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proverbs 8:27-31 – when he prepared the heavens i was there, then it goes on to say the things on the earth were created , verse 30 reads — then i was beside him as a master craftsman
does that sound like jesus is only a thought or idea. so if the bible says that jesus was the firstborn creation and all things wer emade through him by god and that he (jesus) was beside him as a master craftsman.
humm??? well a idea is not a master craftsman but someone who actually was and was used to create would be.
you own opinion makes no sense when actually used in scriptures.
the scripture says that jesus was there beside god as a master craftsman.
how you can deny that and add your own to it. are you jut pulling my leg or are you for real???
a thought or idea or plan is not something to be described as someone saying they were there creating and being a master craftsman.
you need t oread before you try to disprove god's word tht is right there clearly and not confusing or without a cetain point
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 07 2009,11:00) In other words this passage certainly does not explicitly state Jesus ii preexistent and actually states he would be formed in Mary’s womb.
The question is do you believe scripture when it explicitly states Jesus was conceived in Mary’s womb or do you believe in the traditions of man.
Hi Kerwin,What's your take on this verse?
Jer.1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;
and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee,
and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Dec. 07 2009,14:19) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 07 2009,11:00) In other words this passage certainly does not explicitly state Jesus ii preexistent and actually states he would be formed in Mary’s womb.
The question is do you believe scripture when it explicitly states Jesus was conceived in Mary’s womb or do you believe in the traditions of man.
Hi Kerwin,What's your take on this verse?
Jer.1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;
and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee,
and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
was that not about Jeremiah?Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,13:07) proverbs 8:27-31 – when he prepared the heavens i was there, then it goes on to say the things on the earth were created , verse 30 reads — then i was beside him as a master craftsman does that sound like jesus is only a thought or idea. so if the bible says that jesus was the firstborn creation and all things wer emade through him by god and that he (jesus) was beside him as a master craftsman.
humm??? well a idea is not a master craftsman but someone who actually was and was used to create would be.
you own opinion makes no sense when actually used in scriptures.
the scripture says that jesus was there beside god as a master craftsman.
how you can deny that and add your own to it. are you jut pulling my leg or are you for real???
a thought or idea or plan is not something to be described as someone saying they were there creating and being a master craftsman.
you need t oread before you try to disprove god's word tht is right there clearly and not confusing or without a cetain point
So now Jesus is a she?Proverbs 8
1Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?2She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
3She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.
4 months? study more and post less, maybe?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,15:06) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,13:07) proverbs 8:27-31 – when he prepared the heavens i was there, then it goes on to say the things on the earth were created , verse 30 reads — then i was beside him as a master craftsman does that sound like jesus is only a thought or idea. so if the bible says that jesus was the firstborn creation and all things wer emade through him by god and that he (jesus) was beside him as a master craftsman.
humm??? well a idea is not a master craftsman but someone who actually was and was used to create would be.
you own opinion makes no sense when actually used in scriptures.
the scripture says that jesus was there beside god as a master craftsman.
how you can deny that and add your own to it. are you jut pulling my leg or are you for real???
a thought or idea or plan is not something to be described as someone saying they were there creating and being a master craftsman.
you need t oread before you try to disprove god's word tht is right there clearly and not confusing or without a cetain point
So now Jesus is a she?Proverbs 8
1Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?2She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
3She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.
4 months? study more and post less, maybe?
what are you talking about?
?it says proverbs 8:27-31
where do you get 8:1-3
now u attack me for your mistake.
did all those who bear witness or were used by god , were they all so knowledgeable and all knowing.
did they have all insight and never needing to learn, did they not have help from gods holy spirit.
you think you know all and there is nothing you don't know, you act as if there is nothing to learn.
your eyes are blinded.
bibloe says do not boast oneself, thts why works of man is not the way to salvation.
you boast and think your not needing any truth or light.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,15:06) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,13:07) proverbs 8:27-31 – when he prepared the heavens i was there, then it goes on to say the things on the earth were created , verse 30 reads — then i was beside him as a master craftsman does that sound like jesus is only a thought or idea. so if the bible says that jesus was the firstborn creation and all things wer emade through him by god and that he (jesus) was beside him as a master craftsman.
humm??? well a idea is not a master craftsman but someone who actually was and was used to create would be.
you own opinion makes no sense when actually used in scriptures.
the scripture says that jesus was there beside god as a master craftsman.
how you can deny that and add your own to it. are you jut pulling my leg or are you for real???
a thought or idea or plan is not something to be described as someone saying they were there creating and being a master craftsman.
you need t oread before you try to disprove god's word tht is right there clearly and not confusing or without a cetain point
So now Jesus is a she?Proverbs 8
1Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?2She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
3She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.
