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Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 08 2009,10:04) Hi TT,
Jesus did not offer these methodologies but spoke plainly.
Ought we not rather follow him?
Nick,
It was Seeking who brought up “methodology” Do you pay attention?Anyway, what about verse 10:
Quote He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not Does any non trinitarian here care to back up the charge that trinitarians base their theology on verse one alone?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ April 07 2009,14:56) Seeking,
The reason I brought up formal education is because one who has had a formal education would know of the methodologies of the various schools of thought in Christendom.
Act 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.1Co 3:18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.
Col 2:1-3 For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face, that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I say this in order that no one may delude you with plausible arguments.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,”
1Co 8:1 Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,
1Co 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
2Co 10:5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
Eph 1:16-17 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
Eph 3:14-19 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith–that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
[/I]1Jn 2:20 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge.
Seeking
Hi TT,
You should base you doctrines on what Jesus said.
If he did not mention a trinity then it seems unlikely to be true.
Once you know that God is the Father then you can maybe grasp the more difficult things.But getting muddled even about who God is suits only the purposes of satan.
Quote (thethinker @ April 07 2009,15:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 08 2009,10:04) Hi TT,
Jesus did not offer these methodologies but spoke plainly.
Ought we not rather follow him?
Nick,
It was Seeking who brought up “methodology” Do you pay attention?
I believe it was the methodologies YOU referred to that Nick was referencing –thinker…
Seeking,
The reason I brought up formal education is because one who has had a formal education would know of the methodologies of the various schools of thought in Christendom. Let's take you for instance. If you had a formal theological education you would have replied to Texas saying, “In all fairness the trinitarians do not base their theology on one verse. It has to do with the hermeneutic they employ” or something like that.Seeking
My opinion.
God created His son 'Jesus”, He was…”Gods creative original” (Rev.3:14) and also…”Who is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature” (Co.1:15). He (Jesus) was the first and only creation of God, ALL ELSE was created 'by Jesus', through the power of God… “for in Him (Jesus) is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him”, (Col.1:16) (notice “through Him”)At the “consummation” (the completion of creation) …24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.) (1Cor.15-24-28).To sum this up … nevertheless for us there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is, and we for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is, and we through Him. (1Cor.8:6)
Notice, “the Father, OUT OF WHOM ALL is”, then, “and one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH WHOM ALL is”.In my opinion, these scriptures plainly explain that there is only one God, the “Father”.
Blessings.
Quote (chosenone @ April 07 2009,17:44) My opinion.
God created His son 'Jesus”, He was…”Gods creative original” (Rev.3:14) and also…”Who is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature” (Co.1:15). He (Jesus) was the first and only creation of God, ALL ELSE was created 'by Jesus', through the power of God… “for in Him (Jesus) is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him”, (Col.1:16) (notice “through Him”)At the “consummation” (the completion of creation) …24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.) (1Cor.15-24-28).To sum this up … nevertheless for us there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is, and we for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is, and we through Him. (1Cor.8:6)
Notice, “the Father, OUT OF WHOM ALL is”, then, “and one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH WHOM ALL is”.In my opinion, these scriptures plainly explain that there is only one God, the “Father”.
Blessings.
Chosenone,Your post is also consistent with Jn.1:10 where
Joh 1:10 in the world he was, and the world through him was made, and the world did not know him:
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. (ESV)
JN 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. (NIV)
Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. (NAS)
Jn1:10 He came into the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him [did not know Him]. (AMP)
Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. (NKJV)
Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world had [its] being through him, and the world knew him not. (DARBY)
Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not. (ASV)
Jn 1:10 and the world was created through Him, (HOLMAN)
I do note that the KJV and Wycliffe choose to us “by him.”
Interestingly, the translators of the NKJV elected to make the change to “through.”Thayer Definition:
1) through
1a) of place
1a1) with
1a2) in
1b) of time
1b1) throughout
1b2) during
1c) of means
1c1) by
1c2) by the means of
2) through
2a) the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
2a1) by reason of
2a2) on account of
2a3) because of for this reason
2a4) therefore
2a5) on this accountStrong's Definition
A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional). In composition it retains the same general import: – after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) . . . fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general import.
The “channel through whom” by the power of God is a solid analogy.
Thanks for your post.
Blessings,
Seeking
Seeking ….what do they do with where In Issiah the LORD GOD said He (ALONE) and BY (HIMSELF) created everything , I see no Channel of going through anyone Here. I believe that the (ONLY) creator and healer of anything and everything and all things is truly only One GOD. Preexistences are simply watered down trinitarians their both, Just as confused as the other is. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Gene.
If God created all things through Christ, then God still created it. Jesus wasn't creating things along with God in that understanding.
Likewise can you say that you created your son or daughter if you had one? Of course not. Even though God creates us all, even then he still does his creating through the parents. So that alone is reason enough to see that God creates us alone, and yet without infringing on the fact that he uses like kind to produce after their own kind.
Can you see that?
Seeking, Thank you, I personally prefer the “Concordant Version” of scripture. Looking at how it was translated, the methods used, I feel it to be the most accurate of any translation. Just my opinion.
Blessings.
The only way a scripture is truly accurate is if it is translated by those moved by the Spirit of God. If you are not moved by the Spirit of God then who are you moved by and if you then how does one make errors in what is important to God?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 08 2009,13:36) Hi kW,
So we need the Spirit of God.
That is what Jesus said as He said God leads us to him.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 08 2009,15:23) Hi KW,
So deep reliance on logic is not a good choice when the Spirit wrote scripture.
Logic does not always discover what is true and the Spirit leads you to the truth. Still the Spirit is logical but that logic is based on what God desires and not what man desires.Hi KW,
As you rest in the Spirit God goes ahesd of you, is with you helping and comes after you making all things work together for good.Not logical but of peace and purpose, harmony and order.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 08 2009,16:32) Hi KW,
As you rest in the Spirit God goes ahesd of you, is with you helping and comes after you making all things work together for good.Not logical but of peace and purpose, harmony and order.
I do not believe you understand logic. The purpose of logic is to establish harmony and order. There is a saying that “line upon line, precept upon precept, that scripture supports itself”. That is logic. Are you saying scripture contradicts? It is true though that one's logic must be based on God's desires and on mans. Logic is a tool and can be used for both noble and ignoble purposes.Nick……..without LOGIC you are a zombie and know nothing. And maybe that the problem here you are not able to give logic to you posts and that causes confusions. IMO
love and peace………………………………………gene
Nick uses logic though sometimes it may be flawed. Sometimes my logic may also be flawed which is one reason I post. I just don't know if Nick understands the purpose of logic even though he uses it.
Still logic is a tool and can be used to search out the truth but one must believe the truth for it to do any good for them.
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