John 1 1-3

[Lightenup]

Ok good Mike, let's play a little game here and put up a few scriptures that mention Jesus in some way and put in 'a god' to see how that reads. Are you game?

For instance:
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son-'a god', that whosoever believed in Him-a god- should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

[Lightenup]

Mike,
another-

John 1:2
2 He was in the beginning with God.
NASU

'A god' was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
NASU

All things came into being through Him-a god, and apart from Him-a god nothing came into being that has come into being.

[Lightenup]

Mike,
Let's keep trying this…

John 1:4
4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
NASU
In Him-a god-was life, and the life was the Light of men.

Here we see that life was in 'a god' and that life that was in a god was the light of men.

John 1:10-13
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

He-a god-was in the world, and the world was made through Him-a god, and the world did not know Him-a god.

11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
He-a god came to His-a god's own, and those who were His-a god's own did not receive Him-a god.

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

But as many as received Him-a god, to them He-a god gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name-a god's name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 19 2010,21:47)

Mike, Let's keep trying this… John 1:4 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. NASU In Him-a god-was life, and the life was the Light of men. Here we see that life was in 'a god' and that life that was in a god was the light of men. John 1:10-13 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He-a god-was in the world, and the world was made through Him-a god, and the world did not know Him-a god. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. He-a god came to His-a god's own, and those who were His-a god's own did not receive Him-a god. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. But as many as received Him-a god, to them He-a god gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name-a god's name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Kathi

i but in here ,and i see WJ strategy air command;;

you are mixing ;appels,bananas,oranges,and 2×4 spruse lumber.

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Ok Mike,
Maybe you have stopped for the night.  
Here are some more verses where I am trying to follow your preferred definition of 'the word was a god':

John 1:14-18
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

And a god became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw a god's glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'”

John testified about the god and cried out, saying, This was the god of whom I said, this god who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for this god existed before me.

16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.
For of this god's fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.

17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through a god, Jesus Christ.

18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten god who is in the bosom of the Father, this begotten god has explained Him.

[Lightenup]

Hi Pierre,
I don't know how to play air command but I am seeing all that a god can do and think that He is a lot like a real God to be like this.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 19 2010,22:10)

Hi Pierre, I don't know how to play air command but I am seeing all that a god can do and think that He is a lot like a real God to be like this.

Kathi

yes but Christ never said he was God and if he acted like one it was like Moses did to Aaron his brother,and it was done trough God.

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
But Moses was never said to have existed in the beginning and to have caused all things into being and all before coming in the flesh. There is little comparison between the Son as 'god' and Moses as 'a god.' The Son did all through the power of God because He is the power of God, Moses was not.

For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

So if we say Christ is 'a god' then 'a god' is the power of the God and the wisdom of the God. Now if Christ were not one with God in a unique way as a part of God then that would be blasphemous to say and to bow down to.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 21 2010,11:41)

Pierre, But Moses was never said to have existed in the beginning and to have caused all things into being and all before coming in the flesh.  There is little comparison between the Son as 'god' and Moses as 'a god.'  The Son did all through the power of God because He is the power of God, Moses was not. For indeed Jews  ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,  24 but to those who are the  called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. So if we say Christ is 'a god' then 'a god' is the power of the God and the wisdom of the God.  Now if Christ were not one with God in a unique way as a part of God then that would be blasphemous to say and to bow down to.

Kathi

god =title,

son =familly connection

firstborn=a familly condition=means first in the familly

THE WORD= name

Moses= name

prophet= title,position,

god =title position

did this change God almighty,NO

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 21 2010,04:41)

For indeed Jews  ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,  24 but to those who are the  called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Hi Kathi,

I haven't yet read one scripture that isn't exactly how you say.  Jesus was and is a “mighty one”, or “god”.  He is NOT THE ALMIGHTY ONE though.  He is that One's Son.

The Son is LIKE the Father.  He is good LIKE his Father.  He is powerful LIKE his Father.  He is wise LIKE his Father.  But he is NOT the Father, and he tells us that the FATHER is the only One worthy of our worship.

And you do understand what Paul means by “the power and wisdom of God” don't you?

peace and love,
mike

[Lightenup]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 20 2010,12:53)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 21 2010,11:41) Pierre, But Moses was never said to have existed in the beginning and to have caused all things into being and all before coming in the flesh.  There is little comparison between the Son as 'god' and Moses as 'a god.'  The Son did all through the power of God because He is the power of God, Moses was not. For indeed Jews  ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,  24 but to those who are the  called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. So if we say Christ is 'a god' then 'a god' is the power of the God and the wisdom of the God.  Now if Christ were not one with God in a unique way as a part of God then that would be blasphemous to say and to bow down to. Kathi god =title, son =familly connection firstborn=a familly condition=means first in the familly THE WORD= name Moses= name prophet= title,position, god =title position did this change God almighty,NO Pierre

Pierre,
firstborn-a family condition=first in the family
god-type of being or title

firstborn in the family of deity-a deity being.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 20 2010,13:15)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 21 2010,04:41) For indeed Jews  ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,  24 but to those who are the  called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. Hi Kathi, I haven't yet read one scripture that isn't exactly how you say.  Jesus was and is a “mighty one”, or “god”.  He is NOT THE ALMIGHTY ONE though.  He is that One's Son. The Son is LIKE the Father.  He is good LIKE his Father.  He is powerful LIKE his Father.  He is wise LIKE his Father.  But he is NOT the Father, and he tells us that the FATHER is the only One worthy of our worship. And you do understand what Paul means by “the power and wisdom of God” don't you? peace and love, mike

Mike,
What Jesus told us about worshiping the Father did not include the word 'only.' He used the word “Lord God.”