4 months? study more and post less, maybe?
proof you ignore what is there. you truely don't read, you already think you know.peace2all wrote:
Quote what will you gain from that question?
I am seeking to find what you believe makes the individual. Is it the soul or the flesh? It is relevant to whether your doctrine is internally consistent as Jesus is either a human being or a spiritual being since if you were both you would be a hybrid.
peace2all wrote:
Quote we were created from god through jesus from the earth. we were not created in heaven in sprit form then come to earth.
It does not state that in the bible.
peace2all wrote:
Quote the scriptures states jesus as saying he was with god and that he came from the heavens , he is stated to be the firstborn of creation.
They do not state that as I pointed out. You are the one who interprets the words of those scriptures in such a way.
peace2all wrote:
Quote you offer nothing but your speculation. not god's scriptures.
You should actually be careful to read scriptures which do in fact say just what I did.
Here are some that teach about the new creation that is created in the Anointed One.
Romans 8:18-25(NIV) reads:
Quote I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.And
Galatians 6:15(NIV) reads:
Quote Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.
And
2 Corinthians 5:17-21 reads:
Quote Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
On the issue of preexistence of Jesus scripture not only states he was formed in Mary’s womb but also states that God planned for his coming since the beginning of the world.
Ephesians 1:3-10(NIV) reads:
Quote Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
And
1 Peter 1:18-21(NIV) reads:
Quote For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
So I am just pointed out that instead of Jesus being preexistent you are confused in your understanding and that 1) All is created anew in Jesus the Anointed One and 2) God planned for it before the beginning of the World.
As for Jesus being a human being just like other human beings. I believe this scripture in Hebrews best makes that case. reads:
Hebrews 4:15(NIV) reads:
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.
peace2all wrote:
then you better believe it. i am not adding my opinion or assumption to it .
You assume that it is speaking of the old creation and not the new. Scripture tells us that through Jesus we all become new creations.
peace2all wrote:Quote really it clearly says he is from heaven and we are from the earth. He is sprit being we are man made from the earth created by god through Jesus, as the bible says also.
You are not using a godly worldview. Here is a scripture I hope will put things in context for you.
Romans 12:1-2(NIV) reads:
Quote Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any lo
nger to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.The godly conform to the pattern of heaven while the ungodly conform to the pattern of this world. In other words the godly come from heaven and the ungodly from below.
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 07 2009,09:19) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 07 2009,11:00) In other words this passage certainly does not explicitly state Jesus ii preexistent and actually states he would be formed in Mary’s womb.
The question is do you believe scripture when it explicitly states Jesus was conceived in Mary’s womb or do you believe in the traditions of man.
Hi Kerwin,What's your take on this verse?
Jer.1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;
and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee,
and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
God is all knowing and all powerful and knows and the path of events before they happen. Some assume that means we are puppets in his hands but it is probably more like a chess master who sees many moves in advance and plays accordingly. The difference is that each piece is making its choices instead of an opponent.God saw a new for Jeremiah and thus chose the time an place for Jeremiah to be conceived to do the work God laid out for him. God knew the kind of man Jeremiah would be before Jeremiah was thought of by his mother and planned accordingly.
Scripture tells us repeatedly the same about Jesus. Judas was even prophesied in scripture long before his conception though the scripture.
