Jesus teaches an implied doctrine

Participant

Terraricca worte:

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Premises that you use those are truths well established,known factors,no thinking required

I use them as premises because they are true.

Terraricca worte:

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logic is used by GENE and by Edj trying to explain what is not in scripture or quoting bits and pieces of verses or using strange words to explain clear statements in the scriptures

In other words their premises are not true which would say they use flawed logic.

I do not support such logic that comes from either corruption or ignorance.

March 30, 2010 at 5:23 am#185362

Participant

Terricca wrote:

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to test if it comes from God, it as to be God ruler you use as measuring tape not yours(logic)men's rule.

You are decieved and decieving other because you are repeating what God has never stated. This statement I just quoted of your does not come from scriptue which means either you made it up yourself or were taught it by another and it was at one point made up by a man. I believe the later is the case.

March 30, 2010 at 5:28 am#185364

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2010,17:23)

Terricca wrote:

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to test if it comes from God, it as to be God ruler you use as measuring tape not yours(logic)men's rule.

were is it you got the information that the scriptures support “logic” of men??

March 30, 2010 at 5:42 am#185366

Participant

this is not logic;
1JN 2:21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth.

1JN 2:25 This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
1JN 2:26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
1JN 2:27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
1JN 2:28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.
1JN 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him

1JN 3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous

1JN 4:6 We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error

1JN 5:10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son

2PE 3:2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.

now this is logic;
2PE 3:3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
2PE 3:4 and saying, “ Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”

March 30, 2010 at 5:42 am#185367

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2010,12:28)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2010,17:23)

Terricca wrote:

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to test if it comes from God, it as to be God ruler you use as measuring tape not yours(logic)men's rule.

were is it you got the information that the scriptures support “logic” of men??

Since you apear to lable all logic wisdom of men no matter what scripture states I will point out that.

Jesus uses it, Paul uses it, Solomon uses it, etc.

When you choose to so mislable logic based on godly principles it causes me to believe you do not understand those principles. This is because if you understood you would know better.

Acts 17:2(NIV) reads:

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As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

March 30, 2010 at 5:51 am#185369

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2010,17:23)

Terricca wrote:

Quote

to test if it comes from God, it as to be God ruler you use as measuring tape not yours(logic)men's rule.

2PE 3:2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles

1JN 4:6 We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error

March 30, 2010 at 6:15 am#185370

Participant

Hi KW,
The wisdom of God is greater than your offerings.

March 30, 2010 at 6:37 am#185371

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2010,12:51)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2010,17:23)

Terricca wrote:

Quote

to test if it comes from God, it as to be God ruler you use as measuring tape not yours(logic)men's rule.

2PE 3:2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles

1JN 4:6 We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error

How do these scriptures support the idea that logic based on godlly principles is not a tool God supplies us with?

To me they do the opposite.

March 30, 2010 at 6:41 am#185372

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,13:15)

Hi KW,
The wisdom of God is greater than your offerings.

I have seen no evidence that you understand the wisdom of God and when I ask for some you refuse to give it.

Is that because your words are based on the teachings of men and not on the words that issue forth from the mouth of God?

Otherwise, “why are you so ashamed?”

Where is godly logic spoken against in scripture?

March 30, 2010 at 6:56 am#185373

Participant

Hi KW,
If you trusted in the wisdom of God you would not be developing your own ideas.
If you want to follow Jesus you really need to commit to his words, not yours.

March 30, 2010 at 7:32 am#185376

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,13:56)

Hi KW,
If you trusted in the wisdom of God you would not be developing your own ideas.
If you want to follow Jesus you really need to commit to his words, not yours.

Accusing me of doing what you choose to do instead of backing up your argument with evidence is dodging.

So stop dodging. I write that as you failed to provide evidence I asked for and thus you have convinced you have none.

Once more, “Where is godly logic spoken against in scripture?”

March 30, 2010 at 7:38 am#185377

Participant

Hi KW,
You seem to want to translate what is spiritual into worldly language.

But you cannot judge Scripture.
It is like analysing beautiful music in mathematical terms.

Just sit back and learn from it and leave it alone.

March 30, 2010 at 9:31 am#185387

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,14:38)

Hi KW,
You seem to want to translate what is spiritual into worldly language.

But you cannot judge Scripture.
It is like analysing beautiful music in mathematical terms.

Just sit back and learn from it and leave it alone.

Once again, “Where is godly logic spoken against in scripture?”

Are you without a voice that you can answer?

Please show me that have knowledge of the spirit of righteousness and not of the spirit of deception!

If you cannot find it then “why are you saying what God does not say?”

In case you do not realize it the bible version you read is written in the English language which it was translated into.

I am assuming you call the English language a worldly language though I merely look it as a tool that can be used to express spiritual truths.

