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Hi T,
Jer 33:20 “This is what the LORD says: ‘If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night no longer come at their appointed time,
Jer 33:21 then my covenant with David my servant—and my covenant with the Levites who are priests ministering before me—can be broken and David will no longer have a descendant to reign on his throne.Perhaps when Is 24 is fulfilled we will see this?
Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2012,14:08) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,20:39) Quote (Ed J @ April 02 2012,02:02) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,15:38) toby Quote Terraricca, perhaps you can answer the question that another refuses to answer – and that is: if Jesus was in a Spiritual body while in Heaven before coming as Man then how did he die on the cross seeing that the Spiritual body cannot die. first let correct your spelling ,I do not know but I believe we can not have two bodies we only have one ,like if a angel materializes and take a body of man he does not keep his spirit body ,one body at the time ,so Christ could not remain in his glorious body in heaven and at the same time being in a man's body,it is either one or the other ,so wen Christ became a man by the works of God powers he did not stay a spirit in nature but like us HE had the spirit of the soul that leaves us wen we die,this can not die unless God destroy it .
so in a matter of being right in Christ terms ;”GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING NOT OF THE DEAD”so dead for now does not exist or dead is only THE ABILITY OF NON PERFORMANCE (NO ACTIONS NO INFLUENCE)AND SO JUST WAITING FOR THE TIME OF JUDGEMENT ,)
so what happen wen Jesus died same thing of what happen to all of us ,EXCEPT HIS WAITING TIME WAS LESS THAN THREE DAYS ,
would this answer be good enough to you ?
Hi Pierre, this is all speculation?Are you suggesting: when the Angels were manifested to Lot,
that they could have been killed by the people of Sodom?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
bump,I sure would like to hear the answer to this as I started a thread related to it and it received no responses.
Kerwinyou guy's are really not in scriptures ;
IF AN ANGEL IS INVISIBLE THEN HE IS IN A SPIRIT FORM ,IF HE CAN BE SEEN THEN HE IS IN A MAN FORM ,NOW HOW FAST DOES IT TAKE TO BE IN EITHER FORM i WILL ASK WEN i MEET ONE AND TELL YOU IF i CAN
NOW THE RULES AND UNDER WITCH CONDITION CAN THOSE THINGS HAPPEN OR FUNCTION I DO NOT KNOW.
all scriptures with angels encounters were all for messages ,I have not notice an angel in the form of a man do works of the powers of angels ,this is seen in the wrestling match between an Angel(in man form) and Jacob
So you admit that you don't know what you're talking about then, right?Pierre,
Quote IF AN ANGEL IS INVISIBLE THEN HE IS IN A SPIRIT FORM ,IF HE CAN BE SEEN THEN HE IS IN A MAN FORM ,NOW HOW FAST DOES IT TAKE TO BE IN EITHER FORM i WILL ASK WEN i MEET ONE AND TELL YOU IF i CAN Where is that written. Please share the scripture as I remember how the sight of an angel was hidden from Balaam but not from his donkey.
I do not remember any scripture stating Angels being in spirit form.
Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,22:21) Pierre, Quote IF AN ANGEL IS INVISIBLE THEN HE IS IN A SPIRIT FORM ,IF HE CAN BE SEEN THEN HE IS IN A MAN FORM ,NOW HOW FAST DOES IT TAKE TO BE IN EITHER FORM i WILL ASK WEN i MEET ONE AND TELL YOU IF i CAN Where is that written. Please share the scripture as I remember how the sight of an angel was hidden from Balaam but not from his donkey.
I do not remember any scripture stating Angels being in spirit form.
