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Quote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,01:09) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,04:07) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,18:27) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,13:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
This means that Jesus is mere flesh only.Yet Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him.
Did Jesus have a soul or is he a soul? Or is he less than us for not having one. Just a flesh being.
I personally do not go along with the view that anyone is just a body of flesh that comes alive when God's spirit enters.
Why? Because we have a spirit.
God's Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. We are more than mere flesh and so was Jesus.
And is the poetic form you speak of a lie?
T8,Jesus gave the Word the whole human being but I chose to emphasize the flesh. As the Heir Jesus came to fill the same role as the Word has previously filled.
The poetic form I am writing of is using words in an abstract manner to reveal ideas, relationships, and other things. The truth is in the intend and the interpretation.
No, I can't go along with any of this. Hebrews 1 God spoke to humanity through the prophets, and in divers manners, has in these last days spoken to humanity through His Firstborn Son. The Word or logos are the declaration of the thoughts as expressed in His Words or actions.We need to stick to the scriptures in seeking for our understanding.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,I assume you mean my words.
I am not seeing where what you quote disagree as God who spoke through the Word in various manners, has in these last days spoke through his Heir, even though he still used prophets, angels, and diverse means. Those prophets, and angels, and diverse means are now under Jesus' authority, who serves in the role the Word.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 05 2013,04:02) TO all……..Sense sin came by a 100% human being it had to be atoned for by a 100% human being. In order to Aline with the law of God nothing less or more then a pure human being could pay the debt. Jesus only as a pure human could qualified to pay it . He redeemed us, a complete human life for our human life , he could not have been a God because a God could not pay for it, because a GOD can't die, . Scripture says Sin entered in by MAN and BY MAN (Jesus Christ) it is atoned for. nothing else would fulfill the requirements of GOD'S Law. A Morphed preexistent being would not have meet the law requirements. Jesus only could only qualify as our KINSMEN REDEEMER by being a 100% pure human being, born the same way we are through a human mother . That is why it says he is the FIRST BORN OF “MANY” BRETHREN . Nowhere did Jesus ever SEPERATE HIMSELF from his human brothers and sisters flesh existence, even after he was resurrected he said he was flesh and bone. He is still flesh and bone and will return that way also. IMO Gene
Gene,Your words sound correct.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 05 2013,04:17) T8……Yes Jesus was a living SOUL he had FLESH and SPIRIT IN IT! which made him a LIVING Soul and he remained tha way until he died and then the spirit left him and returned to the father just as all spirits in flesh does when the flesh dies and that is it for ever , that soul no longer exists, until a body is resurrected and spirit added back into it and then it becomes a living soul again. That is why we all need to attain to the resurrection of our BODIES to have life again. just as Paul said , we all hope for the resurrection from the dead that will witness the redemption of our BODIES. Gene
Gene,These words sound flawed though though this is not the place to speak of it. I am trying to show that using the word “it” can lead person's of a certain mindset to view the Word differently than when the word “he” is used in the same passage.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 05 2013,04:02) TO all……..Sense sin came by a 100% human being it had to be atoned for by a 100% human being. In order to Aline with the law of God nothing less or more then a pure human being could pay the debt. Jesus only as a pure human could qualified to pay it . He redeemed us, a complete human life for our human life , he could not have been a God because a God could not pay for it, because a GOD can't die, . Scripture says Sin entered in by MAN and BY MAN (Jesus Christ) it is atoned for. nothing else would fulfill the requirements of GOD'S Law. A Morphed preexistent being would not have meet the law requirements. Jesus only could only qualify as our KINSMEN REDEEMER by being a 100% pure human being, born the same way we are through a human mother . That is why it says he is the FIRST BORN OF “MANY” BRETHREN . Nowhere did Jesus ever SEPERATE HIMSELF from his human brothers and sisters flesh existence, even after he was resurrected he said he was flesh and bone. He is still flesh and bone and will return that way also. IMO Gene
NO MEN CAN SAVE ANOTHER ,NOR HIMSELFIsa 49:1 Listen to me, you islands;
hear this, you distant nations:
Before I was born the LORD called me;
from my birth he has made mention of my name.
