messiah Yahshua my Savior. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as refuse, in order that I might gain Messiah and be found in him, … that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that IF POSSIBLE I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Messiah Yahshua has made me his own. Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of Yahweh in Messiah Yahshua” (Phil. 3:8-14, RSV). Now back to Phil. 1:23: Our English Versions appears to say that if Paul departed, he would have been immediately ushered into the presence of Yahshua. As noted above, this was not the case. He awaited the resurrection. Paul himself wrote that it is at the Messiah’s return that the resurrection occurs, and only then the “dead in Messiah will rise first, then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet Yahshua in the air; and so we shall always be with Yahshua” (1 Thes. 4:16, 17 RSV). What then, is the meaning of Phil. 1:23? The key to understanding is the word “depart” (Greek = analuo). This word appears only twice in the New Testament. The other time it is translated “return.” What? “Return” is the very opposite of “depart.” True, but look at the Scripture: “ … And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their master, when he will RETURN [analuo] from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. Blessed are those servants, whom the Master when he cometh shall find watching: …” (Luke 12:36, 37). We see that “analuo” is definitely related to the Messiah’s return, not his going away. There is other evidence indicating analuo should be translated return in Phil. 1:23. In consulting the Diaglott and the NIV Greek/English Interlinear, the correct message appears to be as follows: “For I am in a strait between two, having a desire for the return, and to be with Messiah; which is far better” [than either of the choices named in verse 21] (Phil. 1:23). The Interlinear does indeed contain the words, “for the.” English translations omit them, however. This could have happened in al sincerity, since most Bible scholars believe the soul goes to be with the Messiah immediately after death. Paul speaks of three things in particular in Phil. 1:21-23. 1. Paul might be executed. 2. Paul m ight be acquitted, and live to go free. 3. Paul longed for the return, so he could be with the Messiah. A Final Comment The view that man has within him an immortal soul which flits off to heaven or to hell at the death of the person is not a biblical doctrine. It has been adopted from the pagan religions. Believing in the immortality of the soul is one step toward believing in re-incarnation. Let us drop all paganism and believe the Sacred Writings which have been inspired by the Most High El – Yahweh (2 Tim. 3:14-17).V SOURCE that is not the topic here. dont you have some manners frank?

jammit,

Again, who died and made you the moderator of this from thread?

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,15:09)

Hi FRank, God can destroy the soul. Mt 10.28

Nick,

So, do you believe that all “souls” die? When you speak to someone in short as you do, one has no idea what it is that you are saying and in doing so, one can interpret what you say in diverse ways. You might want to consider answering the questions that I pose to you in your responses to me in greater detail so that I may ascertain what it is that you are saying. This would help considerably! No more one liners in response to me please? If you can not respond to me without using one liners, please do not respond to me at all.

[NickHassan]

Hi Frank,
No.
Those who are enlivened by the living Spirit sleep.

That is the hope of the saved.
They will sit at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

Matthew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,15:30)

Hi Frank, No. Those who are enlivened by the living Spirit sleep. That is the hope of the saved. They will sit at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Nick,

I believe that Mattithyah 10:28 is in reference to the second death, not when one first dies.

[jammin]

frank,
is that the teaching in your church?

you are truly the son of the devil

[charity]

Quote (jammin @ April 16 2012,16:43)

frank, is that the teaching in your church? you are truly the son of the devil

funny thing is…Thats a nasty little internal John comment. You have to love Jesus an not agree with John to be Allegeable for the honour.

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ April 16 2012,18:12)

