Jesus' Spiritual body is flesh and bone

[NickHassan]

hi KW,
Does your logic rule over the verses shown?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2012,23:27)

Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2012,11:41) Quote (kerwin @ April 16 2012,22:51) Pierre, It is written: Romans 8:20 King James Version (KJV) 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, and Romans 8:21 King James Version (KJV) 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. What part of God's creation man corrupts in the present age that will be freed in the coming age and was at one time not subject to vanity?  Tell me if you can. K all you show me there is nothing in those scriptures that talk about a body of flesh and blood, you just identify some off the reasons why we could not come to God ,because our corrupted spirit totally oriented to the flesh desires Pierre, It is speaking of the redemption of creation; of which we including our bodies are part; even as it is written: Romans 8 New International Version (NIV) 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. It is clear to see believers wait both for their adoption to sonship and the redemption of their bodies.

K

So all of God creation will be renewed Like universes,angels ,all

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 17 2012,11:37)

hi KW, Does your logic rule over the verses shown?

Nick,

Is God irrational?

If the answer is no; then he is in agreement with logical reasoning that is based on the principles of the Holy Spirit.

A human soul without flesh is naked; a naked soul is dead; a dead soul is a ghost; a departed spirit.

These are some Scriptures that speak of ghosts:

Psalm 88:10
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

10 Will You perform wonders for the dead?
Will the [a]departed spirits rise and praise You?
                        Selah.
Footnotes:

a)    Psalm 88:10 Or ghosts, shades

Job 26:5
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

5 “The [a]departed spirits tremble
Under the waters and their inhabitants.
Footnotes:

a)    Job 26:5 Or shades; Heb Rephaim

Isaiah 26:14
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

14 The dead will not live, the [a]departed spirits will not rise;
Therefore You have punished and destroyed them,
And You have wiped out all remembrance of them.
Footnotes:

a)    Isaiah 26:14 Or shades

Isaiah 26:19

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

19 Your dead will live;
[a]Their corpses will rise.
You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy,
For your dew is as the dew of the dawn,
And the earth will [c]give birth to the [d]departed spirits.
Footnotes:

a)    Isaiah 26:19 So with some ancient versions; Heb My
b)    Isaiah 26:19 Lit lights
c)    Isaiah 26:19 Lit cause to fall
d)    Isaiah 26:19 Or shades

[NickHassan]

Hi KW
You say
“A human soul without flesh is naked; a naked soul is dead; a dead soul is a ghost; a departed spirit.”
Where is a dead naked soul shown?

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 17 2012,12:20)

Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2012,23:27) Pierre, It is speaking of the redemption of creation; of which we including our bodies are part; even as it is written: Romans 8 New International Version (NIV) 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. It is clear to see believers wait both for their adoption to sonship and the redemption of their bodies. K So all of God creation will be renewed Like universes,angels ,all

terraricca.

It does state “whole creation” and we are taught there will be new heavens as well as a new earth.  We are also taught:

Ephesians 6:12
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

12 For our struggle is not against [a]flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Footnotes:

a)    Ephesians 6:12 Lit blood and flesh

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
You say
“then he is in agreement with logical reasoning that is based on the principles of the Holy Spirit”

Best to find what He teaches rather than hoping He agrees with our varieties of human wisdom

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,04:43)

Hi KW You say “A human soul without flesh is naked; a naked soul is dead; a dead soul is a ghost; a departed spirit.” Where is a dead naked soul shown?

Nick,

I pointed to several scriptures where a soul without a body is called a ghost; departed spirit; shade.

Here are a few verses where it is called a soul.

Psalm 16:10

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

10 For You will not abandon my soul to [a]Sheol;
Nor will You allow Your [c]Holy One to [d]undergo decay.

Footnotes:

a)    Psalm 16:10 I.e. the nether world
b)    Psalm 16:10 Lit give
c)    Psalm 16:10 Or godly one
d)    Psalm 16:10 Or see corruption or the pit

Psalm 30:3

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

3 O LORD, You have brought up my soul from [a]Sheol;
You have kept me alive, that I would not go down to the pit.

Footnotes:

a)    Psalm 30:3 I.e. the nether world
b)    Psalm 30:3 Some mss read from among those who go down

Psalm 86:13
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

13 For Your lovingkindness toward me is great,
And You have delivered my soul from the [a]depths of Sheol.

Footnotes:

a)    Psalm 86:13 Lit lowest Sheol
b)    Psalm 86:13 I.e. the nether world

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Yes I agree

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,05:02)

Hi KW, You say “then he is in agreement with logical reasoning that is based on the principles of the Holy Spirit” Best to find what He teaches rather than hoping He agrees with our varieties of human wisdom

Nick,

Jesus came as a human being and used logical reasoning to interpret Scripture in order to demonstrate to the Sadducees there is a resurrection of the dead.