I hope that answers your question.
kerwin you are not adding any scriptures just your opinion.
the bible says jesus is the fristborn of creation. it says that god created all thru jesus. it says man was created from dust, and dust we will return. from the earth we were made and the earth we return.
were do you get anything different, where do you get we are siprit beings and came from heaven.nowhere does it say that.
you were saying you are a spirit being and not a descendeant of adam. adam was created from the earth. it doesn't say adam was created as jesus or the angels were!! and then brough down to earth!!
god created us from the earth then gave us the breath of life a living soul. that is not the same as being created in heaven as a spirit being!
all those who reside in heaven they are spirit beings.
it says specifically what you deny i am not making it up. you are.
you make no sense to your arguements at all.
sorry you do not beleive the good news of the bible, god's inpired words.
hi kerwin
in the case of judas it was easy ,there probably was a greath choise available,righteous was more rare.
Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.
Pr 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;
Pr 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
Pr 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
Pr 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
Pr 8:28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
Pr 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after daykerwin, so the bible doesn't say that man was made from dust and will return to dust from whence he came?
the bible doesn't say that god's son wasn't the firstborn of creation?
that god's son all was created and that he said he was beside god before all was made and that he was a master craftman after all ws created?
the bible does say that, so then when man was created out of the earth from dust it was from god through his son.
therefore god is not his son and the son is not god.
therefore god's son was in heaven before earth was and thus a spirit being first.
you can't deny nor say i make it up and that the bible does not say that. it does say that.
however the things you claim are not located in the holy scripture.
you also for some reason are cutting and pasting quotes fromn others and acting as if i wrote them. you cut mine that are from various conversations and not when they were used in consestion one after another so you are leaving out things and only argueing some. i guess you try to only argue those that you feel comfortable trying to twist with non scriptural backing and adding only your opinin.
i quote scriptures that say what i repeat, that means its not my word or opinion but the bibles.
your disproof is your words only, when adding comment to that scripture. you cannot fight the truth thats why you come up with no rebuttle to that scripture quoted with other scripture. the bible is not going to clearly tell you something then let you find a different view to the same answer. you will get a consitant answer on a topic not multiple routes.
the bible is not going to tell you at different points in the bible the same thing to an answer then all of a sudden throw in there teh complete opposite. that would make god's word useless to believe.
that will never happen
peace2all wrote:
Quote were do you get anything different, where do you get we are spirit beings and came from heaven. Nowhere does it say that.
I see that we are having difficulties communicating as I am speaking of a spiritual locations while you are speaking of physical locations. Demons are spirit beings and yet are from the world because their actions of the world while angels are from heaven as their actions are from heaven. The same is true of human beings though they are clothed in bodies of perishable flesh and blood. You body is as nothing as it is your spirit which determines where you come from and if your spirit is from God then you are from above but if your spirit is from the devil then you are from the world. I am not stating this makes one a spiritual being though I do hold that a person is their soul and their spirit is the “fundamental and activating principal determining one’s character”.
Hebrews 12:9(KJV) reads:
Quote Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
And
Romans 8:13-17(KJV) reads:
Quote For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
peace2all wrote:Quote the bible says jesus is the fristborn of creation. it says that god created all thru jesus. it says man was created from dust, and dust we will return. from the earth we were made and the earth we return.
Jesus is the firstborn of all creation but that does not mean he was born previous to all others. It means he is the most important one. Scripture tells us that God will recreate everything through Jesus and is currently working toward that goal now. The new creation is superior to the old which is currently passing away. Look at Colossians where it states”
Colossians 1:18(NIV) reads:
Quote And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Notice it states he is the firstborn from among the dead. It then states the reason why and that reason is “so in everything he might have supremacy”. It does not indicate he already had supremacy and in fact what Jesus tells the Eleven is that God made him King over everything in heaven and on earth. We know from this that at one time he was not King over everything in heaven and on earth.
One thing that you do not seem to have address is that I believe that Jesus is a human being and in order to be a human being he must have the soul of a human being. By soul I mean the essential element or in other words the indispensable part of an individual.
Terraricca wrote:
Quote in the case of Judas it was easy ,there probably was a great choice available, righteousness was more rare.
Though your point that a great choice is available for a sinner and righteousness is rare is correct I believe you are unaware of the scripture I speak of.