Quote (terraricca @ April 15 2012,14:02) Quote (942767 @ April 15 2012,19:03) Quote (terraricca @ April 15 2012,11:40) Quote (942767 @ April 15 2012,18:04) Hi: Quote Hbr 11:3   Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.   In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Quote Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,   Hbr 1:2   Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; In John 1:1 the Word pertains to Jesus, but no, the Word is not Jesus but is that which God has spoken and embodies His plan, and this plan demonstrates God's character. Quote Jhn 3:16   For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.   Jhn 3:17   For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.   Quote 1Jo 1:1 ¶ That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;   1Jo 1:2   (For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)   Love in Christ, Marty Marty you have overlooked many scriptures why ? Hi T: I haven't ignored any scriptures.  I have selected some scriptures which show that “the Word” in John 1:1 is not Jesus as a pre-existent sentient person as has mistakenly been taught, but is what God has spoken and that it embodies His plan.   Again, this is to show that “the Word” in John 1:1 pertains to Jesus but is not Jesus as a pre-existent, sentient person. My interest is that both you and I teach the truth. Love in Christ, Marty Marty this would be one ;Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” about whom you think John  and John the bpt talking Hi T: The Word in John 1:1 and in John 1:14 is Logos which is defined as the Word that God has spoken.  He spoke from the beginning of the coming Messiah beginning with Genesis here as the seed of the woman: Quote Gen 3:15   And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.   In Exodus 12, we have the scriptures pertaining to the passover and the passover lamb which is symbolic of Jesus. There are many other scriptures in the OT which speak either symbolically or prophetically of Jesus. And so, to restate what I have already stated, “the Logos” is what God had spoken pertaining to Jesus and it embodies His plan.  In John 1:14 what God had stated pertaining to Jesus became flesh. As the bible relates, the Holy Ghost overshadowed the virgin Mary, and she conceived, and Jesus was born into the world. “The Word” is that which God has spoken.  In Hebrews 1 the scripture states that in these last days “God has spoken to us through His Son”.  What God has spoken is the Word of God Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

so God gives legs to his words

[NickHassan]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 16 2012,15:57)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,15:30) Hi Frank, No. Those who are enlivened by the living Spirit sleep. That is the hope of the saved. They will sit at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. Nick, I believe that Mattithyah 10:28 is in reference to the second death, not when one first dies.

Hi Frank,
Yes.
The fire prepared for the devil and his angels

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (jammin @ April 16 2012,16:43)

frank, is that the teaching in your church? you are truly the son of the devil

jammit,

I am not a part of any pagan “chuch”.

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 17 2012,17:22)

Quote (jammin @ April 16 2012,16:43) frank, is that the teaching in your church? you are truly the son of the devil jammit, I am not a part of any pagan “chuch”.

F

you probably have your own

[kerwin]

Quote (charity @ April 16 2012,19:12)

Quote (jammin @ April 16 2012,16:43) frank, is that the teaching in your church? you are truly the son of the devil funny thing is…Thats a nasty little internal John comment. You have to love Jesus an not agree with John to be Allegeable for the honour.

Charity,

What Jammin speaks in his lack of knowledge is nonsense but you are allowing the spirit of faultfinding to influence the words you write.  Why touch such an unclean thing.

If you sin you are of the devil; if you do not sin then you are of God.  There is only one way to be set truly free from committing sin and that is through faith in Jesus Christ.  If you reject that way then your actions testify that you are currently the child of the evil one because you love to sin.

There is no fault is such words as they are true.

[jammin]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 17 2012,10:22)

Quote (jammin @ April 16 2012,16:43) frank, is that the teaching in your church? you are truly the son of the devil jammit, I am not a part of any pagan “chuch”.

yes you are bec you dont know the true GOD.
and you dont know how to follow rules

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 17 2012,06:10)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 16 2012,15:57) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,15:30) Hi Frank, No. Those who are enlivened by the living Spirit sleep. That is the hope of the saved. They will sit at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. Nick, I believe that Mattithyah 10:28 is in reference to the second death, not when one first dies. Hi Frank, Yes. The fire prepared for the devil and his angels

Nick,

Not a fire of DESTRUCTION only “prepared for the devil and his angels”:

There are two RESURRECTIONS. In BOTH of these RESURRECTIONS the word 'RESURRECTION' means 'being brought back from the DEAD to LIFE', not LIFE in “soul sleep”. Abraham, Isaac and Yaaqob are part of the FIRST RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, not the second RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD

“If anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”

This verse is speaking about the second resurrection of the DEAD! “The devils and his angels” names most certainly would not have been found in the “Book of Life” which is clearly made known as follows:

And I saw the DEAD, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. The DEAD were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the DEAD that were in it, and DEATH and Hades [Hebrew – 'Sheol' which is the grave] gave up the DEAD that were in them, …

This is the second ressurection from the DEAD!

… and each person was judged according to what he had done.  Then DEATH and Hades [Hebrew 'Sheol' which is the grave] were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

It is clear that those of the second resurrection from the DEAD whose names were found in the Book of Life joined in life eternal with those of the first ressurection of the DEAD.

Note that this first ressurrection of the DEAD had already been mentioned previously in Revelation 20:4-6:

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Yahshua and because of the word of Yahweh. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They CAME TO LIFE and reigned with Messiah a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the DEAD did not come back to LIFE UNTIL the thousand years had ended.).

