JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[charity]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,08:06)

Hi KW, The old man includes the flesh which will degrade or be changed. God relies on us receiving and being reeducated in our minds by the Spirit. Sons of God are led by the Spirit of God

Its all just fine to say these words time an time again Nik, but look at the results, how different would it have been if Jesus was given control an had of ruled love..everyone fights about how an what he was…I think Jesus should been able to finish what he was saying…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

The Word, Someone Or Something? Part I

In this lesson we will deal with the Book of Saint John or more specifically St John chapter 1 verses 1 through 18. Before we get started let’s look at some historical information.
Yeshua death, burial, resurrection and ascension are generally agreed upon by biblical scholars to have occurred between 26 CE and 36 CE. Since the calendar we have today have been through changes the exact year is hard to say. Several analyses based on astronomical data and computer simulations set the year at 33 CE.
The book of john is said to have been written nearly 30 years after Matthew, Mark and Luke, somewhere between 70 and 96 CE by John one of the 12 disciples. Let’s look at the reason why John (Yochanan) even wrote his evangel.
John 20:30 Therefore many other signs Yeshua also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31but these have been written so that you may believe that Yeshua is the Messiah, the Son of Elohim
Yochanan wrote his evangel so that everyone who read it would come to the conclusion that Yeshua is the Messiah and son of Elohim (YHWH), not that he was YHWH! All the info we just read will play an important key in understanding the verses we are about to go over. Please keep everything in mind! Let’s take a look at the verses we are going to be going over. ; and that believing you may have life in His name.
John 1:1-18 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5
And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not.
6There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him. 8He was not the light, but came that he might bear witness of the light. 9There was the true light, even the light which lighteth every man, coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13
who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth. 15John beareth
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witness of him, and crieth, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that cometh after me is become before me: for he was before me.
16For of his fulness we all received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Yeshua Messiah. 18
This is a traditional translation of these successions of verses. Amongst trinitariansNo man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (American Standard Version)
1 and ditheists2, this is a very important chain of verses. Groups such as these falsely interpret these first few verses (also known as The Prologue of John's Gospel
Upon investigation of the Greek language, the language from which the Apostolic Writings (New Testament) was translated, it is found that such concepts are not supported by these verses. Further more, the Hebrew Scriptures (the foundation) does not support the false interpretation presented by trinitarians and ditheists! Let’s go to the Tanakh/Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) to see what it says. Now, according to the Tanakh YAH IS ONE, ) of the evangel of Yochanan to support their belief that Yeshua (jesus) is/existed as YHWH, God the Son, the Spokesperson, an angel, a godlike being or some type of conscience entity. Is this an accurate translation and interpretation on these verses? Is Yochanan trying to tell us that Yeshua is the one true “GOD?” Why did John write his gospel? For the answer please refer back to John 20:30-31.
not two or three
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: !
YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is one
Psalm 83:18 That men may know that thou, .
whose name alone is YHWH
Nechemyahu (Nehemiah) confirms both statements in Deut 6:4 and Psalm 83:18 when he writes… , art the most high over all the earth.
Nehemiah 9:6 Thou (singular), even thou, art YHWH alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all
This verse not only contradicts the false doctrine that there are 2 YHWHs, but it also confirms that YHWH is one and that He created everything. He created everything by Himself (ALONE), not Him and another! ; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith YAH, thy redeemer, and he (singular) that formed thee from the womb, I (singular) am YAH that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself
These verses show that YAH was the Creator of the universe and all that’s in it (Gen 2:4, Ex 20:11). He did it ALONE (see “Who is The Creator” and “Genesis 1:26 – Let Us .
1 Trinitarians are those who believe in a tri-unity or triune god, namely the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The doctrine of the “trinity” or “triunity of God” refers to the idea that “there is one God, eternally existent in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit” or somehow “triune/3” at the same time that He is “one.” The three “persons,” according to the classical dogma, are “co-equal, co-eternal, co-omniscient,” etc., i.e. equal in every way, but they are also distinct from each other, each “person” having a discrete existence and function of his own. Because the Son has a discrete existence of his own, he is not identical to, i.e. the same person as, the Father yet they are still one God; hence the idea of the “plurality of the godhead.” HUH!?!
2A person who practices ditheism (noun) which is: 1. the doctrine of or belief in two equally powerful gods or deities. 2. belief in the existence of two independent antagonistic principles, one good and the other evil, as in Zoroastrianism. Ditheist do not believe in the trinity, because they do not recognize the holy spirit to be a member of the “godhead.” Yet, they still believe that Yeshua (jesus) existed in some form or another as a member of “the godhead” before his birth. This is known historically as Arianism or a form of it. Groups such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, IOG (Israel of God) and the AOY (Assemblies Of Yahweh) hold to this doctrine.
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Review The Matter”). The only ones present were the b’nai elohim/sons of God (celestrial beings/angels) after they were created (Job 38:4-8).
Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
2 Samuel 7:22 “For this reason You are great, O Adonai YHWH; for there is none like You, and there is no Elohim but You, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
2 Kings 19:15 And Hezekiah prayed before YHWH, and said, O YHWH, Elohim of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the Elohim, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.
Psalm 86:9-11 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Adonai; and shall glorify thy name. 10For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art Elohim alone. 11Teach me thy way, O YHWH; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.
Jer 10:10
Nowhere in the Tanakh will a doctrine being taught that YHWH is three persons, beings or entities! Neither will you see it taught that YHWH had a co-ruler or co-creator with Him. Yeshua and the apostles confirm that
YHWH is the only true Elohim as taught in the Tanakh! But YHWH is the true Elohim; He is the living El and the everlasting King At His wrath the earth quakes, And the nations cannot endure His indignation
Mark 12:29
Yeshua identified his/our Elohim YHWH as being one not two or three! Yeshua answered, “The first is, 'Hear, O Israel: YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is one;
John 17:1,3 Yeshua spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father…3
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one Elohim, and one mediator between Elohim and men, the man Christ Jesus; “This is eternal life, that they may know You (the Father), the only true God (elohim/power), and Yeshua the Anointed whom You have sent.
James 2:19
1 Corinthians 8:5-6 “even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, You believe that Elohim is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
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The Father alone is the true Elohim/God and His name is YHWH! (see “Hebraic Usage Of God”). There is no room for a trinity, bi-entity or two gods in the Tanakh! As we saw, no one aided YHWH the Father in creation nor was there another god/elohim by His side. Scripture cannot be broken! Let’s go back to John 1:1-2. yet for us there is but one Elohim, the Father…”
John 1:1-2 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God.
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Trinitarians and ditheist see this verse as proof that Yeshua indeed preexisted as God and was with God (YHWH) as a part of a “godhead,” However this verses does not say:
John 1:1-2 1In the beginning was the Son/Yeshua, and the Son/Yeshua was with God/YHWH, and the Son/Yeshua was God/YHWH. 2
Yet these groups want us to believe this is the case. They say since the word “word” is capitalized and in the following verses “he” is used that it is a person. Furthermore, they state that he had a hand in creating based on John 1:2-3. How can this be, in light of what the Tanakh says? These presuppositions are read into the text. Let’s see what’s really going on. The same was in the beginning with God/YHWH.
εν
αρχη
ην
`ο
λογος
και
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λογος
en
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logos
kai
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logos
in
the beginning
was
the
word
and
the
word
1722
746
1510
01
3056
2532
01
3056
ην
προς
τον
θεον
και
θεος
ην
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λογος
en
pros
ton
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kai
theos
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logos
was
toward
the
God
and
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was
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1510
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This verse is taken from Paul R. McReynolds’ “Word Study Greek-English New Testament w/Complete Concordance” Bible. As you can see, it’s keyed up with the Strong’s Concordance. The word “word” is translated from the Greek word “logos.” It has been said that the word logos means spokesperson or mouthpiece by those who promote a preexistent Messiah. What does “logos” mean? According to the Greek Lexicon to the New Testament “logos” means…
Strong's #3056 logos λογος log'-os
1. of speech
a. a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
b. what someone has said
1. a word
2. the sayings of God
3. decree, mandate or order
4. of the moral precepts given by God
5. Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
6. what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
c. discourse
1. the act of speaking, speech
2. the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
3. a kind or style of speaking
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4. a continuous speaking discourse – instruction
d. doctrine, teaching
e. anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
f. matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
g. the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed
2. its use as respect to the MIND alone
a. reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
b. account, i.e. regard, consideration
c. account, i.e. reckoning, score
d. account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
e. relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation
1. reason would
f. reason, cause, ground
Logos – from the Liddell-Scott-Jones Greek Lexicon:
• Logos; logos, ho: (A) the word or that by which the inward thought is expressed (Latin: oratio), and, (B) the inward thought itself (Latin: ratio.)
• Latin: vox, oratio, that which is said or spoken.
• Latin: ratio, thought, reason.
• Ho LOGOS, the Logos or Word, comprising both senses of Thought and Word. (New Testament.)
Logos is translated a variety of ways in the King James Version a total of 330 times:
word 225, saying 50, account 8, speech 8, thing 5, not translated 2, miscellaneous 32
As you can see, the word “logos” in so many words means “the outward expression of thought,” a “saying or speech” hence “word.” It appears over 300 times in the Apostolic Writings and is only capitalized (wrongly) as a person in John 1. The capital is an editorial addition of translators. This word “logos” was used in the Septuagint (LXX – the Greek translation of the Tanakh done by Israelites around 200 BCE) as a translation for the word “dabar” some 1500 times. It never describes a literal person. This is important because, in order to have a proper understanding of the word logos we must first have a proper understanding of the word dabar; the Hebrew word for which logos was based on. Remember Yochanan was a Hebrew and wrote from a Hebraic perspective, NOT Greek! Let’s look at the meaning of dabar (modern Heb. devar). The Hebrew Lexicon to the Old Testament states the following.
Strong’s #H1697 dabar rbd daw-baw'
1. speech, word, speaking, thing
a. speech
b. saying, utterance
c. word, words
d. business, occupation, acts, matter, case, something, manner (by extension)
The Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary defines “dabar” as such.
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“Dabar is the primary Hebrew expression for “word.” It has various meanings and can refer to a spoken utterance, a saying, a command, a speech, or a story—linguistic communication in general. 3
Dabar is translated a variety of ways in the King James Version a total of 1439 times:
word 807, thing 231, matter 63, acts 51, chronicles 38, saying 25, commandment 20, miscellaneous 204
Based on the definitions given, the basic Hebraic meaning of “dabar” is “the express communication of thoughts into words.” For example the phrase “the word (dabar) of YAH” simply means “the expressed thoughts, oracles or commands of YAH.” Scriptural examples:
Gen 15:1 After these things (dabar) the word (dabar) of YHWH came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
In this verse dabar is translated things and word.
Ex 34:28 And he was there with YHWH forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words (dabar) of the covenant, the ten commandments (dabar).
In this verse dabar is translated as commandments and words. This also shows that YAH’s words and commandments are synonymous (Ps 103:20, Ps 119:172). YAH’s dabar (or logos) in Greek is His expressed thoughts, spoken word or command! The verification of this is very simple. Please refer to any good English Dictionary. Under the word 'Decalogue' you will find the meaning; “The Ten Commandments”, (deka = ten; logous = commands). The dictionary also translates the word 'Logos' as “discourse, reason, (rarely) word”.
Since the “word” i
s the spoken thoughts or commands of YHWH it could not be a second member of the “godhead.” So what about the phrase ³και θεος ην `ο λογος (kai theos en ho logos)” translated “the word was god” or “god was the word?” Based on the grammar of the Greek, Yochanan is not trying to say the word is “God (YHWH).” John uses ho theos when speaking about the one true God YHWH but here the definite article “ho (the)” is missing. It’s not present because here “theos” is considered a predicate or adjective of the preceding subject. Theos is used to describe the nature, quality, attribute or property of the subject which is the “word.” In this instance the One true Elohim's spoken command or thoughts is divine, powerful or mighty. A more literal translation would read:
In the beginning was the word (spoken thoughts/command), and the word (spoken thoughts/command) was with Elohim, and the word (spoken thoughts/command) was divine/powerful/mighty.
This translation is based upon the usage of the Greek grammar and structure and the Hebraic understanding. There are translations that do not follow the traditional Trinitarian influence! Some examples are:
Bible – James Moffatt Translation, The: “The Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine.”
3 The Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary, pg. 1682.
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Complete Bible – An American Translation (Smith-Goodspeed), The: “In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.
Authentic New Testament, The: “In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. So the Word was divine.”
Scriptures (ISR), The: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Elohim, and the Word was Elohim
.”
Theos is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word “elohim.” Elohim is a Hebrew word that can be used as a noun, adjective or predicate. For example:
Genesis 30:8 So Rachel said, “With mighty (Heb. elohim) wrestlings I have wrestled with my sister, and I have indeed prevailed.” And she named him Naphtali.
1 Samuel 14:15 And there was a trembling in the camp, in the field, and among all the people. Even the garrison and the raiders trembled, and the earth quaked so that it became a great (Heb. elohim) trembling.
Genesis 23:6 Hear us, my lord: thou art a mighty (Heb. elohim) prince among us: in the choice of our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee his sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead.
For more on this subject see “The Hebraic Usage Of God.” The Most High’s word was with Him in the beginning the same way his wisdom was with Him.
Proverbs 8:1 “Does not wisdom call, And understanding lift up her voice? 2On top of the heights beside the way, Where the paths meet, she takes her stand; 3Beside the gates, at the opening to the city, At the entrance of the doors, she cries out…22″YHWH possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. 23″From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. 24″When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. 25″Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth; 26While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world. 27″When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, 28When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, 29When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth; 30
Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him,”
Now if you noticed wisdom is depicted as a woman separate from YHWH and said to be with Him. Oddly no one argues that wisdom was a member of a godhead. Why not? Because students of the bible recognize that wisdom is simply an attribute of YHWH being personified. Remember YHWH said…
Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” declares YHWH,” And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
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Now you might be saying, but John/Yochanan used “He” when referring to the “logos (word)” in John 1:2-4. Again, the Greek word logos is a something not a someone. Let’s look at John 1:2-5 and see what it says.
John 1:2 The same (outou – 3778) was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him (autou – 846); and without him (autou – 846) was not any thing made that was made. 4In him (autw – 846) was life; and the life was the light of men. 5
There are two Greek words in this sentence that are very important. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it (auto – 846) not. (KJV)
3778. houtos outoj hoo'-tos from the article 3588 and 846; 1) this, these, etc.
846 autos
autoj ow-tos' 1) himself, herself, themselves, itself 2) he, she, it 3) the same.
Now if you will notice, Yochanan (John) uses the Greek word autos 4 times in these set of verses. It is translated 3 times as “him” and 1 time as “it.” Now, ask yourself, why did translators translate autos “he” then turn around and translate it as “it” if they’re still talking about the same “word” in verse 5? Based on the word “autos” is speaking of determines how it should be translated. Since we already know that “logos” is a something and NOT a someone, “autos” should have been translated “it” in all 4 occurrences. So actually this verse should read…
John 1:3 All things were made by it (autou – 846); and without it (autou – 846) was not any thing made that was made. 4In it (autw – 846) was life; and the life was the light of men. 5
This translation is HISTORICALLY how this verse was originally translated in the earlier English Bibles before the KJV. William Tyndale gave us our first English translation based upon the Hebrew and Greek (not the Latin Vulgate). His New Testament was published in 1526 and revised to its final state in 1534. Tyndale's translation of John 1:3-4 reads: And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it (auto – 846) not.
John 1:3,4 – All things were made by it, and without it, was made nothing that was made. In it
As you can see, Tyndale used ” was life, and the life was the light of men.
it
John 1:3-4 All things were made by ” instead of “him.” He understood that the word or logos is an it and not a him. In 1537, John Rogers, using the pseudonym “Thomas Matthew,” published a translation known as Matthew's Bible. He uses “it” in John 1:3-4. The Great Bible followed in 1539 and it uses “it” instead of “him.” The Geneva Bible of 1560 uses “it” instead of “him.” The actual verses in the Geneva Bible read as such:
it, and without it was made nothing that was made. In it
Another translation that doesn’t follow the traditional Catholic/Christianity trinity bias translations is the Emphatic Diaglott (translated in 1865 by B.F. Wilson). It reads: was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not. (The Geneva Bible)
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John 1:1 In the Beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with GOD, and the Logos was God. 2This was in the Beginning with GOD. 3Through it every thing was done; and without it not even one thing was done, which has been done. 4In it was Life; and the LIFE WAS the LIGHT of MEN. 5
This is one of the better translations of these verses I’ve read. Plus, based on the whole of the Scriptures, this is the most accurate. Remember, line upon line, precept upon precept. Let’s see how this translation lines up with the Tanakh.
And the LIGHT shone in DARKNESS; and the DARKNESS apprehended It not.
So what is Yochanan telling us in these verses? When one remembers the definition of dabar and logos, you can easily see how the “word (thoughts expressed verbally or and outward expression of inward thoughts and reason; a command) can be in the beginning; just as wisdom was in the beginning (Prov 8:22-31). One author (identity unknown) wrote…
“Similar language is found in Proverbs chapter eight where wisdom is personified as a woman. In fact, wisdom is personified as a woman throughout the opening chapters of Proverbs. However, in this particular place there is a definite parallel expression of idea with that contained in Genesis one and John one for in verse 22 we have the following: “YHWH possessed (or created as the Hebrew word primarily means — see Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance #7069.) me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old.” Note the phrase “in the beginning!” Now read verses 23-36 noting verse 30 and comparing this with John 1:1-2. Throughout these verses wisdom is talking as a woman existing separately from and throughout the same time period as YHWH. However, it is quite obvious that this must be figurative language representing YHWH’s wisdom itself and not really a separate being. Of course, maybe we should adopt the theory that there are really four persons in the godhead instead of three and that the fourth one is a woman named Wisdom! By the way, did you pay particular attention to verse 30 as was directed above? It says,
‘Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before Him;’”
YHWH’s word and wisdom are attributes of His that was with Him and is Him. His word is powerful, divine and mighty because it is His word. Plain & simple! Now let’s look at John 1:3.
John 1:3 – All things were made by it, and without it
How did YAH create the universe? Again, we must go to the Hebrew Scriptures for the answer to this question. , was made nothing that was made.
Psalm 148:5 Let them praise the name of YHWH: for He commanded, and they were created.
This verse tells us that YAH command the universe to come into existence. To command means to give the word or charge.
Psalm 33:6 By the word (dabar) of YHWH were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 33:9For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
Again, YAH spake and used the words and breath of His mouth to create the universe. This can be verified by simply going back to the beginning.
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Gen 1:3 And Elohim said, “Let there be light: and there was light.”
This verse shows YAH creating by speaking or giving the command. And yes, this is YAH (see “Who Is The Creator?”). Throughout Genesis this is how YAH created the universe (Gen.1:3,6,9,11,14,20, and 24). All these passages began with the statement, “And Elohim said.” YHWH spoke and it was done. Even the writer of Hebrews confirms that YAH used His word to create the universe.
Hebrews 11:3 By trusting, we understand that the universe was created through a spoken word of God, so that what is seen did not come into being out of existing phenomena. (CJB)
This understanding agrees perfectly with John 1:3. Remember “dabar” and “logos” means an outward expression of inward thoughts or reason. This is exactly what Proverbs tells us YAH used when He created.
Prov 3:19 YHWH by wisdom (chokmah) hath founded the earth; by understanding (tabunah) hath he established the heavens.
Finally…
John 1:4 – In it
This verse can be understood in light of verses like… (the logos/dabar/word) was life, and the life was the light of men.
Psalm 119:50 This is my comfort and consolation in my affliction: that Your word (dabar) has revived me and given me life. (AMP)
Psalm 119:107 I am sorely afflicted; renew and quicken me [give me life], O YHWH, according to Your word (dabar)! (AMP)
Ps 119:105 NUN. Thy word (dabar) is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. (KJV)
Now notice something, John uses the same speech in his epistle when speaking about the word.
1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Yeshua Messiah. 4
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. (KJV)
1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Yeshua Messiah. 4
And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete. (ESV)
John is once again talking about the same word that was in the beginning with the Father in the intro of his second book/first epistle. Now oddly, no one ever uses these verse to argue a preexistant Yeshua (Jesus), why? Could it be, because here
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translator properly translated the word as an it and a that instead of as a him even though in the KJV they still capitalize “word.”
John 1:1-5 is talking about YHWH’s spoken word! To come to any other conclusion or understanding of John 1:1-5 will only cause contradictions and confusion. The Tanakh as well as the Apostolic Writings plainly tells us that YHWH the Father is the only true Elohim. It also states that He created the universe by Himself through His spoken word!
Peace & Blessings
Amar
2/5/10