Zechariah 11:10-13(NIV) reads:
Quote
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations. 11 It was revoked on that day, and so the afflicted of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the LORD. I told them, “If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.” So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said to me, “Throw it to the potter”-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.
That is what scripture tells us happened as well.God has plans for you and me but it is each of us that will determine whether those plans are for good or ill. We determine it by our choices. Judas chose to embrace a path that led to illness for him though salvation for others.
I am not sure why you chose to quote Psalms 8 which is about the call of Wisdom who the writer gives addresses as a female. Wisdom is not a goddess as some would like to claim but rather she is a characteristic that the writer is urging the reader to acquire. It is wise to seek the Lord with all your soul, heart, and mind.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 09 2009,20:37) peace2all wrote: Quote were do you get anything different, where do you get we are spirit beings and came from heaven. Nowhere does it say that.
I see that we are having difficulties communicating as I am speaking of a spiritual locations while you are speaking of physical locations. Demons are spirit beings and yet are from the world because their actions of the world while angels are from heaven as their actions are from heaven. The same is true of human beings though they are clothed in bodies of perishable flesh and blood. You body is as nothing as it is your spirit which determines where you come from and if your spirit is from God then you are from above but if your spirit is from the devil then you are from the world. I am not stating this makes one a spiritual being though I do hold that a person is their soul and their spirit is the “fundamental and activating principal determining one’s character”.
Hebrews 12:9(KJV) reads:
Quote Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
And
Romans 8:13-17(KJV) reads:
Quote For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
peace2all wrote:Quote the bible says jesus is the fristborn of creation. it says that god created all thru jesus. it says man was created from dust, and dust we will return. from the earth we were made and the earth we return.
Jesus is the firstborn of all creation but that does not mean he was born previous to all others. It means he is the most important one. Scripture tells us that God will recreate everything through Jesus and is currently working toward that goal now. The new creation is superior to the old which is currently passing away. Look at Colossians where it states”
Colossians 1:18(NIV) reads:
Quote And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Notice it states he is the firstborn from among the dead. It then states the reason why and that reason is “so in everything he might have supremacy”. It does not indicate he already had supremacy and in fact what Jesus tells the Eleven is that God made him King over everything in heaven and on earth. We know from this that at one time he was not King over everything in heaven and on earth.
One thing that you do not seem to have address is that I believe that Jesus is a human being and in order to be a human being he must have the soul of a human being. By soul I mean the essential element or in other words the indispensable part of an individual.
well if he is the firstborn from the dead he was first that came out(from) the dead,if he is the first of creation and the was used t ocreate all then he would have to have been first to hav ebeen there to be used.
i use the words you are going out of your way to try to interpet.
there is no reason to try to interpet unless you wan to believve something else and not waht god is saying.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 07 2009,11:00) peace2all wrote: Quote why do you want to argue, just accept truth if it is shown.
I asked a question and you chose not to answer it. The question being “is the body of a human being with a demon soul a human or a demon?” Are you afraid of the answer?
peace2all wrote:
Quote john 6:38 -for i have come down from heaven , not to do my will but the will of him who sent me. this is the will of the father
John 6:38 does not explicitly state that Jesus is preexistent. You are assuming that is true. Do you doubt that God sent Jesus as he sent the prophets before hand? Do you doubt that they were ordained by heaven? Where else do you think the people of God come from if not from heaven? If you are truly a servant of God then you to come from above as you actions will testify.
peace2all wrote:
Quote john 8:23 – you are from beneath, i am from above, you are from this world, i am not of this world
This one does not explicitly state Jesus was preexistent but it does state those who do the works of their father the devil are from below which is why they would die in their sins. He was obviously not speaking about believers.
peace2all wrote:
Quote jhn 17:5 – glorify me together with yourself with the glory i had with you before the world was.
This also does not explicitly state Jesus is preexistent. I would state you have trouble comprehending the sentence since it in other words states “apply the glory today you have waiting for me before the world existed“. He obviously is not stating that he was glorified before the world began or he would not ask to be glorified at that time.
peace2all wrote:
Quote colossians 1:15-17 – he is the image of the invisible god the firstborn over all creation. for by him all things that were created in heaven and on earth ,all things were created through him and for him.