The word phrase “soul sleep” is not found anywhere in Scripture. This is simply a changing around of, twisting (“wrest”ing) of Father Yahweh's inspired word. This false belief in “soul sleep” comes from false theology, and is nowhere taught in Scripture! I could have sworn that you had said quite earliar that you do not support theological hypotisis' and accused others of doing so. As can be seen from the following source, it was John Calvin who first came up with the word phrase “soul sleep” and was further perpetuated by others:

Christian mortalism:

Since the phrase “soul sleep” does not occur either in the Bible or in early Anabaptist materials, an explanation is required for the origin of the term. …  “Soul sleep”The phrase soul sleep appears to have been popularised by John Calvin in the subtitle to his Latin tract Psychopannychia (manuscript Orléans 1534, Latin Strasbourg 1542, 2nd.ed. 1545, French, Geneva 1558, English 1581). The title of the booklet comes from Greek psyche (soul, mind) with pan-nychis (παν-νυχίς, all-night vigil, all-night banquet), so Psychopannychia, originally, represents Calvin's view, the one he was defending; that the soul was conscious, active.

The title and subtitle of the 1542 Strasbourg 1st edition read:

They live to Christ and do not sleep those souls of the saints who die in faith of Christ. Assertion.
The title and subtitle of the 1545 2nd Latin edition read:

Psychopannychia – Or a refutation of the error entertained by some unskillful persons, who ignorantly imagine that in the interval between death and the judgment the soul sleeps.
The 1558 French edition was a translation of that of the 1545 2nd edition:

Psychopannychie – traitté par lequel est prouvé que les âmes veillent et vivent après qu'elles sont sorties des corps ; contre l'erreur de quelques ignorans qui pensent qu'elles dorment jusque au dernier jugement..

“Psychopannychism”

In the Latin it is clearer that Psychopannychia is actually the refutation of, the opposite of, the idea of soul sleep. The French version, Psychopannychie – La nuit ou le sommeil de l'âme (“Psychopannychia – the night or the sleep of the soul”, Geneva 1558), may have caused the confusion that by -pannychis Calvin meant sleep (in Greek -hypnos not -pannychis, vigil). The French subtitle “le sommeil de l'âme” was taken up in German as Seelenschlaf (“soul-sleep”). The tract first appeared in English, translated by T. Stocker, as An excellent treatise of the Immortalytie of the Soule by John Calvin (London, 1581).

Luther's use of similar language (but this time defending the view) appears in print only a few years after Calvin:

“so the soul after death enters its chamber and peace, and sleeping does not feel its sleep” (Commentary on Genesis – Enarrationes in Genesin, 1535–1545).

“Hypnopsychism”

“Hypnopsychism” from hypno- + psyche (“sleep of soul”) was a more correct coinage from Greek than that of Calvin's editor. Eustratios of Constantinople (after 582) denounced mortalism as a heresy using this term.

“Thnetopsychism”

A possibly contrasting phrase is thnetopsychism (from Greek thnetos (mortal) + psyche (soul, mind)). However the term has its origin in the descriptions of Eusebius of Caesarea and John of Damascus of mortalist views among Arab Christians, In the 1960s also this phrase was applied also to the views of Tyndale, Luther and others engaged in mortal introspection, from awareness that Calvin's term Psychopannychia originally described his own belief, not the belief he was calling error as well as in view of the Anabaptists, since their own writings held that the soul dies and the dead sleep. Their view is that the soul dies, with the body to be recalled to life at the resurrection of the dead, or that the soul is not separate from the body and so there is no “spiritual” self to survive bodily death. In both cases, the deceased does not begin to enjoy a reward or suffer a punishment until Judgment Day.

Mortalist argumentsHistorically, Christian mortalists have advanced theological, lexical, and scientific arguments in support of their position.

Theological arguments

Some early eastern Christians argued for mortalism on the basis of the identity of blood with life in Leviticus 17:11. Theological arguments for mortalism
which contended it was not taught in the Bible were made by mortalists such as Francis Blackburne, Joseph Priestley, and Samuel Bourne. Mortalists such as Richard Overton advanced a combination of theological and philosophical arguments in favor of mortalism. Thomas Hobbes likewise made extensive use of theological argumentation. Some mortalists viewed their beliefs as a return to original Christian teaching. Mortalist theological arguments were also used to contest the Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory and masses for the dead.

