Jesus temptation

[david]

God made adam and eve. They were humans. Everything that came after….

God, through his spirit, used Mary, to give birth to a human.

What is “total humanity”? If God cannot produce a total human, who can?

Quote

Terarrica……..Interesting John does not seem to agree with you,

Let's start at the beginning, then shall we:

JOHN 1:1
“In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God…”

Gene, if you are said to be “with” God, it is not assumed you are with him as a thought. It is not assumed God is thinking of you. It is assumed you are actually “with” him, as we commonly understand “with” thousands of times a day.
If Jesus was “with” God in the beginning, then he pre-existed his human birth when he “became flesh.”

John 1:14
“So the Word became flesh and resided among us.”

This statement also. If he was just born a human, obviously he resided among us. Duh. But because he lived in heaven for so long, it was quite remarkable that he became human and resided among us. The “resided among us” implies he resided somewhere else before he “became flesh.”

[kerwin]

David,

Where does John 1 state that Jesus was with God in the beginning?  It does not.  That is what you call an assumed doctrine.

We know the idea of the gospel was with God with the beginning because we are told elsewhere that such is the case, Titus 1:13 and 2 Timothy 1:9.

We also know this mystery was revealed with the conception of Jesus though I would state the full revelation did not occur until the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost so long ago, Romans 16:25, Ephesians 1:9, Colossians 1:26, and others.

God's ideas are expressed with his Words and to say his Words are separate from him is absurd.   So God's words exist and they are in fact with God.  Sometimes he chooses to keep those words hidden and reveal when and if he chooses.  I am overjoyed that he chose to reveal the mystery of the gospel for all to see 2000 plus years ago.

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 12 2010,15:49)

Terarrica……..Interesting John does not seem to agree with you, He say denying Jesus Humanity, of Him being of the Flesh is the Spirit (intellect) of the Antichrist.  You by denying that, by being a Preexistences and are believing in that Spirit of Antichrist.  Trinitarians and Preexistences are one and the same, both deny Jesus' total HUMANITY, giving him preexisting powers he never had, and distorts GOD'S Work as well as Jesus' work on earth as a pure human being. IMO peace and love……………..gene

gene

it is not the accepted knowledge that Christ came in the flesh that i referring to,but your refusal to recognize the preexistence of Christ with the father that is my cause of intervention.

[terraricca]

Quote (david @ April 12 2010,17:08)

God made adam and eve.  They were humans.  Everything that came after…. God, through his spirit, used Mary, to give birth to a human. What is “total humanity”?  If God cannot produce a total human, who can? Quote Terarrica……..Interesting John does not seem to agree with you, Let's start at the beginning, then shall we: JOHN 1:1 “In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God…” Gene, if you are said to be “with” God, it is not assumed you are with him as a thought.  It is not assumed God is thinking of you.  It is assumed you are actually “with” him, as we commonly understand “with” thousands of times a day. If Jesus was “with” God in the beginning, then he pre-existed his human birth when he “became flesh.” John 1:14 “So the Word became flesh and resided among us.” This statement also.  If he was just born a human, obviously he resided among us.  Duh.  But because he lived in heaven for so long, it was quite remarkable that he became human and resided among us.  The “resided among us” implies he resided somewhere else before he “became flesh.”

David

you quoting me i do not understand why??

Quote

Terarrica……..Interesting John does not seem to agree with you,

Let's start at the beginning, then shall we:

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ April 12 2010,23:40)

David, Where does John 1 state that Jesus was with God in the beginning?  It does not.  That is what you call an assumed doctrine. We know the idea of the gospel was with God with the beginning because we are told elsewhere that such is the case, Titus 1:13 and 2 Timothy 1:9. We also know this mystery was revealed with the conception of Jesus though I would state the full revelation did not occur until the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost so long ago, Romans 16:25, Ephesians 1:9, Colossians 1:26, and others. God's ideas are expressed with his Words and to say his Words are separate from him is absurd.   So God's words exist and they are in fact with God.  Sometimes he chooses to keep those words hidden and reveal when and if he chooses.  I am overjoyed that he chose to reveal the mystery of the gospel for all to see 2000 plus years ago.

