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Quote (RokkaMan @ June 19 2010,17:16) God Bless you Is 1:18 We all have the same purpose in life, and that is to help eachother find our way back to God.
All glory goes to God.
Today has been a deep day for me, I was so ready to leave these boards alone but God put it in my spirit to continue.
He then revealed scripture to me to reassure me that Jesus indeed was HE in flesh.
OT and NT point to Jesus as being God.
His flesh was not God, but who HE WAS as a person was God experiencing human life.
That is why scripture says he was fully man yet fully god.
One thing God also wants me to reveal is the folly of trinitarianism.
It is wrong and invalid.
Yes there are three that bear witness now.
But God has manifested himself as different personas besides Jesus and The Holy Spirit….temporary ones.
If God wanted to manifest as 20 different people, he could…and it would destroy trinitarianism.
An example…
It would seem that God manifested as melkizedek in the OT…The High Priest in whom Abraham paid tithes to.
If you want to hear my position, PM me.
The important thing is understand this is NOT polytheism.
There is ONLY one God and one God alone.
Supreme Being of all things, manifesting himself into creation in various ways to bring us ALLLLLLL to him.
It's kind of like when Jesus appeared after his ressurection, before his ascension and appeared as a different person.
He didn't have the SAME body, but he was Jesus.
Same spirit manifesting in two different bodies…does that mean Jesus is a binarity? or God is a Quadinity?
No, God can manifest himself to us as many times as he wants in anyway, it's all about us and what we do.
He responds to us, this is how an unchanging God, changes…
By responding to us who do change.He loves us, but when we sin, he hates us.
He blesses us, but when we sin he punishes us.An unchangeing God, changing based on OUR stance towards him.
Jesus would have never manifested on earth, if we never fell from grace.
But God knowing we would fall, always was ready to take on the role of Jesus.
He had us in mind before we were even manifested into creation.
HE LOVES US
Hi Rokka,
Always happy to discuss the merits of trinitarianism vs. sabellianism with you. There are some good reasons I favour one over the other, which I'm happy to convey to you. Open a thread if you like and I'll meet you there.
Lol I had to read up on sabellianism
I didn't even know there was a classification.The best person to discuss it with is Simply Forgiven. He's wise in this field and has helped me break out of trinitarianism.
I guess sabellianism is anti-trinitarian as well, but I have a stigma with anti-trinitarians not believing Jesus is God.
He has to be or else this whole gospel is meaningless?
And we're all Idolaters.
I'll start a thread early in the morning, that way I can make sure SF has a healthy chance to place his input before Nick Hassan poisons the thread with a bunch of meaningless one-liners. lol
No worries. Something for you to sleep on – if Yeshua and the Father are different manifestations of the same person, why does Yeshua pray to His Father?
Hi RM:
My position is that there is One God who is above all including Jesus.
Whether or not you agree, that is what the Word of God teaches.
Quote Ephesians 4:6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Quote 1 Co. 8:6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (RokkaMan @ June 19 2010,06:34) Amg i don't want to read a book of verse, I am simply asking “you” (as in individuals) you're position and a verse or two of scripture to support your belief. Please just a simple yes or no.
Hi RokkaMan,The Word is the “HolySpirit”; Jesus' Father. (Heb.7:28)
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings:
and “The word” which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs)Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2010,14:38) Hi,
Scripture is the mouth of God by God's Spirit.
Scripture is the MOUTH OF GOD Nick??? I thought it was the BOOK of God. The Bible must not be confused with the Word of God Who became FLESH, not a book!!Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2010,18:54) Hi RM,
Fruit?Man cannot live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
All scripture is inspired.
2 peter 1
Scripture is inspired, yes and amen, but it is words we read.The words that proceed from the mouth of God are the words He speaks to us day by day as part of our LIVING relationship with Him.
Quote (942767 @ June 19 2010,20:34) Hi Oxy: Is the bible the Word of God?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty, I know that everyone calls the Bible the Word of God, but God Himself taught me differently. There are a few things that need to be considered.
1. There is not one Scripture in all the Bible that specifically calls the Bible the Word.
2. The Word of God was in the beginning with God and was God.
3. The Word of God was made flesh
4. THE Word of God indicates only one, the word THE being singular.
5. Jesus NEVER referred to Scrpture as the Word. He called them Scrptures, the words of God or “It is written”
6. If faith comes by hearing the Word and the Word is Scripture, why doesn't it say reading? What it actually means is that faith comes by HEARING.. in other words faith comes when the Word (Jesus) speaks to you.My personal experience is that since God gave me this understanding it has greatly enhanced the meaning of Scripture to me and also revolutionised my relationship with Jesus.