[Frank4YAHWEH]

The Word, Someone Or Something? Part II
Continuing where we left off in the Book of Saint John, we will be picking up at verse 6. Before we get started again let‘s recap some info. First let‘s look at our historical information again. We discovered Yeshua‘s death, burial, resurrection and ascension is said to have occurred between 26 CE and 36 CE.
We saw the book of john was said to have been written nearly 30 years after Matthew, Mark and Luke, somewhere between 70 and 96 CE by John one of the 12 disciples.
We learned the purpose of John‘s evangel was to prove Yeshua is the Messiah and son of Elohim and not YHWH Elohim!
John 20:30 Therefore many other signs Yeshua also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31but these have been written so that you may believe that Yeshua is the Messiah, the Son of Elohim; and that believing you may have life in His name. We saw that the word translated word is logos, from the Hebrew dabar, and that it means ―thoughts expressed verbally or an outward expression of inward thoughts and reason; a command.‖ Which shows the word is a something and not a someone. We learned that by this powerful word YHWH created the universe (John 1:3).
Psalm 33:6 By the word of YHWH were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 33:9For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
Hebrews 11:3 By trusting, we understand that the universe was created through a spoken word of God, so that what is seen did not come into being out of existing phenomena. (CJB) We also saw that YAH‘s word is our light and life for us (John 1:4).
Psalm 119:50 This is my comfort and consolation in my affliction: that Your word (dabar) has revived me and given me life. (AMP)
Ps 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. (KJV)
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This brings us up to speed. Remember all the info we just read will play an important key in understanding the verses we are about to go over. Please keep everything in mind! Now let‘s look at the next set of verses.
6There came a man, sent from Elohim, whose name was John.
Okay now John switches gears and starts to tell a story.
7The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him.
So we see that John is writing now about John the Baptist and him bearing witness to the light. The light that John was a witness to was Yeshua.
8He was not the light, but came that he might bear witness of the light. 9There was the true light, even the light which lighteth every man, coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not.
Now right here Trinitarians and the such will say ―see it states the world was created through Yeshua proving he is the Creator and God.‖ This interpretation is a direct contradiction to the whole of Scripture! The Scriptures teach that YHWH the Father is the sole Creator of everything that exist as we saw in part I. See ―Who Is The Creator?‖ for more details. So if YHWH is the Creator by Himself why does this verse say the world was made through him (in some versions it says ―made by him)? Translators of the new testament often translate the verses on preconceived ideas and traditions! Let‘s look at the word translated ―by‖ & ―through.‖ The Greek word is dia and it has several applications.
1223. dia διά dee-ah' a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal, or occasional):–after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) … fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through(-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general importance. Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 646 AV — by 241, through 88, with 16, for 58, for … sake 47, therefore + 5124 44, for this cause + 5124 14, because 52, misc 86
As you can see I highlighted the word ―for‖ in the definition above. In the KJV ―dia‖ was translated ―for‖ 58 times. For example:
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for1223 my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Again the Greek word is used the same in Mark.
Mark 2:27 Yeshua said to them, “The Sabbath was made for1223 man, and not man for1223 the Sabbath.
To imply that Yeshua had a hand in creation would conflict with hundreds of scriptures that explicitly states that YHWH the Father is the sole Creator of everything! John 1:10 should read:
10He was in the world, and the world was made for1223 him, and the world knew him not.
Everything was centered around and done for the coming Messiah and Son of YHWH from the beginning. This is the proper understanding since Yeshua is said to be ―heir to all things (Heb 1:2).‖ Continuing on.
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11He came unto his own (Israel), and they (Israel) that were his own received him not. 12But as many as received him (accepted him as the Messiah), to them gave he the right to become children of Elohim, even to them that believe on his name:
All those who accepted Yeshua as the Messiah and came under his name he gave them access to become sons and daughters of YHWH.
13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of Elohim.
This verse is self explanatory.
14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
This verse along with John 1:1-5 is known as the ―Incarnation‖ in Christian theological circles. This is the highlight of Christology. So what is the incarnation? The Catholic Encyclopedia states:
The Incarnation is the mystery and the dogma of the Word made Flesh. ln this technical sense the word incarnation was adopted, during the twelfth century, from the Norman-French, which in turn had taken the word over from the Latin incarnatio. The Latin Fathers, from the fourth century, make common use of the word; so Saints Jerome, Ambrose, Hilary, etc. The Latin incarnatio (in: caro, flesh) corresponds to the Greek sarkosis, or ensarkosis, which words depend on John (1:14) kai ho Logos sarx egeneto, “And the Word was made flesh”. These two terms were in use by the Greek Fathers from the time of St. Irenæus–i.e. according to Harnack, A.D. 181-189 (cf. Irenaeus, “Adv. Haer.” III, 19, n. i.; Migne, VII, 939). The verb sarkousthai, to be made flesh, occurs in the creed of the Council of Nicaea (cf. Denzinger, “Enchiridion”, n. 86).
According to the catholic encyclopedia the incarnation is a mystery and dogma. Wonder why you never see this word in Scripture? Because it doesn‘t exist in the Scriptures, it is a made up word!
―The Incarnation of the Son of God is the terminology used to describe what happened when the second person of the Trinity, the eternal Son of God, “became flesh” as he was miraculously conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary according to the Bible. In the incarnation, the divine nature of the Son was perfectly united with human nature in one divine Person. This person, Yeshua Christ, was both “truly God and truly man.” – Theopedia
This is a doctrine of tradition and not of truth solidified by the council of Nicea (see ―The Evolution Of The Trinity Doctrine‖ & ―Does Yeshua Have Two Natures‖). As we established, YHWH‘s word is a something and not a someone. YHWH‘s word is His utterance of his inner thoughts. It is his commandments! This is what became flesh or reality! Yeshua is the embodiment of YHWH‘s thoughts and commandments. He represents everything that YAH‘s word is. When the word became flesh only then did the word become a person.
John 1:14 And the word (spoken thought/command/utterance) was made flesh, and dw
elt among us… (KJV)