Kerwin ……..you have it exactly right. What David does as do trinitarians and preexistences do , is to transpose the word (WORD) into a separate Being other than GOD himself. JW'S do this and then say Jesus was Micheal the arch angle of GOD. They fail to simply realize If JOHN wanted to say Jesus He would have simply wrote Jesus there. If you were to ask him is his words and he the same he most likely would say, yes they were one and the same . But when John writes that they simply can not believe GOD and HIS WORDS are ONE and The SAME, the Same as OUR word are one and the same as we are. So they Just simply force the Text to meet their dogmas and false teachings. IMO

peace and love to you and yours brother…………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 13 2010,03:13)

Quote (kerwin @ April 12 2010,23:40) David, Where does John 1 state that Jesus was with God in the beginning?  It does not.  That is what you call an assumed doctrine. We know the idea of the gospel was with God with the beginning because we are told elsewhere that such is the case, Titus 1:13 and 2 Timothy 1:9. We also know this mystery was revealed with the conception of Jesus though I would state the full revelation did not occur until the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost so long ago, Romans 16:25, Ephesians 1:9, Colossians 1:26, and others. God's ideas are expressed with his Words and to say his Words are separate from him is absurd.   So God's words exist and they are in fact with God.  Sometimes he chooses to keep those words hidden and reveal when and if he chooses.  I am overjoyed that he chose to reveal the mystery of the gospel for all to see 2000 plus years ago. Kerwin ……..you have it exactly right. What David does as do trinitarians and preexistences do , is to transpose the word (WORD) into a separate Being other than GOD himself. JW'S do this and then say Jesus was Micheal the arch angle of GOD. They fail to simply realize If JOHN wanted to say Jesus He would have simply wrote Jesus there. If you were to ask him is his words and he the same he most likely would say, yes they were one and the same . But when John writes that they simply can not believe GOD and HIS WORDS are ONE and The SAME, the Same as OUR word are one and the same as we are. So they Just simply force the Text to meet their dogmas and false teachings.  IMO peace and love to you and yours brother…………..gene

gene

you do not know what you are talking about ,you are a self oriented evangelist,trying to make people believe what is not in ScriptureS.

[kerwin]

Since Gene was agreeing with my post I have point out that I quite simply interpretated John 1 literally and then backed it up with other scriptures that stated the same thing. I believe you on the other hand prefer a more figurative interpretation that supports your personal beliefs.

Have you yet found a scripture that explicitly and literally states Jesus was a being with no physical being before he was began to be formed in Mary? What about after he died and was resurected?

I certainly have not.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 13 2010,16:08)

Since Gene was agreeing with my post I have point out that I quite simply interpretated John 1 literally and then backed it up with other scriptures that stated the same thing.   I believe you on the other hand prefer a more figurative interpretation that supports your personal beliefs. Have you yet found a scripture that explicitly and literally states Jesus was a being with no physical being before he was began to be formed in Mary?  What about after he died and was resurected? I certainly have not.

KW

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men

to me God is spirit ,the word is spirit but different,
Jn1-3 all was created though him was that before he became Jesus or after?? before

Jn;4 that life was the light of men ;here it says that he became the light of men,Jesus says he is the light.

Jn 17:24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Jn 17:18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.

Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
Jn 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
Jn 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Jn 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.
Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Rev 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

it is trough understanding that the truth of God is known with the spirit of Christ in Gods word.

if everything would be in black and white there would no need for Gods spirit of truth.

[JustAskin]

Hi all,

Can I just ask these questions:

What did the child, Jesus, mean when he said to Mary, his mother and Joseph, “Why do you seek me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father's business?”

The child, Jesus, knew of His Father, YHVH God, and for what 'business' He was born man to 'be about'.

The child, Jesus, knew YHVH God as His 'Father' (very embarassing for Mary, and devasrating for Joseph, even though they were told!
Jesus says we can be forgiven for sinning against Him, so I ask His forgiveness before asking, 'Was He just a tad too eager? Was it just a little disrespectful causing then such anxiety? Why not tell them where He was going? Would they have stopped Him? Why not ask them to take Him to the Temple and wait for Him?…It's all one question, not many!)

The child, Jesus, knew Himself as the 'Son', not of Joseph (by adoption) but of YHVH God. At what point in time did Jesus become the 'Son' of the Father?
(Is it not at His birth?)

I put it to you this way:

When did Adam become the 'Son of [YHVH] God'?
Was it not when he was created, supernaturally, by YHVH God, who formed him from the dust of the earth and put His Holy Spirit in him? (and he became a living soul)

Then, was not Jesus also created supernaturally when YHVH God formed him from the woman's seed ('the dust', the flesh) and put His Holy Spirit in him, inside the womb?

How much more should I write?

All who are born of YHVH God are 'Sons of God'.
All who have the Holy Spirit, are 'Sons of God'

All who abide in the ways of YHVH God through the belief in Christ and His testimony concerning YHVH God, will become adopted 'Sons of God' through Christ.

Now then, Adam, son of God, sinned and God removed his Holy Spirit from him and became subject to death in the flesh.