Isa 49:2 He made my mouth like a sharpened sword,
in the shadow of his hand he hid me;
he made me into a polished arrow
and concealed me in his quiver.
Isa 49:3 He said to me, “You are my servant,
Israel, in whom I will display my splendor.”
Isa 49:4 But I said, “I have labored to no purpose;
I have spent my strength in vain and for nothing.
Yet what is due me is in the LORD'S hand,
and my reward is with my God.”“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth.”Isa 49:8 This is what the LORD says:
“In the time of my favor I will answer you,
and in the day of salvation I will help you;
I will keep you and will make you
to be a covenant for the people,
to restore the landPS 49:7 No man can by any means redeem his brother
Or give to God a ransom for him—SEE THIS “” BY ANY MEANS ” REDEEM HIS BROTHER OR GIVE RANSOM FOR HIM(SELF) “””
AGAIN “”” NO MAN “”” DO YOU READ THIS
? DO YOU SEE THIS ? DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS ?DO YOU BELIEVE THIS
? YES OR NO Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,09:34) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,01:09) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,04:07) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,18:27) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,13:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
This means that Jesus is mere flesh only.Yet Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him.
Did Jesus have a soul or is he a soul? Or is he less than us for not having one. Just a flesh being.
I personally do not go along with the view that anyone is just a body of flesh that comes alive when God's spirit enters.
Why? Because we have a spirit.
God's Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. We are more than mere flesh and so was Jesus.
And is the poetic form you speak of a lie?
T8,Jesus gave the Word the whole human being but I chose to emphasize the flesh. As the Heir Jesus came to fill the same role as the Word has previously filled.
The poetic form I am writing of is using words in an abstract manner to reveal ideas, relationships, and other things. The truth is in the intend and the interpretation.
No, I can't go along with any of this. Hebrews 1 God spoke to humanity through the prophets, and in divers manners, has in these last days spoken to humanity through His Firstborn Son. The Word or logos are the declaration of the thoughts as expressed in His Words or actions.We need to stick to the scriptures in seeking for our understanding.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,I assume you mean my words.
I am not seeing where what you quote disagree as God who spoke through the Word in various manners, has in these last days spoke through his Heir, even though he still used prophets, angels, and diverse means. Those prophets, and angels, and diverse means are now under Jesus' authority, who serves in the role the Word.
Yes, Kerwin, I meant your words. The scriptures state that God spoke through those that you mention, and Jesus has been given all power over heaven and earth and he watches over God's Word to perform it, but he is not the source of the Word.The Word is not “the firstborn”, but “the firstborn” is the Only Begotten Son of God through whom God has spoken to humanity, and through whom God's character has been revealed.
“For the head of Christ is God, the head of man is Christ, and the head of woman is man”.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (terraricca @ Sep. 04 2013,21:40) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,07:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
KLk 10:25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
Lk 10:26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”is this how you read the bible kerwin
i mean with your explanation if you are true WHY YOU DO NOT DO LIKE THE MAN THAT ANSWER JESUS AND “QUOTE THE SCRIPTURES AS IT WAS WRITTEN , OR DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT
?
T,Your words appear to be an accusation but you have previously written that is not your intention so I will look beyond what is written and search for what is true.
Human words are by nature fluid and open to interpretation and Scripture are written with these words so a man is required to look beyond the seeming and find what is true. For example the seeming of John 6:56 is that Jesus is advocating cannibalism but the truth is something else.
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,05:02) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,09:34) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,01:09) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,04:07) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,18:27) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,13:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
This means that Jesus is mere flesh only.Yet Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him.
Did Jesus have a soul or is he a soul? Or is he less than us for not having one. Just a flesh being.
I personally do not go along with the view that anyone is just a body of flesh that comes alive when God's spirit enters.
Why? Because we have a spirit.
God's Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. We are more than mere flesh and so was Jesus.
And is the poetic form you speak of a lie?
