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Quite so CTL,
Jn 8 58
” Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born I am”
Jn 8.14
“…I know where I came from and where I am going;but you do not know where I came from or where I am going”
Jn 8.23
” And he was saying to them 'You are from below, I am from above ;you are of this world;I am not of this world”
Jn 819
” You know neither me nor my Father;if you knew me you would know my Father also”Jesus would say the same things today. He existed before Abraham and came from heaven, sent by the Father and men who do not recognise him do not know the Father either.
Hi WIT,
Acts 17.18“… ' He seems to be a proclaimer of strange deities'-because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection”
Sound familiar?
Hi,
The only begotten Son of God, with the Father as the Word in the beginning, chose obedience to God and emptied himself becoming for a little while less than the angels and partaking of flesh.He lived as one of us, no different apart from his love for wisdom shown teaching in the temple as a child. He also recognised his true Father at that age but went back and was subject to his human parents.He later took up carpentry living possibly in Capernaum till the age of 30.
He was transformed into a man of power when he was baptised by water and anointed by the Spirit in the form of a dove and assumed his role in the power of God's Spirit. God worked through him His works by the Spirit.
We can follow him by repenting and being baptised into his death and filled with the Spirit of God unto eternity.
Hi,
If the Word was with God in the beginning
and the only begotten Son was sent from heaven
then the terms are interchangeable and
the Fatherhood of God preceded the conception of Jesus.Hey Nick, I don't understand.
I agree with you, but don't understand what you mean when you say “the terms are interchangeable” and conclude that the Fatherhood of God preceded the conception of Jesus.
Hi david,
Jn 1.1″In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with God..”Jn 3.16f
“For God so loved the world , that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through him”Who was with the God ? The Word.
Who was given to the world? The Son
Who was sent by the Father? the Son.So did the Son become the Son when he partook of flesh? No.
So was he a Son before he was sent? Yes.So is is the Son equivalent to the Word? Yes, in my view.
It appears that this post was begun by a Witness.
Anyway, you say “Yes, in my view” as though there are some who don't believe this, or you're uncertain. But I know you're not uncertain.
In the Christian Greek Scriptures “the Word” (Gr., ho Lo´gos) does appear as a title. (Joh 1:1, 14; Re 19:13) The apostle John identified the one to whom this title belongs, namely, Jesus, he being so designated not only during his ministry on earth as a perfect man but also during his prehuman spirit existence as well as after his exaltation to heaven.
I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't think that the Son was equivalent to the Word.
Hi david,
Many believe he was the Word but only became a son at his conception in the womb of Mary. In that case scripture would not say God sent the Son but He sent the Word. And other sons seen in Gen 6 and Job 1,2,38 would have been sons before THE Son of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 21 2005,06:16) Jn 1.1″In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with God..” …
… Who was with the God ? The Word.
Who was given to the world? The Son
Who was sent by the Father? the Son.So did the Son become the Son when he partook of flesh? No.
So was he a Son before he was sent? Yes.So is is the Son equivalent to the Word? Yes, in my view.
The above made me think of this following quote by Colin Brown …
“It is a common but patent misreading of the opening of John’s Gospel to read it as if it said:
“In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God and the Son was God.” “Hi Adam Pastor,
The Son was sent into the world according to scripture. When was this?
Was it after his conception as a man at his birth?
Unrecorded and unlikely as infants do not understand speech
Was it at his baptism?
He was already in the world.
He came and partook of flesh willingly.
So when was he sent?When was he sent?
About the same time, John was sent from GOD? [John 1:6]
About the same time, Christ's disciples were sent into the world!! (John 17:18) As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
In other words, neither John the Baptist nor Christ's disciples literally pre-existed their birth/conception. Yet they were sent into the world i.e. commissioned by GOD.
In like manner, Jesus the Son of GOD was sent into the world i.e. commissioned by GOD. Sent into the world simply means commissioned to send GOD's message to the world. It does not mean to pre-exist in some other-worldly state nor to come from outer space into planet earth.
The disciples spent over 3 years with Christ and THEN they were sent into the world! Yet, they were already in the world!!
Quote Colin Brown rightly said
“It is a common but patent misreading of the opening of John’s Gospel to read it as if it said:
“In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God and the Son was God.” “Hi Adam Pastor,
John was a prophet. He and the other prophets are shown as slaves in Mt 21.33f. Likewise the disciples are shown as bondservants. They were all chosen and equipped by the Spirit to do the work of God among men. Slaves are bought and bondservants are also committed for life. But neither are born into the family. Neither can claim to be kept as of right or likely to inherit anything.Neither are inheritors by descent. Sons are different.They are born into the family and inherit as of right.The Son of God is different. He is shown in Mt 21.37 as being a son when he was sent.
” But afterwards he sent his son to them saying
'They will respect my son'
But when the vinegrowers saw the son, they said among themselves
'This is the heir;come let us kill him and seize his inheritance' “Hi Adam Pastor,
Phil 2.5
” Hane this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who , though he existed in the form of God, did mnnot regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emoptied himself, taking the form of a bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross”
He existed in the form of God.
He rejected seeking equality with God.
He emptied himself.
He took the form of a bondservant..
Then
Being made in the likeness of men he humbled himself and became obedient unto death.He, the only begotten Son, was sent from heaven to earth.
We are not in the form of God.
We cannot seek equality with God.
We inherit the flesh of Adam and are enlived too with the breath of God.He who was with God took on flesh becoming like to us in every way.
Who is greater? The one sent or the one doing the sending?
Quote About the same time, Christ's disciples were sent into the world!! (John 17:18) As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. In other words, neither John the Baptist nor Christ's disciples literally pre-existed their birth/conception. Yet they were sent into the world i.e. commissioned by GOD.
“In other words, neither John….”
Yes, those are “other words.” They are not the same words. Nor the same thought.
Does not life teach us that the one doing the sending is always greater than the one sent?
Does not life teach us that a Father is greater, more knowledgeable, and older than his son?
If not life, then the Bible should.Hi david and Adam Pastor,
What about the testimony of John, God's slave, in Jn 1.15?” John testified about him and cried out saying
'This is he of whom I said
” He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for he existed before me””John was born before Jesus so how could it be said that Jesus existed before him?
Of course he did as Jn 1.10 said of Jesus;
” He was in the world and the world was made through him, and the world did not know him”
Right. Isn't there also a scripture where Jesus says: I am from the relams above.
How is this to be taken, if not to mean he is from heaven?
Yes he did david,
and he said in Jn 6.46
” Not that anyone has seen the Father , except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father”Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 23 2005,22:53) and
in Jn 8:23
” …You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world”
Compare …(John 15:19) If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
(John 17:14-16) I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Jesus said that his disciples were not of the world even as he himself was not of this world!
Yet, the disciples neither came from heaven nor did they pre-exist their conceptions/births!Hmmm!
Could it be that the disciples were not of the world even in the same sense that Jesus their Master was not of the world … could it be that simple!! Selah.
Hi Adam P,
Jn 6 32f
” ..it is my Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven and gives life to the world….I am the bread of Life;he who come to me will not hunger, and he who believes in me will never thirst.. For I have come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of Him who sent me..I am the bread of life…I am the living bread that came down out of heaven.”
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