Trinitarians and Ditheist want us to believe some spirit being named the Word (who is the second member of the godhead) came down from heaven jumped in the womb of Mary as a seed and then grew as a fetus and was finally born as a baby. You can‘t find that nowhere in prophecy! The Bible clearly shows Yeshua had a beginning. Yeshua‘s beginning was when he was conceived!
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Luke 1:30 The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Miryam; for you have found favor with Elohim. 31″And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Yeshua. 32″He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High;
So we see here the word being given that Mary would have a son whose name would be Yeshua. Notice also, it states he will be called the Son of the Most High (future tense) not he is the Son of the Most High (present tense). Continuing…
…and YAH Elohim will give Him the throne of His father Dawid;
Here we see Yeshua‘s father is said to be David! (see ―Yeshua, The Son David‖)
33and He will reign over the house of Ya‘acob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.” 34Mariam said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?” 35The angel answered and said to her, “The ruach qodesh will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of Elohim…
Again, Yeshua shall be called the Son of Elohim (future tense)! Now watch what takes place.
37″For nothing will be impossible with Elohim.” 38And Miryam said, “Behold, the bondslave of YAH; may it be done to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.
Matthew confirms that this was Yeshua‘s beginning. In fact, the Greek text of Matthew 1:18 says that very clearly.
―Now the beginning of Yeshua Messiah was in this manner.‖
The Greek uses the word ―genesis (γένεζις)‖ Strong's #G1078 for the word ―beginning.‖ 1) source, origin a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated 2) used of birth, nativity 3) of that which follows origin, viz. existence, life a) the wheel of life (Jas 3:6), other explain it, the wheel of human origin which as soon as men are born begins to run, i.e. its course of life
The word ―genesis (γένεζις)‖ means origin, source, beginning. This is the Greek word given to the first book of the Tanakh when it was translated into Greek (the Septuagint) in the 3rd century BCE. In Hebrew the book is called Bereshith, meaning ―beginning,” from the first word of the Hebrew text. Some translations use birth instead of beginning because birth sounds more appealing. ―Birth‖ is considered an acceptable translation of “genesis,” since the beginning of something is its birth. Nevertheless, the proper translation of genesis in Matthew 1:18 is ―beginning.‖
With some ancient scribes this didn‘t sit well, so they tried to alter the text to say something different. they tried to alter the Greek text to read gennesis which simply means ―birth‖ and not ―beginning,‖ but they were unsuccessful.
Even when you look up the word birth on the online strong‘s it gives you the incorrect word for the word translated birth. They give you gennesis.
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1083. gennesis γέννηζις ghen'-nay-sis from 1080; nativity:–birth.
This is not what the original Greek text had or has. The unmodified Greek texts all read ―beginning‖ (genesis) in Matthew 1:18. In case you need proof, here it is.
This is from ―The Interlinear NASB-NIV Parallel New Testament In Greek & English.‖
This is from the ―Word Study Greek-English New Testament with Complete Concordance.‖ Notice this one has the literal translation as origin for the word genesis.
This is from ―The Emphatic Diaglott Containing The Original Greek Text Of The New Testament.‖
Yeshua‘s genesis is when he was conceived in the womb! Many read Rev 19:13 and 1 john 5:7-8 into John 1:1-14 but Yeshua will not go by the name ―Word of Elohim‖ until his return. And 1 John 5:7-8 has added words that were not in the original text! Revelation 19:12-14 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of Elohim. 14And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
When John 1:1-5,14 is understood in a TRUE Hebraic way, only then do these verses line up with what the Tanakh (Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament) has already established. NOWHERE in the Script does it say that YAH will become flesh or some
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spirit being named the Word. The Scriptures always speak of the coming Messiah and Servant of YAH to do His will and redeem man back to Him.
14…(and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
When did Yeshua have glory and when was he begotten from the Father? Rememeber this evangel was written almost 60 years after the resurrection of the Messiah. Yeshua received glory and was begotten of the Father after his death burial and resurrection (Luke 24:26, Rev 5:11-13, Rom 1:1-4). (see ―The Glory Of Messiah‖ and ―Born Again‖). The reason John could say he beheld his glory was because he saw Yeshua after his resurrection in his new glorified body. John could speak in the past tense because this evangel is 60 years later. Yeshua did not have any glory before his death, burial and resurrection.
15John beareth witness of him, and crieth, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that cometh after me is become before me: for he was before me.
This verse is sometimes used to prove that Yeshua preexisted. The way this verse reads you would think Yeshua existed before John but this is not possible. Yeshua was born 6 months later. Now Trinitarians will say, ―well John is talking about his preexistence.‖ The word translated “before” is from the Greek “protos (prwtoj)” Strong‘s #G4413.
1) first in time or place a) in any succession of things or persons 2) first in rank a) influence, honour b) chief c) principal 3) first, at the first
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 104 AV — first 84, chief 9, first day 2, former 2, misc 7
Of the 104 times this word was used, it was never translated “before”. The most common rendering is “first,” however, based on the context, it should be translated as Chief or something similar! Let‘s look at some other translations of this verse. The Emphatic Diaglott states:
John 1:15 John testifies concerning him, and cried, saying, ―This is he of whom I said, ‗He who comes after me is in advance of me; for he is my Superior.‘‖
John telling us that Yeshua is higher in rank than him! Here‘s another example. Rotherham‘s Emphasized Bible states:
John 1:15 John beareth witness concerning him, and hath cried aloud, saying–the same was he that said– He who after me was coming before me hath advanced; because my Chief was he.
Now let‘s look at the literal Greek text and see what it says. ―Word Study Greek-English New Testament with Complete Concordance‖ states:
John 1:15 John testifies concerning him, and has shouted, saying, This was whom I said, ‗the one after me coming in front of me has become; because first of me he was.
The ―Interlinear NASB-NIV Parallel New Testament In Greek & English‖ states:
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John 1:15 John witnesses concerning him, and has cried out, saying: this man was he whom i said: The one after me was coming before me has become; because first of me was he.
John is simply telling the people that Yeshua is greater than him. This applies to verse 30 as well. To