This scripture does not explicitly state Jesus is preexistent. It is true that through Jesus we are all a new creation for the first has passed away. If we were all in created through Jesus in the first place then no hope for salvation remains as we have all gone astray. It is through the new covenant that one is created in Jesus or do you believe scripture is wrong on that point. I ask because that is the point you are making.
peace2all wrote:
Quote proverbs 8:22 – god possed me at the beginning of his way before his works of old. i have been established from everlasting, from the beginning before there was ever a earth
proverbs 8:27-31 – when he prepared the heavens i was there, then it goes on to say the things on the earth, verse 30 reads — then i was beside him as a master craftsman
These two are about Wisdom and not about Jesus. John 1:1 is speaking of God’s Word which is wisdom and so they do apply to John 1:1 though they obviously do not explicitly state Jesus is preexistent since they are not about him.
peace2all wrote:
Quote luke 1:30-40
I am not sure what version of scripture you chose to use so I am not addressing it specifically. I can address the passage by pointing out that in verse 33 the King James Version states the angel spoke in the future tense by stating “He shall be great.” the New International Version uses similar words. In verse 31 the angel tells Mary Jesus will be formed in her womb which is obviously not beforehand. In other words this passage certainly does not explicitly state Jesus ii preexistent and actually states he would be formed in Mary’s womb. The question is do you believe scripture when it explicitly states Jesus was conceived in Mary’s womb or do you believe in the traditions of man.
peace2all wrote:
Quote i'm sure there are others, im kinda new to this all.
I consider that a plus since there is a lot of deception that Satan has put into modern Christian doctrines and I believe those who have been immersed in any of them for a briefer time may have a better chance of seeing though it as they become more informed.
I assure you that scripture is true when it states Jesus is a human being just like you and me though he unlike us and always been and remains totally faithful to God. It is through faith in him and so obeying all his teachings that we too can claim that prize for he leads us true. Trust in Jesus. Trust in God.
when you have a message that is constant through out het scruptures regarding his heavenly place then it rings true.he spoke of being firstborn of creation other scriptures state that he came from above, that he did reside in heaven before all and had made with god all things and he was like a master craftsman.
it all is constant and rings true, you can't mistake that. that glory he had before all.
do you not have such love and have glory for your child. because one does not as a new creation or child having done works does tht mean that they are not loved so much. the love in your heart and eyes show forth.
definition of glory fits in well for that.
praise, honor,resplendent beauty or magnificence,rejoice proudly .
you saying that god could not have rejoiced over his son, over his first creation. that he could not honor and praise or be proud of it.
thats what you are saying.
yu think only of glory to it being associated with works and thats not true.
did god send his prophets by means of sending down as he did jesus. no. they were instructed by angels or vision(dreams)) from god. they were instructed by voices from angels conveying the message of god.
you are the one assuming on all of your defense.
if he was just like you and i nothing more , than any other man before him or animal would have took away the sin dominion over us and givene us forgiveness in god's eyes then and his blood would not have cleansed us and sanctified us.
however jesus was the only one who could thats why that message is reverberated in scripture!
if not then there was no point in him comming was there. do h
ave it mean so much.don't demean his impotrance to us all.
again all the scriptures are in one constant idea , focus, thouhgt, meaning. that he was in heaven as a spirit bieng with his fater helping create all before commimg to earth.
scritpures tell teh story not me, i only sow you where it is.
peace2all,
Like the Saducees before you it is obvious that you fail to understand scripture. When scripture declares Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb it means he was formed in her womb and not before and yet you refuse to believe. The question is “why?”. Is it because you place the teachings of man before God or is it because you fear finding out that Jesus is a man just like you who was fully tempted as you have been and yet he dd not sin. I admit it is a challenge but if we obey all of Jesus teachings then he will sent the Spirit and we to can stop sinning by walking according to the ways of the Spirit. We have his word on that and he is faithful.
Jesus is the author of the new covenant the firstborn of from the dead and of a new creation. It is up to us to make the choice whether to follow him and truly make him King of our lives by obeying him in all things.