Lexical arguments

In the late eighteenth century, the standard Hebrew lexicon and grammar of John Parkhurst expressed the view that the traditional rendering of the Hebrew word nephesh as reference to an immortal soul, had no lexical support. Mortalists in the nineteenth century used lexical arguments to deny the traditional doctrines of hell and the immortal soul.

Scientific arguments

The eighteenth century mortalist Henry Layton presented arguments based on physiology. Scientific arguments became important to the nineteenth century discussion of mortalism and natural immortality, and mortalist Miles Grant cited extensively from a number of scientists who observed that the immortality of the soul was unsupported by scientific evidence.

SOURCE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mortalism

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2012,10:42)

Quote (charity @ April 16 2012,19:12) Quote (jammin @ April 16 2012,16:43) frank, is that the teaching in your church? you are truly the son of the devil funny thing is…Thats a nasty little internal John comment. You have to love Jesus an not agree with John to be Allegeable for the honour. Charity, What Jammin speaks in his lack of knowledge is nonsense but you are allowing the spirit of faultfinding to influence the words you write.  Why touch such an unclean thing. If you sin you are of the devil; if you do not sin then you are of God.  There is only one way to be set truly free from committing sin and that is through faith in Jesus Christ.  If you reject that way then your actions testify that you are currently the child of the evil one because you love to sin. There is no fault is such words as they are true.

yes kerwin if you sin.. and if you dont know the true GOD.