verify this just read verses 24 through 34. Some bible versions even go as far as to purposely mistranslate this verse. For example: John 1:15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'” (NASB)
What does Yeshua existing before John have to do with rank? For example, in the military or government ones‘ life span does not determine their rank! Trinitarians and traditionalist translators had a good ole time making these verses fit their doctrinal beliefs. instead of giving us the literal translation of these verses that lines up with the Tanakh they choose to follow tradition. Getting back on track
16For of his fulness we all received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Yeshua Messiah.
Yeshua is now our grace.
18No man hath seen God at any time…
Stop! Now this is around the year 70 CE or so, decades after Yeshua, and John just declared that no man has ever seen Elohim. Now how could this be if Yeshua is Elohim (in the flesh) – he was seen by hundreds or even thousands? Trinitarians and other such polytheistic groups will say they say saw the flesh but the god part was inside him. But these same groups say that he was 100% god and 100% man; that means every fiber of his being is both god and man. To say well his inside was god and his outside was man contradicts their own 100% god and 100% man doctrine!
Others will say when he came to earth he gave up his godhood and was just a man then later became god again. This contradicts the Tanakh in so many ways! Neither answer can be found in the scriptures without having contradictions all over the place.
…the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (American Standard Version)
Some use this verse to prove Yeshua preexisted. One problem, this verse is speaking of the present (which at the time was about 70 CE or so). Yeshua, at the time this evangel was written, had long declared the Father (somewhere between 27 CE to 36 CE) to Israel and ascended to His right side. The verse says ―who is (present tense) in the bosom of the Father‖ not ―was in the bosom of the Father!‖ By the time this letter was written and circulated the Messiah had long come and gone.
Preexistent proponents rarely ever refer to the Tanakh to prove their doctrine. Why? Because there is virtually no support to be found in the Tanakh without the twisting of Scripture. They cling to a handful of verses that they must rip completely out of context and at the same time violate the rules of grammar for the Hebrew language to make it fit their doctrine of preexistence.
In the Apostolic Writings there is no hint of a pre-existent Messiah unless you do even more twisting of verses! THE SYNOPTIC GOSPELS AND ACTS (BOOKS SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN ABOUT THE LIFE OF YESHUA) MAKE NO MENTION OF PRE-HUMAN EXISTENCE OF THE MESSIAH!
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Let‘s look Luke's introductory to his Gospel.
Luke 1:3,4 “I resolved also, because I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, to write them in logical order to you, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know fully the certainty of the things that you have been taught orally.‖
Luke‘s traces ―all things from the start with accuracy‖ yet there is no mention throughout this gospel of Yeshua having existed in another form prior to his birth. If such an idea were true, then from his own words, Luke would not have left out this vital information for Theophilus to 'know fully'. Luke firmly puts the coming into existence of Yeshua as being at the time of his conception in Mary‘s womb. This is not a coming into only human existence that is spoken of in Luke, but of actual existence.
The gospel of Matthew similarly gives no hint of a pre-human existence for Yeshua. It too explains Yeshua‘ conception as his time of coming into existence. Even using the word ―genesis‖ to described his conception as his beginning.
The Gospel of Mark does not deal with the events surrounding Yeshua‘ birth but makes its start with the events concerning the baptism of Yeshua. However, a thorough examination of this entire gospel reveals no hint of a pre-human existence for Yeshua.
The same applies to the book of Acts. They give sermons all throughout this recorded history book touching on everything concerning the Way yet no mention of Yeshua‘s preexistence is found! Let‘s look at what some scholars have to say on this matter.
Matthew and Luke “show no knowledge of Yeshua' pre-existence; seemingly for them the conception was the becoming (begetting) of God's Son” – Raymond Brown, America's leading Catholic theologian.
“The idea of pre-existence lies completely outside the Synoptic sphere of view” – F.C. Baur, Most distinguished Greek scholar.
“there is not a single reference in the Synoptic Gospels to Yeshua having been the Son of God before his birth.” – Professor William Sanday of Oxford.
It is only in the book of John where Trinitarian, Ditheist, and those who profess Yeshua had a preexistence try to draw proof. It is a serious imposition on the evangel of John to understand him to teach of a different Messiah than Matthew, Mark and Luke — one who is really an angel or Elohim, a spirit being or YHWH Himself appearing as a man. Such a non-human Messiah is foreign not only to the rest of the Apostolic writings (NT), but to the whole revelation of Elohim in the Tanakh (OT) in regard to his description of the coming Messiah. Deuteronomy 18 expressly says the Messiah is to arise from a family in Israel. All Israelites who looked forward to the Messiah expected a human person, not an angel, much less Elohim Himself! Though the Israelites had not understood that the Messiah was to be born supernaturally, even this miraculous begetting was in fact predicted. A “pre-human” Messiah, however, is nowhere suggested.
But even the Evangel of John has no proof of a preexistent Messiah when properly studied from a Hebraic mindset. As shown before, John wrote his gospel to prove Yeshua is the Messiah and Son of Elohim!!! Here‘s John 1:1-18 from the first English Bible translated directly from the languages of the Scriptures.
John 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4In it was lyfe and
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the lyfe was ye lyght of men 5and the lyght shyneth in the darcknes but the darcknes comprehended it not.
6There was a man sent from God whose name was Iohn. 7The same cam as a witnes to beare witnes of the lyght that all men through him myght beleve. 8He was not that lyght: but to beare witnes of the lyght. 9That was a true lyght which lyghteth all men that come into the worlde. 10He was in ye worlde and the worlde was made by him: and yet the worlde knewe him not. 11He cam amonge his (awne) and his awne receaved him not. 12But as meny as receaved him to them he gave power to be the sonnes of God in yt they beleved on his name: 13which were borne not of bloude nor of the will of the flesshe nor yet of the will of man: but of God.
14And the worde was made flesshe and dwelt amonge vs and we sawe the glory of it as the glory of the only begotten sonne of ye father which worde was full of grace and verite. 15Iohn bare witnes of him and cryed sayinge: This was he of whome I spake he that cometh after me was before me because he was yer then I. 16And of his fulnes have all we receaved even (grace) for grace. 17For the lawe was geven by Moses but grace and truthe came by Iesus Christ. 18No ma hath sene God at eny tyme. The only begotte sonne which is in ye bosome of ye father he hath declared him.
Peace & Blessings
Amar
Updated 11/13/10