So in otherwords brother Oxy, The bible is certainly NOT The Word of God.
It is THE INSPIRED WORDS OF GOD…The Law, Prohpechy, and work of God that REVEALS The Word of God that is Christ Jesus.
EVERYTHING in the bible was leading to Jesus.
The Word of God in fact is God himself, and the bible are his inspired words written by man to reveal himself unto mankind.
Quote (RokkaMan @ June 19 2010,17:28) Quote (942767 @ June 19 2010,17:03) Hi RM: When you speak, it your word coming from you. If someone, obeys what you say, does that make that person you or do does he through obedience to your commandments reflect your character?
God spoke in the OT to many such as Adam, to Noah, to Enoch, to the Pharaoh through Moses, to Moses, to Israel through Moses, through the prophets to Israel, to Nebuchadnezzar, and lastly he has spoken to humanity through His Only Begotten Son. Does the fact that God has spoken (the Word of God) through these people make them God?
There is only “One God”, however, Jesus reflects God's perfectly reflects God's character as He relates to humanity. God not only spoke to humanity through Jesus (it was God speaking (the Word of God)), but Jesus is the only one who obeyed what God was speaking to humanity through him without sin, and so it is written that “he is the express image of his person”. He is God in this sense, and so he said: “He who has seen me has seen the Father”. We have seen the Father through the life that Jesus lived in obedience to the Word of God, and so the scripture also calls Jesus “the Word of God”.
Now the body of Jesus is God's own “flesh and blood”, but they are not the same person. They are two distinct individuals.
Jesus was sent by God, and God has said to us through the Apostle Peter that Jesus is “The Christ, the Son of the Living God”.
There is “One God, and one mediator between God and man, the man, Christ Jesus”. (1 Ti 2:5)
Love in Christ,
Marty
Good post and perspective. I agree with your content but not your position. You see your content can support either position, yours or mine…it's a matter of how you apply.You see God indeed spoke through many men.
But which of them has he said, Today I have begotten you?
Jesus.
Which of them had a virgin birth?
Jesus
Which of them was no sin found
Jesus
Which of them is HEIR to everything that is YHVH
Jesus
Which of them has the power to save souls?
Jesus
Which of them are you allowed to pray to and worship
Jesus
Which of them existed before the world was
Jesus
Which of them was credited with the creation of everything
Jesus
Jesus, Jesus, Jesus and Jesus only.
He is…The Alpha and Omega…The beginning and the end.
The Word of God, The Word that was with God, and The Word that IS GOD.
I agree with your content but not your position.
Hello 94, I answered your positionI too believe God is One and only One.
There is none like him.
But if that ONE God chose to manifest himself into creation
that manifestation would be God.
It doesn't add another number to God or make the manifestation a different ENTITY as God…he's still The one and only God.
That is what you need to understand…
————
I am not trinitarian, I am not saying Jesus is another God or different God.
I am saying Jesus is the SAME God manifested as The Son and brought into this world as flesh to die for our sins.
God was saying he loves us so much he would die for us through Jesus Christ.
The same way God would appear to OT prophets as THE ANGEL OF THE LORD…the prophets would bow down and worship the angels.
It was permissible because God chose to manifest himself AS AN ANGEL.
The physical body was an angel, but the persona THROUGH the angel or spirit IN THE ANGEL was God himself.
In the same light, THE PHYSICAL BODY OF JESUS was a fleshy man.
But the SPIRIT IN HIM, was GOD HIMSELF.
When you talk to me, you don't say I am not RokkaMan because I have a body…you're talking to me, my soul/spirit.
In the same light is Jesus God…his physical body wasn't God, who he was as a person was God.
I have another stinger that will further explicitely prove Jesus is God, but i'll address it in another post.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 19 2010,17:56) No worries. Something for you to sleep on – if Yeshua and the Father are different manifestations of the same person, why does Yeshua pray to His Father?
Because as a man, he was given independant will.Remember, Jesus as God had to be like the Dogs he was sent to save.
So he was humbled to be JUST LIKE US as a man.
This means he had his own independant will, yet he didn't (paradoxical).
That is why he was tempted as a man, suffered as a man, lived as a man, and died as a man.
So that no one can unfairly charge God with making us human and blaming HIM for our sins and giving us independant will.
So he said, I'll do it myself and become man and undergo everything they undergo.
So while YHVH The Father held his authority and position in heaven, his manifestation as The Son, took on the role of a man and was subject to sin in which he did not conform.