T8,Jesus gave the Word the whole human being but I chose to emphasize the flesh. As the Heir Jesus came to fill the same role as the Word has previously filled.
The poetic form I am writing of is using words in an abstract manner to reveal ideas, relationships, and other things. The truth is in the intend and the interpretation.
No, I can't go along with any of this. Hebrews 1 God spoke to humanity through the prophets, and in divers manners, has in these last days spoken to humanity through His Firstborn Son. The Word or logos are the declaration of the thoughts as expressed in His Words or actions.We need to stick to the scriptures in seeking for our understanding.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,I assume you mean my words.
I am not seeing where what you quote disagree as God who spoke through the Word in various manners, has in these last days spoke through his Heir, even though he still used prophets, angels, and diverse means. Those prophets, and angels, and diverse means are now under Jesus' authority, who serves in the role the Word.
Yes, Kerwin, I meant your words. The scriptures state that God spoke through those that you mention, and Jesus has been given all power over heaven and earth and he watches over God's Word to perform it, but he is not the source of the Word.The Word is not “the firstborn”, but “the firstborn” is the Only Begotten Son of God through whom God has spoken to humanity, and through whom God's character has been revealed.
“For the head of Christ is God, the head of man is Christ, and the head of woman is man”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,I have not stated that Jesus is the source of the Word as God is still the source but Jesus' role is the same as that which the Word served previously.
According to Scripture God's spirit is the one that reveals the things of God and God revealed these things to Jesus. Jesus is subject to God's Word and God's Word is the device God chooses to use to reveal his things. Jesus is means by which God's word now comes by the prophets, angels, and other diverse means because God chose to make him king of all things in heaven and on earth.
The Word is God's firstborn is a statement of the relationship between God's own Word and God. The Word is related to God as a king's heir is related to that king. The Word had and still has that relationship with God even though Jesus, who unlike it is a person, now serves in the same role. They are not competitors.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,10:38) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,05:02) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,09:34) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,01:09) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,04:07) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,18:27) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,13:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
This means that Jesus is mere flesh only.Yet Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him.
Did Jesus have a soul or is he a soul? Or is he less than us for not having one. Just a flesh being.
I personally do not go along with the view that anyone is just a body of flesh that comes alive when God's spirit enters.
Why? Because we have a spirit.
God's Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. We are more than mere flesh and so was Jesus.
And is the poetic form you speak of a lie?
T8,Jesus gave the Word the whole human being but I chose to emphasize the flesh. As the Heir Jesus came to fill the same role as the Word has previously filled.
The poetic form I am writing of is using words in an abstract manner to reveal ideas, relationships, and other things. The truth is in the intend and the interpretation.
No, I can't go along with any of this. Hebrews 1 God spoke to humanity through the prophets, and in divers manners, has in these last days spoken to humanity through His Firstborn Son. The Word or logos are the declaration of the thoughts as expressed in His Words or actions.We need to stick to the scriptures in seeking for our understanding.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,I assume you mean my words.
I am not seeing where what you quote disagree as God who spoke through the Word in various manners, has in these last days spoke through his Heir, even though he still used prophets, angels, and diverse means. Those prophets, and angels, and diverse means are now under Jesus' authority, who serves in the role the Word.
Yes, Kerwin, I meant your words. The scriptures state that God spoke through those that you mention, and Jesus has been given all power over heaven and earth and he watches over God's Word to perform it, but he is not the source of the Word.The Word is not “the firstborn”, but “the firstborn” is the Only Begotten Son of God through whom God has spoken to humanity, and through whom God's character has been revealed.
“For the head of Christ is God, the head of man is Christ, and the head of woman is man”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,I have not stated that Jesus is the source of the Word as God is still the source but Jesus' role is the same as that which the Word served previously.
According to Scripture God's spirit is the one that reveals the things of God and God revealed these things to Jesus. Jesus is subject to God's Word and God's Word is the device God chooses to use to reveal his things. Jesus is means by which God's word now comes by the prophets, angels, and other diverse means because God chose to make him king of all things in heaven and on earth.