Was he using human wisdom or the wisdom of God?

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
You think it was his natural mind and not the work of the Spirit?
Why glorify man?

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,05:22)

Hi KW, You think it was his natural mind and not the work of the Spirit? Why glorify man?

Nick,

I know that despite appearances; God was using logical reasoning through him.  Those that heard him; after the ways of the flesh,  heard only a human being reasoning.

God uses human vessels to reason with men.

We are to test the spirit of the reasoning; not condemn it for being reasoning.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Your admiration for the human mind knows no bounds.
But it is all vanity

[mikeboll64]

You are right, Kerwin. God didn't create us with logic and reasoning ability just for us to squander it. Jesus supports this thought here:

2 He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ 3 and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.

Was Jesus condemning the Pharisees for using their God-given logic and understanding to interpret the appearance of the sky? Or was he condemning them for NOT being able to use that same logic and understanding to interpret the signs of the times?

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,06:04)

Hi KW, Your admiration for the human mind knows no bounds. But it is all vanity

Nick,

You are blinding yourself to the works of God because of your blanket condemnation of logical reasoning.

A human being with a godly mind looks like a human being with a human mind.  The human mind it made godly when it walks according to the spirit of God.  

In condemning both as the wisdom of man; you condemn the works of God.  It is wiser to test whether the spirit of the wisdom is either from God or from the evil one; and not condemn it because of the choice of vessel.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2012,06:15)

You are right, Kerwin.  God didn't create us with logic and reasoning ability just for us to squander it.  Jesus supports this thought here: 2 He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ 3 and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. Was Jesus condemning the Pharisees for using their God-given logic and understanding to interpret the appearance of the sky?  Or was he condemning them for NOT being able to use that same logic and understanding to interpret the signs of the times?

Mike;

Excellent use of Scripture to make a powerful point.

[NickHassan]

Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2012,12:09)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,06:04) Hi KW, Your admiration for the human mind knows no bounds. But it is all vanity Nick, You are blinding yourself to the works of God because of your blanket condemnation of logical reasoning. A human being with a godly mind looks like a human being with a human mind.  The human mind it made godly when it walks according to the spirit of God.   In condemning both as the wisdom of man; you condemn the works of God.  It is wiser to test whether the spirit of the wisdom is either from God or from the evil one; and not condemn it because of the choice of vessel.

Hi KW,
Do show us where God admires human reasoning.
1Cor 2

[mikeboll64]

Isaiah 44:19
No one stops to think,
  no one has the knowledge or understanding to say,
“Half of it I used for fuel;
  I even baked bread over its coals,
  I roasted meat and I ate.
Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left?
 Shall I bow down to a block of wood?”

Does God sound “happy” that people stupidly made idols of worship out of a tree they cut down?  Or does He sound a little miffed that these people aren't using their God-given logic and understanding?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2012,08:02)

Isaiah 44:19 No one stops to think,   no one has the knowledge or understanding to say, “Half of it I used for fuel;   I even baked bread over its coals,   I roasted meat and I ate. Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left?  Shall I bow down to a block of wood?” Does God sound “happy” that people stupidly made idols of worship out of a tree they cut down?  Or does He sound a little miffed that these people aren't using their God-given logic and understanding?

Nick,

These words of Mike's sound wise.

It is also written:

1 Kings 10:24
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

24 All the earth was seeking the presence of Solomon, to hear his wisdom which God had put in his heart.

[mikeboll64]

God surely gave Solomon knowledge beyond any other man.  And just as surely, God intended for Solomon to use that knowledge.

God may not have given any of us the great mind He gave Solomon, but surely He wouldn't give us one ounce of logic and knowledge if He didn't intend for us to USE those things.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2012,20:16)

God surely gave Solomon knowledge beyond any other man.  And just as surely, God intended for Solomon to use that knowledge. God may not have given any of us the great mind He gave Solomon, but surely He wouldn't give us one ounce of logic and knowledge if He didn't intend for us to USE those things.

Mike

and all Solomon wisdom seems not to save him from himself because he drew away from his God ,and went astray

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