Considering the large number of diverse posts on the subject of John 1:1, allow me to comment without addressing anyone’s post specifically.
The interpretation of John 1:1 depends on your fundamental theology whether Jesus existed before He was born as Jesus 2000 years ago or not. If your paradigm is preexistence then you will read John 1:1 as: In the beginning was the WORD (meaning Jesus), and the WORD (meaning Jesus) was with God, and the WORD (meaning Jesus) was God. This falls in line with traditional Roman Catholic Trinitarian (mystery) teaching.
But that is not what the Bible says. It says: “In the beginning was the WORD.” First of all let’s define “beginning.” I believe it to mean from all eternity and throughout Old Testament time. Secondly, we need to ask: Who’s WORD was in the beginning? My answer: It was the WORD of God. So now, John 1:1 reads: “In the beginning was the WORD (of God), and the WORD (of God) was with God, and the WORD (of God) was God.” For a better understanding we can personify John 1:1 to read: In the beginning is my word, and my word is with me, and my word is me. In other words, in the beginning was ONE God, Yahweh Elohim and (it) His WORD. It was through (it) His WORD that God created the heavens and the earth – God spoke and it was! John 1:1 tells us who and what was in the beginning and throughout Old Testament time.
Now we come to John 1:2 which says: “He was in the beginning with God.” Notice the change from “it” – the WORD, to “He” – Jesus, after the WORD became FLESH in John 1:14, telling us what was then, in New Testament time.
Gen.1:1 says exactly the same as John 1:1 that in the beginning was ONE God – God Almighty. This ONE God then decided to raise up for Himself a family, and so He chose the slave nation Israel and entered into a marriage covenant with Israel at Mt Sinai. In the “fullness of time” God chose the Jewess Mary, representing all of Israel – His wife, as the (surrogate) Mother of their only (so) begotten and firstborn Son, whom they named Jesus.
God is not Trinitarian, not Twinitarian and not Unitarian. God is monotheistic from beginning to end. There was but ONE God Being from the beginning and throughout Old Testament time, and there is but ONE God Family throughout New Testament time and into the Kingdome age.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 10 2009,16:19) peace2all, Like the Saducees before you it is obvious that you fail to understand scripture. When scripture declares Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb it means he was formed in her womb and not before and yet you refuse to believe. The question is “why?”. Is it because you place the teachings of man before God or is it because you fear finding out that Jesus is a man just like you who was fully tempted as you have been and yet he dd not sin. I admit it is a challenge but if we obey all of Jesus teachings then he will sent the Spirit and we to can stop sinning by walking according to the ways of the Spirit. We have his word on that and he is faithful.
Jesus is the author of the new covenant the firstborn of from the dead and of a new creation. It is up to us to make the choice whether to follow him and truly make him King of our lives by obeying him in all things.
kerwin ,i've noticed people cut and past words from different scriptures to make a point or you use scripture, but use there own interpretation instead of reading multiple verses discussing topic that are all related in topic and constant in message
i've also noticed people use scriptures tht don't even relate to the topic and try to use them. that cracks me up.
or one slowely drifts off topic with questions that slowly fade to other stuff. EX: like talking about jesus ransom and what it means and did for us, and one will then go ” oh he preached love” LOL like that had anything to do hte topic
i put forth a bunch of scriptures you've read i think,. but who knows.
they all validate the outcome that he was with god when they created all together.
he was god's son before he became our jesus christ.
if the message is constant and agree to each other, than it is .
the bible will not contradict itself. you add opinions, ive used scriptures.
how can he go from wence he came as he stated if he never was there to begin with as you claim. he is from above as he said. if he never was there to begin with then he can not say he was.
the scriptures say he was there before the heavens and earth was made, that he thru god created all and he was like a master craftman. that he was beside god.
he was going back from wence he came. that he is from above.
you add nothing but talk. go back and look at the scriptures shown.
you do not need to imagine a new outcome from what is clear.
the bible is very clear and easy to understand when you want an answer.
there will be many scriptures backing itself up to be constant and forward to not leave the mistake you are making.
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