JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
Exactly,
Where two or three are gathered together in his name he is amongst them.
The Spirit of Christ has never abandoned the brothers while they suffer for him and he guides them towards eternal life

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 19 2010,13:42)

Hi ED, Exactly, Where two or three are gathered together in his name he is amongst them. The Spirit of Christ has never abandoned the brothers while they suffer for him and he guides them towards eternal life

Hi Nick,

I think it's a matter of the wording you use,
that sometimes is confusing to others here.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[RokkaMan]

What needs to be understood…is that

The Word of God is about God himself.

——

When it's said that there is no God before YHVH, it's speaking of every other deity that mankind creates and calls God.

Whether it be Satan, Money, Behophet, Baal, Gold Cows, Water, Earth, The Sun, The Moon… whatever…

None of those things are truly God…nor ever will be.

They all come from God, and are part of creation.

The Word of God, however…
is God revealing himself to creation.

It's clear to understand that what is revealed is the same as the revealer.

The only difference is….

what is revealed does not encompass the infinite totality of The Revealer.

It is limited to what creation can perceive.

If there was a being that could perceive God's totality, that being would be equal to God.

but there is no such being except God himself.

Not even The Word of God can be equal to the totality of God, because The Word of God is limited to what can be perceived.

————

If at any point something other than God, could perceive the totality of YHVH, only then will The Word of God be equal with God.

So yes, The Word of God…is God himself for it has potential to encompass the totality…but it never can and never will therefore, forever being The Son of God.

[942767]

Hi RM:

You say:

Quote

The Word of God, however… is God revealing himself to creation. It's clear to understand that what is revealed is the same as the revealer. The only difference is…. what is revealed does not encompass the infinite totality of The Revealer.

I agree. You have summed it up very nicely.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[shimmer]

RokkaMan, I also now believe the word of God is God himself. I think as you said it.

[Lightenup]

RokkaMan
If you say the word is God
and also the word is of/from God,
then God is of/from God.
And if the word is with God,
then the God of/from God is with God.
Of course, the God of/from God is not the God which it/He is from.

[Ed J]

Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 14 2010,09:21)

What needs to be understood…is that The Word of God is about God himself. —— When it's said that there is no God before YHVH, it's speaking of every other deity that mankind creates and calls God. Whether it be Satan, Money, Behophet, Baal, Gold Cows, Water, Earth, The Sun, The Moon… whatever… None of those things are truly God…nor ever will be. They all come from God, and are part of creation. The Word of God, however… is God revealing himself to creation. It's clear to understand that what is revealed is the same as the revealer. The only difference is…. what is revealed does not encompass the infinite totality of The Revealer. It is limited to what creation can perceive. If there was a being that could perceive God's totality, that being would be equal to God. but there is no such being except God himself. Not even The Word of God can be equal to the totality of God, because The Word of God is limited to what can be perceived. ———— If at any point something other than God, could perceive the totality of YHVH, only then will The Word of God be equal with God. So yes, The Word of God…is God himself for it has potential to encompass the totality…but it never can and never will therefore, forever being The Son of God.

Hi ,

Excellent Post!

One point I call into question is the emboldened part in 'your' Post…
Philippians 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 14 2010,09:40)

RokkaMan, I also [ [ [ now ] ] ] believe the word of God is God himself. I think as you said it.

Hi Shimmer,

YHVH is “indeed” working a Good work in you; Shimmer!
The lights are beginning to come on in “True” Believers! (Eph.5:13)
Eph.5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest
by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and One Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Click Here) <– To see The HolySpirit is "God The Father" as well!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[davidbfun]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 14 2010,17:40)

RokkaMan, I also now believe the word of God is God himself. I think as you said it.

Hi Shimmer,

I think he said, “The Word of God is about God himself.”

Although the Thread's heading is the word of God is God himself….which can be a bit confusing.

Then I think that Kathi (LU) pointed out that Word FROM God cannot be God whom he is from.

Since most think that the WORD in John 1:1 is Jesus then this post is saying that Jesus, the son OF God is God, the Father which isn't true.  son = father   Word = God

And Kathi was quick to point out the Word was WITH God and therefore cannot be God whom he is WITH.

From you guys here is why I think that it is quite possible that “WORD” was the name of Yahshua before he became Jesus. God said (spoke) “Let there be..” and the Word did it.

God sent out messages and WORD took them.  He was the Word of God and spoke in the first person tense as if God Himself was talking. So, if God is sending or giving His Word, His Word cannot be Him.

The Professor

[Proclaimer]

If John 1:1c said, “The Word was THE God”, it would mean that indeed the Word was the God and that would exclude all others. Later we are shown who the Word is and it is Jesus Christ, and now you have just supported the Trinitarians by saying that Jesus is God. Worse than that, it means that Jesus is God to the exclusion of God the Father.

Thankfully, John 1:1c doesn't say, “THE Word was THE God”. No it lacks the definite article before God in that part of the verse.

Now look how John 1:1 is suppose to be viewed.