The Word is God's firstborn is a statement of the relationship between God's own Word and God. The Word is related to God as a king's heir is related to that king. The Word had and still has that relationship with God even though Jesus, who unlike it is a person, now serves in the same role. They are not competitors.
Hi Kerwin:The relationship is between the Father and the Son.
They are “one” spirit.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,06:48) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,10:38) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,05:02) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,09:34) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,01:09) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,04:07) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,18:27) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,13:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
This means that Jesus is mere flesh only.Yet Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him.
Did Jesus have a soul or is he a soul? Or is he less than us for not having one. Just a flesh being.
I personally do not go along with the view that anyone is just a body of flesh that comes alive when God's spirit enters.
Why? Because we have a spirit.
God's Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. We are more than mere flesh and so was Jesus.
And is the poetic form you speak of a lie?
T8,Jesus gave the Word the whole human being but I chose to emphasize the flesh. As the Heir Jesus came to fill the same role as the Word has previously filled.
The poetic form I am writing of is using words in an abstract manner to reveal ideas, relationships, and other things. The truth is in the intend and the interpretation.
No, I can't go along with any of this. Hebrews 1 God spoke to humanity through the prophets, and in divers manners, has in these last days spoken to humanity through His Firstborn Son. The Word or logos are the declaration of the thoughts as expressed in His Words or actions.We need to stick to the scriptures in seeking for our understanding.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,I assume you mean my words.
I am not seeing where what you quote disagree as God who spoke through the Word in various manners, has in these last days spoke through his Heir, even though he still used prophets, angels, and diverse means. Those prophets, and angels, and diverse means are now under Jesus' authority, who serves in the role the Word.
Yes, Kerwin, I meant your words. The scriptures state that God spoke through those that you mention, and Jesus has been given all power over heaven and earth and he watches over God's Word to perform it, but he is not the source of the Word.The Word is not “the firstborn”, but “the firstborn” is the Only Begotten Son of God through whom God has spoken to humanity, and through whom God's character has been revealed.
“For the head of Christ is God, the head of man is Christ, and the head of woman is man”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,I have not stated that Jesus is the source of the Word as God is still the source but Jesus' role is the same as that which the Word served previously.
According to Scripture God's spirit is the one that reveals the things of God and God revealed these things to Jesus. Jesus is subject to God's Word and God's Word is the device God chooses to use to reveal his things. Jesus is means by which God's word now comes by the prophets, angels, and other diverse means because God chose to make him king of all things in heaven and on earth.
The Word is God's firstborn is a statement of the relationship between God's own Word and God. The Word is related to God as a king's heir is related to that king. The Word had and still has that relationship with God even though Jesus, who unlike it is a person, now serves in the same role. They are not competitors.
Hi Kerwin:The relationship is between the Father and the Son.
They are “one” spirit.Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,Yes, and God's Word and God are one as he does as he says.
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 05 2013,09:59) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 05 2013,04:02) TO all……..Sense sin came by a 100% human being it had to be atoned for by a 100% human being. In order to Aline with the law of God nothing less or more then a pure human being could pay the debt. Jesus only as a pure human could qualified to pay it . He redeemed us, a complete human life for our human life , he could not have been a God because a God could not pay for it, because a GOD can't die, . Scripture says Sin entered in by MAN and BY MAN (Jesus Christ) it is atoned for. nothing else would fulfill the requirements of GOD'S Law. A Morphed preexistent being would not have meet the law requirements. Jesus only could only qualify as our KINSMEN REDEEMER by being a 100% pure human being, born the same way we are through a human mother . That is why it says he is the FIRST BORN OF “MANY” BRETHREN . Nowhere did Jesus ever SEPERATE HIMSELF from his human brothers and sisters flesh existence, even after he was resurrected he said he was flesh and bone. He is still flesh and bone and will return that way also. IMO Gene
NO MEN CAN SAVE ANOTHER ,NOR HIMSELFIsa 49:1 Listen to me, you islands;
hear this, you distant nations:
Before I was born the LORD called me;
from my birth he has made mention of my name.