[jammin]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 17 2012,12:16)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 17 2012,06:10) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 16 2012,15:57) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,15:30) Hi Frank, No. Those who are enlivened by the living Spirit sleep. That is the hope of the saved. They will sit at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. Nick, I believe that Mattithyah 10:28 is in reference to the second death, not when one first dies. Hi Frank, Yes. The fire prepared for the devil and his angels Nick, Not a fire of DESTRUCTION only “prepared for the devil and his angels”: There are two RESURRECTIONS. In BOTH of these RESURRECTIONS the word 'RESURRECTION' means 'being brought back from the DEAD to LIFE', not LIFE in “soul sleep”. Abraham, Isaac and Yaaqob are part of the FIRST RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, not the second RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD “If anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” This verse is speaking about the second resurrection of the DEAD! “The devils and his angels” names most certainly would not have been found in the “Book of Life” which is clearly made known as follows: And I saw the DEAD, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. The DEAD were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the DEAD that were in it, and DEATH and Hades [Hebrew – 'Sheol' which is the grave] gave up the DEAD that were in them, … This is the second ressurection from the DEAD! … and each person was judged according to what he had done.  Then DEATH and Hades [Hebrew 'Sheol' which is the grave] were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. It is clear that those of the second resurrection from the DEAD whose names were found in the Book of Life joined in life eternal with those of the first ressurection of the DEAD. Note that this first ressurrection of the DEAD had already been mentioned previously in Revelation 20:4-6: I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Yahshua and because of the word of Yahweh. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They CAME TO LIFE and reigned with Messiah a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the DEAD did not come back to LIFE UNTIL the thousand years had ended.). The word phrase “soul sleep” is not found anywhere in Scripture. This is simply a changing around of, twisting (“wrest”ing) of Father Yahweh's inspired word. This false belief in “soul sleep” comes from false theology, and is nowhere taught in Scripture! I could have sworn that you had said quite earliar that you do not support theological hypotisis' and accused others of doing so. As can be seen from the following source, it was John Calvin who first came up with the word phrase “soul sleep” and was further perpetuated by others: Christian mortalism: Since the phrase “soul sleep” does not occur either in the Bible or in early Anabaptist materials, an explanation is required for the origin of the term. …  “Soul sleep”The phrase soul sleep appears to have been popularised by John Calvin in the subtitle to his Latin tract Psychopannychia (manuscript Orléans 1534, Latin Strasbourg 1542, 2nd.ed. 1545, French, Geneva 1558, English 1581). The title of the booklet comes from Greek psyche (soul, mind) with pan-nychis (παν-νυχίς, all-night vigil, all-night banquet), so Psychopannychia, originally, represents Calvin's view, the one he was defending; that the soul was conscious, active. The title and subtitle of the 1542 Strasbourg 1st edition read: They live to Christ and do not sleep those souls of the saints who die in faith of Christ. Assertion. The title and subtitle of the 1545 2nd Latin edition read: Psychopannychia – Or a refutation of the error entertained by some unskillful persons, who ignorantly imagine that in the interval between death and the judgment the soul sleeps. The 1558 French edition was a translation of that of the 1545 2nd edition: Psychopannychie – traitté par lequel est prouvé que les âmes veillent et vivent après qu'elles sont sorties des corps ; contre l'erreur de quelques ignorans qui pensent qu'elles dorment jusque au dernier jugement.. “Psychopannychism” In the Latin it is clearer that Psychopannychia is actually the refutation of, the opposite of, the idea of soul sleep. The French version, Psychopannychie – La nuit ou le sommeil de l'âme (“Psychopannychia – the night or the sleep of the soul”, Geneva 1558), may have caused the confusion that by -pannychis Calvin meant sleep (in Greek -hypnos not -pannychis, vigil). The French subtitle “le sommeil de l'âme” was taken up in German as Seelenschlaf (“soul-sleep”). The tract first appeared in English, translated by T. Stocker, as An excellent treatise of the Immortalytie of the Soule by John Calvin (London, 1581). Luther's use of similar language (but this time defending the view) appears in print only a few years after Calvin: “so the soul after death enters its chamber and peace, and sleeping does not feel its sleep” (Commentary on Genesis – Enarrationes in Genesin, 1535–1545). “Hypnopsychism” “Hypnopsychism” from hypno- + psyche (“sleep of soul”) was a more correct coinage from Greek than that of Calvin's editor. Eustratios of Constantinople (after 582) denounced mortalism as a heresy using this term. “Thnetopsychism” A possibly contrasting phrase is thnetopsychism (from Greek thnetos (mortal) + psyche (soul, mind)). However the term has its origin in the descriptions of Eusebius of Caesarea and John of Damascus of mortalist views among Arab Christians, In the 1960s also this phrase was applied also to the views of Tyndale, Luther and others engaged in mortal introspection, from awareness that Calvin's term Psychopannychia originally described his own belief, not the belief he was calling error as well as in view of the Anabaptists, since their own writings held that the soul dies and the dead sleep. Their view is that the soul dies, with the body to be recalled to life at the resurrection of the dead, or that the soul is not separate from the body and so there is no “spiritual” self to survive bodily death. In both cases, the deceased does not begin to enjoy a reward or suffer a punishment until Judgment Day. Mortalist argumentsHistorically, Christian mortalists have advanced theological, lexical, and scientifi c arguments in support of their position. Theological arguments Some early eastern Christians argued for mortalism on the basis of the identity of blood with life in Leviticus 17:11. Theological arguments for mortalism which contended it was not taught in the Bible were made by mortalists such as Francis Blackburne, Joseph Priestley, and Samuel Bourne. Mortalists such as Richard Overton advanced a combination of theological and philosophical arguments in favor of mortalism. Thomas Hobbes likewise made extensive use of theological argumentation. Some mortalists viewed their beliefs as a return to original Christian teaching. Mortalist theological arguments were also used to contest the Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory and masses for the dead. Lexical arguments In the late eighteenth century, the standard Hebrew lexicon and grammar of John Parkhurst expressed the view that the traditional rendering of the Hebrew word nephesh as reference to an immortal soul, had no lexical support. Mortalists in the nineteenth century used lexical arguments to deny the traditional doctrines of hell and the immortal soul. Scientific arguments The eighteenth century mortalist Henry Layton presented arguments based on physiology. Scientific arguments became important to the nineteenth century discussion of mortalism and natural immortality, and mortalist Miles Grant cited extensively from a number of scientists who observed that the immortality of the soul was unsupported by scientific evidence. SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mortalism

what is the connection in john 1.1

i think this boy should go back to elementary and study how to read.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (jammin @ April 17 2012,12:15)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 17 2012,10:22) Quote (jammin @ April 16 2012,16:43) frank, is that the teaching in your church? you are truly the son of the devil jammit, I am not a part of any pagan “chuch”.   yes you are bec you dont know the true GOD. and you dont know how to follow rules

jammit,

Your mommy has got your bah bah all warmed up for you. Now be a good little baby boy … AND GO TO SLEEP YOU NOISEY LITTLE BRAT!

[jammin]

could you pls answer first my question

what is the connection of your post to the topic?

[Author]

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