Besides being WITH God, it says this:
2 He was with God in the beginning.
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,d who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.
18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

See it is Jesus. Jesus is the Word of God. He is the Word of Life.
If you need further proof, read 1John1:1

1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

And finally we see that a glorified Jesus (who BTW is now in the glory that he had with the Father before the world begun) wears a saying “the Word of God”.

Revelation 19:13
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

Jesus is the Word of God even if you deny that he is the Word of God.

[davidbfun]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 14 2010,22:23)

If John 1:1c said, “The Word was THE God”, it would mean that indeed the Word was the God and that would exclude all others. Later we are shown who the Word is and it is Jesus Christ, and now you have just supported the Trinitarians by saying that Jesus is God. Worse than that, it means that Jesus is God to the exclusion of God the Father. Thankfully, John 1:1c doesn't say, “THE Word was THE God”. No it lacks the definite article before God in that part of the verse. Now look how John 1:1 is suppose to be viewed. Besides being WITH God, it says this: 2 He was with God in the beginning. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,d who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me. 18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known. See it is Jesus. Jesus is the Word of God. He is the Word of Life. If you need further proof, read 1John1:1 1 John 1 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. And finally we see that a glorified Jesus (who BTW is now in the glory that he had with the Father before the world begun) wears a saying “the Word of God”. Revelation 19:13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God even if you deny that he is the Word of God.

Hi t8,

Great points.

Also as Ed pointed out, the Greek doesn't have the word “of” so, when the translators translated they forgot to put in the word “of” in front of the last word “God”, and for us that makes a world of difference in making Jesus “God” or “of God”…and of course Scripture makes Jesus the son OF God, never God (the Son).

The Professor

[Ed J]

Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 14 2010,13:46)

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 14 2010,17:40) RokkaMan, I also now believe the word of God is God himself. I think as you said it. Hi Shimmer, I think he said, “The Word of God is about God himself.” Although the Thread's heading is the word of God is God himself….which can be a bit confusing. Then I think that Kathi (LU) pointed out that Word FROM God cannot be God whom he is from. Since most think that the WORD in John 1:1 is Jesus then this post is saying that Jesus, the son OF God is God, the Father which isn't true.  son = father   Word = God And Kathi was quick to point out the Word was WITH God and therefore cannot be God whom he is WITH. From you guys here is why I think that it is quite possible that “WORD” was the name of Yahshua before he became Jesus. God said (spoke) “Let there be..” and the Word did it. God sent out messages and WORD took them.  He was the Word of God and spoke in the first person tense as if God Himself was talking. So, if God is sending or giving His Word, His Word cannot be Him. The Professor

Hi David,

The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

Babylon means: Confusion.
Rev.18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying,
Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers
of her(Babylon's) sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Zerubbabel means: Coming out of Confusion(removing).
Zech.4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying,
This is “THE WORD” of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying,
Not by might, nor by power, but by “MY SPIRIT”, saith the LORD of Hosts.

ONLY by the “HolySpirit“, ONLY by the “HolySpirit“ my friend! 

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[shimmer]

Ed, you do know that if you dropped all the other thing's, which you know I disagree on, I would pay more attention to you, But thanks, I might take a look,

[shimmer]

David, you said

Quote

God sent out messages and WORD took them. He was the Word of God and spoke in the first person tense as if God Himself was talking. So, if God is sending or giving His Word, His Word cannot be Him.

The word was God, or was from God. I feel this means the word is God's spoken word. Somehow. I can't understand why it refers to the word as he if it is God's words, Im still trying to put it all together with Scripture ?

[shimmer]

Ah, I get your post now Rokkaman, wow, before I was being distracted and reading, now [the second read] I get it. Thank you for your post.

I think that's answered something for me which I was trying to figure out today in scripture !

[RokkaMan]

God bless you shimmer, I hope the works I do definately glorify God indeed.

—–

t8, I don't know who you're addressing in your post, and davidbfun I don't know where you are coming from either.

It seems Kathi and the rest understand clearly what is being said.

—–

The Word of God, is YHVH revealing himself.

So everything we can perceive of The Word of God…is ABOUT YHVH himself.

This means, everything that is The Word of God…

is revealing everything that is YHVH himself.

but The Word of God is not literally YHVH himself.

it is the image of YHVH, it is YHVH reflected, it is YHVH revealed.

——–

So John 1 can be read.

In the beginning was The Word
In the beginning was the revealing of YHVH

The word was with god
The revelation of YHVH was with YHVH

The Word was God
The revelation of YHVH was about YHVH.

——–

You see, The Word of God is YHVH realizing and being aware of himself.

It is his thought and understanding of who he is.

This thought and understand comes from his mind.

——–

The same way when you try and describe yourself to someone else…

your description comes from you, and is about you…therefore it is you.

but your description isn't literally you

it is your reflected image and explaination of yourself and who you are.
——-

So it is you, yet it isn't you.

——-

That is The Word of God.

It is God Revealed.

Not God himself,

yet it is everything that is God.

——-

Jesus Christ is the reflection and reflected person of YHVH himself.

and since YHVH is unknowable…THe Word of God is the highest anything created can possibly perceive to be God.

because The Word of God…is The Knowable YHVH.
YHVH himself is unknowable.

but you can come to know the unknowable, through what is revealed…which is the knowable Word of God.