Being obedient unto his Godship.
————–
Jesus was fully God, yet fully man.
The flesh is weak and needs the spirit to direct it.If Jesus as man had (subject to sin) The spirit of The Father…his fleshy manly body would continously need to seek strength from his perfect spirit that was he.
It's the only way man can abstain from sin…is to seek and fellowship with God.
So Jesus' humbled human manifestation had to be in continous fellowship with his spirit as The Father.
That is why him being the same being as The Father had to still pray to the spirit to give him strength as a man.
WOW, RM!!
What you are saying is incredibly Deep!
Your intellect, very Steep…
Ha ha! Such rubbish, massive heap
Out of your senses you leap
In line with Scriptures I advise you to keep.You sticking your neck out, just like a Goose
Truth or Lie, and which do you choose?
Call the asylum, madman on the loose!
Take him away quick, Vamoose…!
Before he infect me's and you'sQuote (JustAskin @ June 20 2010,03:50) WOW, RM!! What you are saying is incredibly Deep!
Your intellect, very Steep…
Ha ha! Such rubbish, massive heap
Out of your senses you leap
In line with Scriptures I advise you to keep.You sticking your neck out, just like a Goose
Truth or Lie, and which do you choose?
Call the asylum, madman on the loose!
Take him away quick, Vamoose…!
Before he infect me's and you's
Nice Poem. but you're not saying anything.Plenty of evidence points to Jesus being God.
Plenty of evidence points to him NOT being God.I am not trinitarian but I believe it's foolish that one group points to the evidence he is God, and the other points to the fact he is just a man.
When scripture tells us he's both? lol
So instead of choosing sides, why not accept both and understand he's God manifested in flesh.
It seems contradictory to be God and not man and man not God… When it's actually paradoxical.
In the same breathe, you cannot limit God as a trinity when he's manifested himself more than 3 times.
God is one, all in all. His manifestation however is many.
We can identify who is a true manifestation of God when they point us to focus on YHVH The Father instead of pointing us to focus on the manifestation.Jesus didn't say focus on me, he said…believe me and focus on YHVH.
After he ascended, he went back to his original glory as God, but the focus is still on YHVH.
I always pray to The Father, never to Jesus.
I come to The Father through Jesus.
but I know very well who Jesus is.
And that is The Son of God.it's like drawing a cup of water from the ocean.
The cup of water has Ocean water in it, but it's not the ocean itself.In the same way is Jesus God but not YHVH himself.
RM,
What you are saying boils down to this:
God created a manifestation of Himself and then made that manifestation the inheritor of His kingdom.
He gives Himself his kingdom as His own inheritance.
What was the point? I don't get it.
And you say that God revealed this to you, directly?
A Spirit revealed it to you… Test the Spirit!
Quote (JustAskin @ June 20 2010,04:05) RM, What you are saying boils down to this:
God created a manifestation of Himself and then made that manifestation the inheritor of His kingdom.
He gives Himself his kingdom as His own inheritance.
What was the point? I don't get it.
And you say that God revealed this to you, directly?
A Spirit revealed it to you… Test the Spirit!
Looks like we posted at the same time.Read my above post…it'll explain your question so you can hopefully get it.
I'll however further elaborate.
———-The whole point of doing it was for us.
Because we sinned.
God cannot be a comforter if there is no pain.
He can't be a healer if we're not sick (curtesy of SF)
He cannot be a guide if we're not lost.
So he cannot be a saviour if we were not in trouble.
————-
So the point of manifesting himself as Jesus was to save us from our sins.
Then he will give the kingdom to Jesus.
and when everything is complete, Jesus will then subject himself under the father so that God may be all in all.
How else do you not understand?
Ask it and I'll answer.
Plus the spirit is being tested right now, on these boards.
So far not one of you can charge against it?
plus as the spirit revealed, scripture was revealed, that was all the test I needed.
If God revealed this to you then He would also have revealed who are His true servants in this forum.
The Scriptures does not say, 'who ever believes that God has come in the flesh'. Why not?
Further more, how can God die? Even a manifestation, how can a manifestation die?
Always Just Ask: As what did Jesus die, God or Man?
RM, Can you answer from your revelation from God Himself?
Even WJ and the stale-wart KJ, could not answer for fear of revealing the ignorance of the Trinity!!!
Quote (JustAskin @ June 20 2010,04:20) If God revealed this to you then He would also have revealed who are His true servants in this forum. The Scriptures does not say, 'who ever believes that God has come in the flesh'. Why not?
Further more, how can God die? Even a manifestation, how can a manifestation die?