[Frank4YAHWEH]

To ALL,

You people need to stop going around in this deceptive circle of simply being short with each other with personal attacks on each other and get down to some serious studying:

Understanding John 1:1 Part I
http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf

Understanding John 1:1 Part II
http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf

[NickHassan]

Hi FRank,
John focusses on the more important ANOINTING

[charity]

John is Translated from Greek (ROMAN) text?

[NickHassan]

Hi FRank,
The Word was of the Spirit and only became flesh in Jesus at the Jordan making him Jesus Christ, the Word.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07)

Hi FRank, John focusses on the more important ANOINTING

Nick,

Get down to some serious studying and stop with the endless drool:

Understanding John 1:1 Part I
http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf

Understanding John 1:1 Part II
http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:12)

Hi FRank, The Word was of the Spirit and only became flesh in Jesus at the Jordan making him Jesus Christ, the Word.

Nick,

Father Yahweh's word was revealed in the flesh long before Yahshua came on the scene. Remember that Yahshua is the prophet like unto Moshe.

[charity]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07)

Hi FRank, John focusses on the more important ANOINTING

Yes His own Anointing! Making everyone eat the crumbs left on the floor. Having Jesus appear with no tongue cleaving to the roof of his mouth… casting his kingdom off hence forth into eternity because the Jews did not fight for him…I suspect Jesus would never blame the Jews behaving like a three year old. makes him to much Like us! dis-appointed

jOHN IS FROM Mose's House! his foundations are based in sacrifice an offering, he lived on in peace an safety with the Romans while the others were hunted an killed.