Isa 49:2 He made my mouth like a sharpened sword,
in the shadow of his hand he hid me;
he made me into a polished arrow
and concealed me in his quiver.
Isa 49:3 He said to me, “You are my servant,
Israel, in whom I will display my splendor.”
Isa 49:4 But I said, “I have labored to no purpose;
I have spent my strength in vain and for nothing.
Yet what is due me is in the LORD'S hand,
and my reward is with my God.”“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth.”Isa 49:8 This is what the LORD says:
“In the time of my favor I will answer you,
and in the day of salvation I will help you;
I will keep you and will make you
to be a covenant for the people,
to restore the landPS 49:7 No man can by any means redeem his brother
Or give to God a ransom for him—SEE THIS “” BY ANY MEANS ” REDEEM HIS BROTHER OR GIVE RANSOM FOR HIM(SELF) “””
AGAIN “”” NO MAN “”” DO YOU READ THIS
? DO YOU SEE THIS ? DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS ?DO YOU BELIEVE THIS
? YES OR NO
Terricca….. Again you show your ignorance, you fail to realize when that scripture was written Jesus was not even born, and because all men have sinned to that point in time no man could be a ransom for HIM(self) or another, WHY ??, because ALL had sinned and as a result the eternal death sentence was on all men because of sin.It amazes me How you hunt for any thing that will destroy truth, even a simpleton knows that in order for a redemption act for our sins to be excepted by God, that Man had to be without sin. GOD'S Judgement was against any man who sinned and it was a eternal judgement .
It says it was by MAN sin entered into the world and by the MAN JESUS CHRIST we are atoned for, forgiven our sins. Jesus was the perfect MAN a PURE HUMAN BEING WITHOUT SIN , THE UNBLEMISHED LAMB OF GOD , sacrificed for our sins. He is our KINSMEN REDEEMER, He redeemed us from the eternal payment for our sins.
Even the example of the ancient Israelites showed this. Was the lambs used in their sacrifice any different then any other lamb , no they were not, they were all lambs, creatures of the same kind, but the ones used for the sacrifices had to be without blemish. Jesus the human lamb of God who was offered as a sacrifice for our sins he was a human being without sin ( blemish) .
If you don't even know that, you haven't even begin understanding scriptures, and your words lead me to even doubt you are converted now. IMO
Gene
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,10:38) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,05:02) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,09:34) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,01:09) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,04:07) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,18:27) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,13:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
This means that Jesus is mere flesh only.Yet Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him.
Did Jesus have a soul or is he a soul? Or is he less than us for not having one. Just a flesh being.
I personally do not go along with the view that anyone is just a body of flesh that comes alive when God's spirit enters.
Why? Because we have a spirit.
God's Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. We are more than mere flesh and so was Jesus.
And is the poetic form you speak of a lie?
T8,Jesus gave the Word the whole human being but I chose to emphasize the flesh. As the Heir Jesus came to fill the same role as the Word has previously filled.
The poetic form I am writing of is using words in an abstract manner to reveal ideas, relationships, and other things. The truth is in the intend and the interpretation.
No, I can't go along with any of this. Hebrews 1 God spoke to humanity through the prophets, and in divers manners, has in these last days spoken to humanity through His Firstborn Son. The Word or logos are the declaration of the thoughts as expressed in His Words or actions.We need to stick to the scriptures in seeking for our understanding.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,I assume you mean my words.
I am not seeing where what you quote disagree as God who spoke through the Word in various manners, has in these last days spoke through his Heir, even though he still used prophets, angels, and diverse means. Those prophets, and angels, and diverse means are now under Jesus' authority, who serves in the role the Word.
Yes, Kerwin, I meant your words. The scriptures state that God spoke through those that you mention, and Jesus has been given all power over heaven and earth and he watches over God's Word to perform it, but he is not the source of the Word.The Word is not “the firstborn”, but “the firstborn” is the Only Begotten Son of God through whom God has spoken to humanity, and through whom God's character has been revealed.