Always Just Ask: As what did Jesus die, God or Man?
RM, Can you answer from your revelation from God Himself?
Even WJ and the stale-wart KJ, could not answer for fear of revealing the ignorance of the Trinity!!!
Yes I can answe you in truth and spirit.God is NOT a trinity.
He cannot be confined into his manifestations.
He is eternal and infinite.
———–
You say that he would reveal his true servants to me, he has.As christians we all grow in spirit and truth.
No one is a sinner, then immediately becomes a perfect christian. We all grow, develope and mature as christians.His true servants on these forums are the ones who seek him in honesty. They look for HIS truth as oppose to their own truths.
Many of you here are his true servants because you seek HIS truth at the expense of your own.
If you love your God with all your heart, mind, and soul…and you love your neighbor as you do yourself unto death. You are truly his.
—————–
Scripture doesn't tell us to believe God has come in flesh, scripture tells us to believe Jesus is FROM GOD.In the same way, if you drew a cup of ocean water from the Ocean, the cup of ocean water is FROM THE OCEAN.
In our case… YHVH is the Ocean, The cup is Jesus' phsyical Body as a man, and the ocean water is his Godly spirit.
The cupe of ocean water isn't the Ocean itself, but it certainly COMES FROM THE OCEAN.
That is the only requisite that bible has concerning Jesus.
That is why the debate between if Jesus is God or not is meaningless. God doesn't care…both anti-trinitarians and trinitarians at least agree Jesus is from God…and thats all we need to know to be saved. The purpose of understanding he is God, however, is to help you grow and come into full realization of God's sacrifice.
————————
No, God cannot die, but his manifestation as temporary perishable flesh certainly can. And that is exactly what happened. His flesh died.The reason it was such a big deal is because he wasn't born of a man. He came from a virgin birth. Because of that he was not heir to Adam's sin. He was heir to God's righteousness and should have ascended into heaven AS A MAN.
But because God loved us, he allowed him to condemned as a sinner even though no sin was found in him. In doing so, he drew all the sins of the world unto that death, and put sin to death in HIS death. The spirit of God as jesus was then sent to Abraham's Bosom to unlock the gates and create a way for those who believe in him to find their way to Heaven with The Father. He literally created a path to heaven through his death.
———-
I've answered all your questions, do you have anymore?
———————RM,
You have presented AN answer. Politicians are experts at providing answers that are not answers but only appear that way.Additionally, You cannot decide that you have answered me.
What you should say us, 'Have I answered you, to your satisfaction?'Then I say, 'yeh', or ,'neh'.
As what did Jesus die, God or Man?
Was Jesus Man or was he God?
There is no such thing as a God-Man.
Not a single word of Scriptures alludes to such a being. Or else show me what the delusional spirit put into your mind to show that…
Besides, what does the Scriptures say about concerning God and His [Manifestation], 'For us there is ONE GOD, the Father, and ONE Lord, the MAN Jesus Christ'
And also, among many others, (Ephesians 4:13), “till we come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a Perfect Man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.”And also, if Jesus did not die, except his flesh died, then what need was there for God raising up his flesh body. After all, even angels can create flesh and bone bodies!
Corinthians 15:45~49, …the last Adam (man created sinless) … The 'heavenly MAN', not 'God'…
And your ocean analogy doesn't hold water…
If Jesus is the cup then and the cup is his physical body…that would mean that his 'cup'/Physical body holds the full ocean seeing that God 'Scooped' up the Holy Spirit into Jesus…'without measure'.
Besides, the whole analogy was jibberish to start with. Which muddy stream did you dredge that up from?1 John 4: 1~… Read it…
You say that Jesus is God…come in the flesh…??
Nowhere in Scriptures does it say that God came in the flesh but yet You say so.GOD came in the flesh (False)
Jesus came in the flesh (True)
Therefore Jesus is God…(False and True = False)Quote (RokkaMan @ June 20 2010,04:29) So in otherwords brother Oxy, The bible is certainly NOT The Word of God. It is THE INSPIRED WORDS OF GOD…The Law, Prohpechy, and work of God that REVEALS The Word of God that is Christ Jesus.
EVERYTHING in the bible was leading to Jesus.
The Word of God in fact is God himself, and the bible are his inspired words written by man to reveal himself unto mankind.
Pretty much on the same page with you there, but the Word became flesh as you know, and has been raised up and given all authority by the Father and when all is done He will hand that back to the Father, so yes He (the Word) is God and is with God as it was in the beginning, in accordance with His prayer in John 17.5
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