Im sure there happened to be many that thought it more of AN chastening EXECUTION than a sacrifice…! Which indeed was evident that the action was  written an justified latter as a theology instead of in the Nature of Ignorance…an greed to keep the land from being taken back from the Romans by the original Nations

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (charity @ April 12 2012,10:33)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07) Hi FRank, John focusses on the more important ANOINTING Yes His own Anointing! Making everyone eat the crumbs left on the floor on the floor. Having Jesus appear with no tongue cleaving to the roof of his mouth… casting his kingdom off hence forth into eternity because the Jews did not fight for him…I suspect Jesus would never blame the Jews behaving like a three year old. jOHN IS FROM Mose's House! his foundations are based in sacrifice an offering, he lived on in peace an safety with the Roman while the others were hunted an killed.. Im sure there happened to be many that thought it more of AN chastening EXECUTION than a sacrifice…! Which indeed was evident that the action was  written an justified latter as a theology.

charity,

And you still rant on in silly banter?

[charity]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,10:39)

Quote (charity @ April 12 2012,10:33) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07) Hi FRank, John focusses on the more important ANOINTING Yes His own Anointing! Making everyone eat the crumbs left on the floor on the floor. Having Jesus appear with no tongue cleaving to the roof of his mouth… casting his kingdom off hence forth into eternity because the Jews did not fight for him…I suspect Jesus would never blame the Jews behaving like a three year old. jOHN IS FROM Mose's House! his foundations are based in sacrifice an offering, he lived on in peace an safety with the Roman while the others were hunted an killed.. Im sure there happened to be many that thought it more of AN chastening EXECUTION than a sacrifice…! Which indeed was evident that the action was  written an justified latter as a theology. charity, And you still rant on in silly banter?

Yep.. an loving the gift of Life to!!   am I getting in your Way?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,10:17)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07) Hi FRank, John focusses on the more important ANOINTING Nick, Get down to some serious studying and stop with the endless drool: Understanding John 1:1 Part I http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf Understanding John 1:1 Part II http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf

Hi Frank,
You seem to want to be seen as an expert but why?

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:46)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,10:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07) Hi FRank, John focusses on the more important ANOINTING Nick, Get down to some serious studying and stop with the endless drool: Understanding John 1:1 Part I http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf Understanding John 1:1 Part II http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf Hi Frank, You seem to want to be seen as an expert but why?

Nick,

And you still rant on in silly banter?

[charity]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:46)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,10:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07) Hi FRank, John focusses on the more important ANOINTING Nick, Get down to some serious studying and stop with the endless drool: Understanding John 1:1 Part I http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf Understanding John 1:1 Part II http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf Hi Frank, You seem to want to be seen as an expert but why?

smile Jesus died because everyone thought themselves the expert…honourable without rude interruptions.

[charity]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,11:01)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:46) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,10:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07) Hi FRank, John focusses on the more important ANOINTING Nick, Get down to some serious studying and stop with the endless drool: Understanding John 1:1 Part I http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf Understanding John 1:1 Part II http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf Hi Frank, You seem to want to be seen as an expert but why? Nick, And you still rant on in silly banter?

Where are you from?

Were the rule is …when losing always START correctING THEIR GRAMMA!

Bit Like what happen to the bible…

[jammin]

frank,

where is your version that says that the word in john 1.1 is the father? lOL

nick,

where can i read in john 1.1 that the word is the HS? LOL

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (jammin @ April 12 2012,11:11)

frank, where is your version that says that the word in john 1.1 is the father? lOL nick, where can i read in john 1.1 that the word is the HS? LOL

jammin,

I am never proclaimed that Scripture says that the word in Yahchanan [John] 1:1 is the Father. What I have simply proclaimed is what Father Yahweh's prophetic inspired word teaches, and that is that His word is simply that, His word. Nowhere in Scripture does it ever teach or say that Father Yahweh's word was a separate being that existed apart from Him in the beginning that was a creator or a co-creator with Him. Scripture clearly teaches that Father Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM” created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. His son Yahshua is never once recorded in the so-called “New Testament” as proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING. In fact, in this same section of Scripture Yahshua credited his and our Father Yahweh for the creation of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM.

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (charity @ April 12 2012,11:06)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,11:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:46) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,10:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2012,10:07) Hi FRank, John focusses on the more important ANOINTING Nick, Get down to some serious studying and stop with the endless drool: Understanding John 1:1 Part I http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….rtI.pdf Understanding John 1:1 Part II http://www.amarthenazarene.com/uploads….tII.pdf Hi Frank, You seem to want to be seen as an expert but why? Nick, And you still rant on in silly banter? Where are you from? Were the rule is …when losing always START correctING THEIR GRAMMA! Bit Like what happen to the bible…

charity,

To whose “GRAMMA” are you referring? My gramma and granpa are dead and gone!

[NickHassan]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 12 2012,12:08)

Quote (jammin @ April 12 2012,11:11) frank, where is your version that says that the word in john 1.1 is the father? lOL nick, where can i read in john 1.1 that the word is the HS? LOL jammin, I am never proclaimed that Scripture says that the word in Yahchanan [John] 1:1 is the Father. What I have simply proclaimed is what Father Yahweh's prophetic inspired word teaches, and that is that His word is simply that, His word. Nowhere in Scripture does it ever teach or say that Father Yahweh's word was a separate being that existed apart from Him in the beginning that was a creator or a co-creator with Him. Scripture clearly teaches that Father Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM” created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. His son Yahshua is never once recorded in the so-called “New Testament” as proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING. In fact, in this same section of Scripture Yahshua credited his and our Father Yahweh for the creation of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

Yes FRank,
It is the Spirit of God that creates.[ps 104]

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