Adam, the first, the senior earthly son of God was displaced by the second 'Adam', the second earthly son of YHVH God, namely, Jesus, the Christ.

Jesus was not first, but Adam was first, senior by birth, the inheritor of God's reward.

Jesus is now, therefore 'Adopted' as 'first Son' of God, meaning 'Senior in rank' superceding his his fallen brother.

This is known as being 'Begotton'.

Hence, Jesus is said to be the 'Begotten Son of God' (there is whole topic about this so I spare the details here)

Did Jesus pre-Exist his birth on earth? Clearly so but as a 'perfect Servant' of YHVH' God, a heavenly son filled with Holy Spirit and dutifully and wondrously committing Himself to every word of God, yeah, He epitomises the 'Word of God', even 'personifies' it: Jesus IS the Word of God, Amen.

[kerwin]

Terraricca wrote:

Quote

to me God is spirit ,the word is spirit but different,

That may be true but this is what a Greek Lexicon states about the meaning of “logos” which is the Greek Word translated “Word”. I disregard the third definition which is the interpretation held by the writer of the Lexicon and obviously not a Greek definition. That interpretation may be similar to you own and thus I would like you to note the word “denotes” which means” logos” serves as a symbol which means it is a figurative interpretation.

I am assuming you are agreeing with me and telling me why you believe that a figurative interpretation of John 1 is the correct interpretation and not a literal one.

Terraricca wrote:

Quote

Jn1-3 all was created though him was that before he became Jesus or after?? before

And you think Scripture does not state the everything was created through the word of God, 2 Peter 3:5?

I do not think that you disagree with me that on this one just like I doubt you are in disagreement with the teaching that God’s “a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea” was with God and was God in the beginning.

Terraricca wrote:

Quote

Jn 17:18 as you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.

So according to your beliefs the 12 apostles, though Judas was later lost and fell from grace, were also sent from heaven into the world since this is the comparison Jesus is making in John 17:18.

In verse 16 Jesus does state the 11, reduced by Judas’ loss, are not of this world even as he Jesus is not of this world. What do you believe he spoke of there?

Terraricca wrote:

Quote

John 17:2 Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.

How is Jesus petitioning God to glorify him?

Isn’t he speaking of his crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension to heaven in order to sit at the right hand of God in heaven? These are all part of the message of salvation that has been revealed to us in these last days and which God has known of from the beginning of creation.

Terraricca wrote:

Quote

if everything would be in black and white there would no need for Gods spirit of truth.

You may be correct though I am almost convinced that some and perhaps most people would still seek to justify their own actions by using twisting scripture to support them as well as looking for ways around what God states. Our goal is to avoid doing those awful things.

[karmarie]

T, Hi.

I just read you opening posts to this thread about Jesus being tempted.

I remember reading once that “Satan” watches and listens to us to see what 'winds us up' or what tempts us. What we appear to desire. An expert at body language.

Always be onto it, never give the opportunity for anger sadness or temptation which cant be controlled to creep in. Take everything to God. We wont be tested beyond what we can bear

(1 Corinthians 10:13)  
“..No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.”

Remember With Cain…The LORD said, “Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen?  If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.”

Study and learn the commandments of God and meditate on them often I think.

Saying the 'Our Father' can help us when we need it too.
Im tired so I hope this makes sense.

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin……….I also take John 1:1 as a literial interpretation it fits perfectly that way, GOD created everything through His (OWN) WORD, not another entity which later became morphed into the man Jesus. These people who preach and teach this have no Specific Scriptures to back them up , But we have where GOD said HE (ALONE) and BY HIMSELF created every thing in existence. So they must force the text to meet their false teachings. MYSTERY RELIGION IS EVERYWHERE, IMO

peace and love……………..gene

[kerwin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 13 2010,22:22)

Kerwin……….I also take John 1:1 as a literial interpretation it fits perfectly that way, GOD created everything through His (OWN) WORD, not another entity which later became morphed into the man Jesus. These people who preach and teach this have no Specific Scriptures to back them up , But we have where GOD said HE (ALONE) and BY HIMSELF created every thing in existence. So they must force the text to meet their false teachings.  MYSTERY RELIGION IS EVERYWHERE, IMO peace and love……………..gene

Here is Genesis 1:1 which states:

Genesis 1:1(NIV) reads:

Quote

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

I do not see Jesus mentioned anywhere in that verse.  I believe God could have commanded his Jesus and his angels to create the heavens and the earth and this scripture would read the same.  The only indication we have that could have occurred are the words “Let us”.

Genesis 1:26(NIV) reads:

Quote

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth,  and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

That is vague wording that is open to interpretation though it only truthfully means what God intends it to mean.