“For the head of Christ is God, the head of man is Christ, and the head of woman is man”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,I have not stated that Jesus is the source of the Word as God is still the source but Jesus' role is the same as that which the Word served previously.
According to Scripture God's spirit is the one that reveals the things of God and God revealed these things to Jesus. Jesus is subject to God's Word and God's Word is the device God chooses to use to reveal his things. Jesus is means by which God's word now comes by the prophets, angels, and other diverse means because God chose to make him king of all things in heaven and on earth.
The Word is God's firstborn is a statement of the relationship between God's own Word and God. The Word is related to God as a king's heir is related to that king. The Word had and still has that relationship with God even though Jesus, who unlike it is a person, now serves in the same role. They are not competitors.
Hi Kerwin:I disagree with the last paragraph, and I have already stated why.
If you have scripture to show that the Word is “the firstborn” and that “the Word is the relationship between the Father and the Son, please post it. Thanks.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,22:50) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,10:38) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,05:02) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,09:34) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,01:09) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,04:07) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,18:27) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,13:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
This means that Jesus is mere flesh only.Yet Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him.
Did Jesus have a soul or is he a soul? Or is he less than us for not having one. Just a flesh being.
I personally do not go along with the view that anyone is just a body of flesh that comes alive when God's spirit enters.
Why? Because we have a spirit.
God's Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. We are more than mere flesh and so was Jesus.
And is the poetic form you speak of a lie?
T8,Jesus gave the Word the whole human being but I chose to emphasize the flesh. As the Heir Jesus came to fill the same role as the Word has previously filled.
The poetic form I am writing of is using words in an abstract manner to reveal ideas, relationships, and other things. The truth is in the intend and the interpretation.
No, I can't go along with any of this. Hebrews 1 God spoke to humanity through the prophets, and in divers manners, has in these last days spoken to humanity through His Firstborn Son. The Word or logos are the declaration of the thoughts as expressed in His Words or actions.We need to stick to the scriptures in seeking for our understanding.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,I assume you mean my words.
I am not seeing where what you quote disagree as God who spoke through the Word in various manners, has in these last days spoke through his Heir, even though he still used prophets, angels, and diverse means. Those prophets, and angels, and diverse means are now under Jesus' authority, who serves in the role the Word.
Yes, Kerwin, I meant your words. The scriptures state that God spoke through those that you mention, and Jesus has been given all power over heaven and earth and he watches over God's Word to perform it, but he is not the source of the Word.The Word is not “the firstborn”, but “the firstborn” is the Only Begotten Son of God through whom God has spoken to humanity, and through whom God's character has been revealed.
“For the head of Christ is God, the head of man is Christ, and the head of woman is man”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,I have not stated that Jesus is the source of the Word as God is still the source but Jesus' role is the same as that which the Word served previously.
According to Scripture God's spirit is the one that reveals the things of God and God revealed these things to Jesus. Jesus is subject to God's Word and God's Word is the device God chooses to use to reveal his things. Jesus is means by which God's word now comes by the prophets, angels, and other diverse means because God chose to make him king of all things in heaven and on earth.
The Word is God's firstborn is a statement of the relationship between God's own Word and God. The Word is related to God as a king's heir is related to that king. The Word had and still has that relationship with God even though Jesus, who unlike it is a person, now serves in the same role. They are not competitors.
Hi Kerwin:I disagree with the last paragraph, and I have already stated why.
If you have scripture to show that the Word is “the firstborn” and that “the Word is the relationship between the Father and the Son, please post it. Thanks.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,It is about how language is used and the culture of the people who Scripture was directly written. I am pointing out the way certain Jews and Gentiles of the First Century spoke and wrote. It has been said that a teacher should be a Jew to a Jew and a Gentile to a Gentile and it seems reasonable the writers of Scripture did so.
In other words it is an issue of the historical and cultural context of Scripture not the literal words.
This is the way of men ,not the way of God,
If you would be right the Jews would have understood the scriptures but they did not,because it is with the heart that we have to understand it ,and in truth in us,
Falling to have those two components you have no knowledge in scriptures ,only in the grammar of the language, what amounts to nothing
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