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 21 2010,12:25)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 20 2010,12:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 21 2010,11:41) Pierre, But Moses was never said to have existed in the beginning and to have caused all things into being and all before coming in the flesh.  There is little comparison between the Son as 'god' and Moses as 'a god.'  The Son did all through the power of God because He is the power of God, Moses was not. For indeed Jews  ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,  24 but to those who are the  called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. So if we say Christ is 'a god' then 'a god' is the power of the God and the wisdom of the God.  Now if Christ were not one with God in a unique way as a part of God then that would be blasphemous to say and to bow down to. Kathi god =title, son =familly connection firstborn=a familly condition=means first in the familly THE WORD= name Moses= name prophet= title,position, god =title position did this change God almighty,NO Pierre Pierre, firstborn-a family condition=first in the family god-type of being or title firstborn in the family of deity-a deity being.

Kathi

ok,and what is the words of God tells us from deities??

who is the the deity the father?,and who is ,his son?

what are the rules set up by those deities??

scriptures please

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
I can't understand what you wrote, can you rewrite it please?

[terraricca]

Kathi

what is the words of God, tells us from the deities??who are they??

who is the deity that the father represent?,and who is ,his son?

what are the rules of law if any, set up, by those deities?description in the scriptures.

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 21 2010,05:30)

Mike, What Jesus told us about worshiping the Father did not include the word 'only.' He used the word “Lord God.”

And you do know what that means, don't you Kathi?

The Hebrew had the words YHVH God in the passage he quoted. The later scribes changed YHVH to “Adonai”. But the fragments of the very earliest LXX ms known actually has “YHVH” in Hebrew letters inserted within the Greek words in scriptures where the Hebrew texts had YHVH.

So we don't know that Jesus didn't actually speak the divine name of God when quoting scriptures. For all we know, he could have actually told Satan to worship only Yahweh, your God.

At any rate, it is clear that Jesus was quoting a scripture that DID say “YHVH”, and so the “Lord” did not mean Jesus, but referred to the divine name of our only Creator.

mike

[Proclaimer]

It is not wrong to worhip/honour anyone that deserves it.
It is wrong to worship/honour any but YHWH as the Almighty God.

Jesus is worshipped/honoured as the Son of God and the Lamb of God.

Even people will be said to worship/honour at the feet of some believers.

Behold, I give of the synagogue of Satan, of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

[Baker]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 21 2010,04:41)

Pierre, But Moses was never said to have existed in the beginning and to have caused all things into being and all before coming in the flesh.  There is little comparison between the Son as 'god' and Moses as 'a god.'  The Son did all through the power of God because He is the power of God, Moses was not. For indeed Jews  ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,  24 but to those who are the  called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. So if we say Christ is 'a god' then 'a god' is the power of the God and the wisdom of the God.  Now if Christ were not one with God in a unique way as a part of God then that would be blasphemous to say and to bow down to.

Jesus said, he can do nothing without the Father; did Moses part the see on his own? did Moses cause water to come out of the rock?
Both of them, Jesus and Moses, and countless other prophets, did things, but it was “ALWAYS” the power of God the Father behind every action they took.
“IN THE BEGINNING”; what does, IN THE BEGINNING mean?
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth; did heaven and earth always existed?
Jesus, speaking of the devil, John 8:44, “He was a murderer from the “beginning”; did God create a murderer?
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ; did the gospel always existed?
John 1:2 The “same” was in the “beginning” with God; should we ask, WHO is the “SAME”? or should we ask, WHAT is the “SAME”?
Jesus, speaking to the apostles said, John 15:27 …ye have been with me from the “beginning”.
Check out your Concordance and see how many more “beginnings” there are. Show me, which of these “beginnings”, ever meant anything else but “A BEGINNING”?
We are confused by the title “god”, god is not GOD's name, nor is it the name of any other god. All pagan god's had name, they were not just referred to as god. God simply means, a strong one; a great one, a mighty one; but none are the “Almighty One”, and that includes Jesus, the “Son” of God.

Georg

[Baker]

bump for Mark

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2010,12:00)

Kathi what is the words of God, tells us from the deities??who are they?? who is the  deity that the  father represent?,and who is ,his son? what are the rules of law if any, set up, by those deities?description  in the scriptures. Pierre

Hi Pierre,

                     (Matt.7:7 / 2Tm.2:13)

The clues to what you ask is found in Luke 12:51-52, Amos 3:7, and John 5:30.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Author]

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