March 30, 2010 at 4:01 pm#185405

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,19:38)

Hi KW,
You seem to want to translate what is spiritual into worldly language.

But you cannot judge Scripture.
It is like analysing beautiful music in mathematical terms.

Just sit back and learn from it and leave it alone.

Nick……….Do you realize how foolish this post is. God did not give us minds to not use them. Quoting Scripture means nothing if you can't understand what it is saying. Kerwin is not wrong using his God given mind along with God's Spirit of truth to understand his words, He is seeking and asking and Knocking for truth and Jesus plainly said unto Him who Has more shall be given.

On the one hand you say follow Scripture and on the other you say don't try to see the logic and understand it, because that makes you of the World or using the wisdom of the world, Pure Garbage, we should all strive to understand Gods words and can with his spirit of truth guiding us. WE ALL NEED TO (GROW) IN GRACE AND KNOWLEDGE, as scripture says. IMO

March 30, 2010 at 5:07 pm#185415

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2010,18:41)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,13:15)

Hi KW,
The wisdom of God is greater than your offerings.

I have seen no evidence that you understand the wisdom of God and when I ask for some you refuse to give it.

Is that because your words are based on the teachings of men and not on the words that issue forth from the mouth of God?

Otherwise, “why are you so ashamed?”

Where is godly logic spoken against in scripture?

i have seen no evidence as to using men logic in the understanding of Gods word,

if you do not have knowledge how can you have any logic in anything is said in the scriptures,
you rely on your logic,true Christians and true worshipers rely on the spirit of God and Christ not there own so called logic.

March 30, 2010 at 5:16 pm#185416

Participant

how is it that the spirit of men can understand the spirit of God ?

it is only possible if men go and place himself in to the hand of God,so that men spirit is in harmony with Gods spirit, the spirit of righteousness,because he is righteous,

2Pe 1:15 And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.
2Pe 1:16 We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ

2Pe 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

no logic there;

March 30, 2010 at 5:20 pm#185417

Participant

there is no such thing as godly logic; if you believe and have prove of that show me,

March 30, 2010 at 5:59 pm#185426

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2010,21:31)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,14:38)

Hi KW,
You seem to want to translate what is spiritual into worldly language.

But you cannot judge Scripture.
It is like analysing beautiful music in mathematical terms.

Just sit back and learn from it and leave it alone.

Once again, “Where is godly logic spoken against in scripture?”

Are you without a voice that you can answer?

Please show me that have knowledge of the spirit of righteousness and not of the spirit of deception!

If you cannot find it then “why are you saying what God does not say?”

In case you do not realize it the bible version you read is written in the English language which it was translated into.

I am assuming you call the English language a worldly language though I merely look it as a tool that can be used to express spiritual truths.

Hi KW,
Your new teachings derive from your adaptation of the language of God into that of your own ideation. You must be more careful with the precious spiritual food given to us.

You lose truth when you do this and become one who speaks with the voice of a stranger.

March 30, 2010 at 9:39 pm#185454

Participant

Terraricca wrote:

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I have seen no evidence as to using men logic in the understanding of Gods word

Is the English language men’s language? I ask because it is used to express God’s word as are many other language. What you call men’s logic is not men’s but rather it is a gift that a human being may either choose to misuse or use correctly just like math or any other tool The Lord choose to give us.

1 Corinthians 2:6(NIV) reads:

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We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.

And

Isaiah 11:2(NIV) reads:

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And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

I am using logic to mean “convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness” which is consistent with another of its definition which is “the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.”

I am using wisdom to mean “the quality or state of being wise; knowledge of what is true or right coupled with just judgment as to action; sagacity, discernment, or insight.” though it can also be used to mean “ scholarly knowledge or learning”. I do not believe that makes a difference in this case.

My source for these definitions is dictionary.reference.com.

Terraricca wrote:

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you rely on your logic, true Christians and true worshipers rely on the spirit of God and Christ not there own so called logic.[/quote[

This shows that you are ignorant of both logic and the spirit of God as they are not in conflict. The spirit of God is in conflict with the spirit of mankind and the desires of that spirit. Logic is a structured method to discover what is known but hidden using that which is already in plain sight. When the spirit of God guides you through that process then the conclusion will be in step with God’s Word.

Terraricca wrote:

how is it that the spirit of men can understand the spirit of God ?

I did not claim that.

Terraricca wrote:

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no logic there;

Logic is used to make an argument and not to testify what one witnessed so it does not even apply to 2 Peter 1:15-16.

On the other hand 2 Peter 1:20-21 is a logical statement even if you do not understand the argument. The prophets are honest witnesses. The prophets say they spoke from God as they are carried along by the Holy Spirit. Therefore the prophets “spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”. Since the conclusion is true it also means the opposite is not true so we know that “no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation”.

March 30, 2010 at 10:30 pm#185467