——–

hope this clears things up.

[RokkaMan]

I also wanted to point out to Ed J.

Quote

Hi , Excellent Post! One point I call into question is the emboldened part in 'your' Post… Philippians 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

here the word equal in the original hebrew/greek text…
is isos

isos means 1) equal, in quantity or quality

——

The Word of God is just as much God as God himself.

because he came from God.

If youn draw a cup of ocean water from the ocean…the cup of ocean water is just as much ocean as the ocean itself…

yet it doesn't encompass the totality of the ocean.

——-

but the definition says quanitity as well.

and I still agree, because YHVH is infinite… no doubt about that.

he continues to create and will never stop creating new things.

The Word of God is YHVH revealed… what is revealed is limited to creation's perception.

This means, that the infinite YHVH still has inifinite properties…and will continue to always demonstrate “new” things.

——

The Word of God can only reveal, what is demonstrated and what we can perceive.

So The Word of God is also infinite, because he has the potential to reveal everything that is God.

but since everything of God cannot be revealed, because he is infinite and will continually infinitely demonstrate himself…

The Word of God too will infinitely be revealing the things of God.

With that said……

you can see that The Word of God indeed is equal with YHVH quantity wise and quality wise…

but here's a big point to the picture.

——-
we see The Word of God cannot do anything YHVH doesn't do

This means The Word of God is subject to YHVH himself.

So even though he is equal in quantity and quality…

he is not equal in authority.

[shimmer]

That is amazing, thank you RokkaMan,

[davidbfun]

Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 15 2010,11:03)

I also wanted to point out to Ed J. Quote Hi , Excellent Post! One point I call into question is the emboldened part in 'your' Post… Philippians 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org here the word equal in the original hebrew/greek text… is isos isos means 1) equal, in quantity or quality —— The Word of God is just as much God as God himself. because he came from God. If youn draw a cup of ocean water from the ocean…the cup of ocean water is just as much ocean as the ocean itself… yet it doesn't encompass the totality of the ocean. ——- but the definition says quanitity as well. and I still agree, because YHVH is infinite… no doubt about that. he continues to create and will never stop creating new things. The Word of God is YHVH revealed… what is revealed is limited to creation's perception. This means, that the infinite YHVH still has inifinite properties…and will continue to always demonstrate “new” things. —— The Word of God can only reveal, what is demonstrated and what we can perceive. So The Word of God is also infinite, because he has the potential to reveal everything that is God. but since everything of God cannot be revealed, because he is infinite and will continually infinitely demonstrate himself… The Word of God too will infinitely be revealing the things of God. With that said…… you can see that The Word of God indeed is equal with YHVH quantity wise and quality wise… but here's a big point to the picture. ——- we see The Word of God cannot do anything YHVH doesn't do This means The Word of God is subject to YHVH himself. So even though he is equal in quantity and quality… he is not equal in authority.

Hi Rm,

If the Word of God is Jesus, which you don't want to assert, he isn't infinite as you state. Jesus was finite and the son of God as well as metaphorically, “the word of God”.

The “Word” and “word of God” can refer to two different things. One is a separate individual and the other is God's speech which is more of a metaphor than talking about God's physical words leaving His mouth.

The Professor

[Ed J]

Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 15 2010,03:03)

I also wanted to point out to Ed J. The Word of God is just as much God as God himself.

Hi RokkaMan,

            “HolySpirit“ = “Father: The Word“  … (Click Here)

John 14:24  He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and
“The Word” which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
he gave me a commandment, what I(Jesus) should say, and what I should speak.

“The Word” is (אלהים) “GOD” (John 1:1)! Jesus is “A Word”!
“The Word” (Hō Lōgôs) [ο λογος]=443 is the 86th prime
meaning [אלהים=86] “GOD” ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63 (YHVH=63)!

 The “HolySpirit” is “The Word”(of God)!
              Hebrew↔Greek
            (86)אלהים=ο λογος(86th Prime)
(ĔL-ō-Hêêm)God=The Word(Hō Lōgôs)

(Lōgôs) [λογος]=373 means “Word”, and 373 is the 74th Prime Number!
(Hō Lōgôs) [ο λογος]=443 means “The Word” and 443 is the 86th Prime Number. (John 1:1)
“God Word”=86 and אלהים=86 ĔL-ō-Hêêm both equal 86 and ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63 means “YHVH”=63.

In English, the significant number (74) is attributed to JOSHUA=74, Messiah=74;
also in the following: JESUS=74, Cross=74, Gospel=74, עד=74, and even English=74.
Jesus Christ (74×32) also factors 74 in Greek Theomatically:
[Jesus] Ιησους=74(x12), [Christ] Χριστоς=74(x20).
[Son of Man] υιος τον ανθρωπου=74(x40).

This symbol ( > ) means GREATER THAN in mathematics
The pieces fit together perfectly: “The Word” (86) > “Word” (74).
In English it's comparable to (The LORD JEHOVAH) > (Lord Jesus=74) is the “God Son”=74!
                                                          “The Owner” > “Owner “
                                                                JEHOVAH > Jesus
                                                                          86 > 74

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Author]

Posts