Several versus in Genesis 1 go 'Then God said, “….” And it was so' and as such we know it was by God's word the heaven and earth were created even if others did as he commanded.

As for Jesus' so called preexistence authority does scripture not state that Jesus is to sit on David's seat.  If it is Jesus' throne first then David would have had no right to sit on it but would only have the right to serve as a regent at most.  It is only because David's ended his reigns, as it did many of his descendants that in their time also sat on it, that Jesus the promised descendant has a vacant throne to sit on.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 13 2010,21:08)

Terraricca wrote: Quote to me God is spirit ,the word is spirit but different, That may be true but this is what a Greek Lexicon states about the meaning of “logos” which is the Greek Word translated “Word”.   I disregard the third definition which is the interpretation held by the writer of the Lexicon and obviously not a Greek definition.  That interpretation may be similar to you own and thus I would like you to note the word “denotes” which means” logos” serves as a symbol which means it is a figurative interpretation. I am assuming you are agreeing with me and telling me why you believe that a figurative interpretation of John 1 is the correct interpretation and not a literal one. Terraricca wrote: Quote Jn1-3 all was created though him was that before he became Jesus or after??  before And you think Scripture does not state the everything was created through the word of God, 2 Peter 3:5? (I do not think that you disagree with me that on this one just like I doubt you are in disagreement with the teaching that God’s “a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea” was with God and was God in the beginning.) Terraricca wrote: Quote Jn 17:18 as you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. So according to your beliefs the 12 apostles, though Judas was later lost and fell from grace, were also sent from heaven into the world since this is the comparison Jesus is making in John 17:18.   (In verse 16 Jesus does state the 11, reduced by Judas’ loss, are not of this world even as he Jesus is not of this world. What do you believe he spoke of there? Terraricca wrote: Quote How is Jesus petitioning God to glorify him? Isn’t he speaking of his crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension to heaven in order to sit at the right hand of God in heaven?  These are all part of the message of salvation that has been revealed to us in these last days and which God has known of from the beginning of creation. Terraricca wrote: if everything would be in black and white there would no need for Gods spirit of truth. You may be correct though I am almost convinced that some and perhaps most people would still seek to justify their own actions by using twisting scripture to support them as well as looking for ways around what God states. Our goal is to avoid doing those awful things.

KW
you say;
I do not think that you disagree with me that on this one just like I doubt you are in disagreement with the teaching that God’s “a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea” was with God and was God in the beginning.)

so we can say that THE WORD did not exist prior to his beguining,but prior to is beguining he was God because he did not exist so he was not separated or begotten from God then.

God is spirit and can not be seen,but the WORD who came from him could see him,he was part God and part something else(because he his not equale to God)this is Jesus constant reminder to the people that he came from God.and the spirit of the father was always with him,
Jesus also said no man as seen God only the son as seen him,in this way this is also true.

In verse 16 Jesus does state the 11, reduced by Judas’ loss, are not of this world even as he Jesus is not of this world. What do you believe he spoke of there?

wen Jesus said those word ,he talked about him not being part of this world,in both ways being from above and being no part with what is taking place in this world,as for his apostles
they are also no more part of this world because of their acceptance of the son of God and now belong to the kingdom of God,what is not part of this world.

John 17:2 Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.

For the man the king delights to honor,
Est 6:8 have them bring a royal robe the king has worn and a horse the king has ridden, one with a royal crest placed on its head.
Est 6:9 Then let the robe and horse be entrusted to one of the king’s most noble princes. Let them robe the man the king delights to honor, and lead him on the horse through the city streets, proclaiming before him, ‘This is what is done for the man the king delights to honor!’ ”

Mt 20:26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,
Mt 20:27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave—
Mt 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

in this verses Jesus explain that in Gods kingdom wen you are high in position it is because you are the most useful to the
many,We know that Christ as served the entire creation and so became the second in all creation.
someone can ask but Christ has already that Job being the WORD this is true ,but now he deserve it,this is why he says;

Jn 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.
Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

amen.

[terraricca]

Quote (karmarie @ April 13 2010,21:24)

T, Hi. I just read you opening posts to this thread about Jesus being tempted. I remember reading once that “Satan” watches and listens to us to see what 'winds us up' or what tempts us. What we appear to desire. An expert at body language. Always be onto it, never give the opportunity for anger sadness or temptation which cant be controlled to creep in. Take everything to God. We wont be tested beyond what we can bear (1 Corinthians 10:13)   “..No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.” Remember With Cain…The LORD said, “Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen?  If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.” Study and learn the commandments of God and meditate on them often I think. Saying the 'Our Father' can help us when we need it too. Im tired so I hope this makes sense.

Kar
try to read the bible with your heart

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