KThen do not whory about because the do not exist they must be pup up winds
Quote (Ed J @ April 02 2012,22:20) Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2012,14:08) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,20:39) Quote (Ed J @ April 02 2012,02:02) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,15:38) toby Quote Terraricca, perhaps you can answer the question that another refuses to answer – and that is: if Jesus was in a Spiritual body while in Heaven before coming as Man then how did he die on the cross seeing that the Spiritual body cannot die. first let correct your spelling ,I do not know but I believe we can not have two bodies we only have one ,like if a angel materializes and take a body of man he does not keep his spirit body ,one body at the time ,so Christ could not remain in his glorious body in heaven and at the same time being in a man's body,it is either one or the other ,so wen Christ became a man by the works of God powers he did not stay a spirit in nature but like us HE had the spirit of the soul that leaves us wen we die,this can not die unless God destroy it .
so in a matter of being right in Christ terms ;”GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING NOT OF THE DEAD”so dead for now does not exist or dead is only THE ABILITY OF NON PERFORMANCE (NO ACTIONS NO INFLUENCE)AND SO JUST WAITING FOR THE TIME OF JUDGEMENT ,)
so what happen wen Jesus died same thing of what happen to all of us ,EXCEPT HIS WAITING TIME WAS LESS THAN THREE DAYS ,
would this answer be good enough to you ?
Hi Pierre, this is all speculation?Are you suggesting: when the Angels were manifested to Lot,
that they could have been killed by the people of Sodom?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
bump,I sure would like to hear the answer to this as I started a thread related to it and it received no responses.
Kerwinyou guy's are really not in scriptures ;
IF AN ANGEL IS INVISIBLE THEN HE IS IN A SPIRIT FORM ,IF HE CAN BE SEEN THEN HE IS IN A MAN FORM ,NOW HOW FAST DOES IT TAKE TO BE IN EITHER FORM i WILL ASK WEN i MEET ONE AND TELL YOU IF i CAN
NOW THE RULES AND UNDER WITCH CONDITION CAN THOSE THINGS HAPPEN OR FUNCTION I DO NOT KNOW.
all scriptures with angels encounters were all for messages ,I have not notice an angel in the form of a man do works of the powers of angels ,this is seen in the wrestling match between an Angel(in man form) and Jacob
So you admit that you don't know what you're talking about then, right?
EdjRead your bible
Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2012,13:01) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,22:21) Pierre, Quote IF AN ANGEL IS INVISIBLE THEN HE IS IN A SPIRIT FORM ,IF HE CAN BE SEEN THEN HE IS IN A MAN FORM ,NOW HOW FAST DOES IT TAKE TO BE IN EITHER FORM i WILL ASK WEN i MEET ONE AND TELL YOU IF i CAN Where is that written. Please share the scripture as I remember how the sight of an angel was hidden from Balaam but not from his donkey.
I do not remember any scripture stating Angels being in spirit form.
KThen do not whory about because the do not exist they must be pup up winds
Pierre,Then I take you are not basing this doctrine on Scripture.
Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2012,15:05) Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2012,13:01) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,22:21) Pierre, Quote IF AN ANGEL IS INVISIBLE THEN HE IS IN A SPIRIT FORM ,IF HE CAN BE SEEN THEN HE IS IN A MAN FORM ,NOW HOW FAST DOES IT TAKE TO BE IN EITHER FORM i WILL ASK WEN i MEET ONE AND TELL YOU IF i CAN Where is that written. Please share the scripture as I remember how the sight of an angel was hidden from Balaam but not from his donkey.
I do not remember any scripture stating Angels being in spirit form.
KThen do not whory about because the do not exist they must be pup up winds
Pierre,Then I take you are not basing this doctrine on Scripture.
KNO ,that is not what I say ,but you should read your bible more,
you want to much using others to do your walking in scriptures ,this put a heavy burden on others ,
Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2012,03:37) Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2012,15:05) Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2012,13:01) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,22:21) Pierre, Quote IF AN ANGEL IS INVISIBLE THEN HE IS IN A SPIRIT FORM ,IF HE CAN BE SEEN THEN HE IS IN A MAN FORM ,NOW HOW FAST DOES IT TAKE TO BE IN EITHER FORM i WILL ASK WEN i MEET ONE AND TELL YOU IF i CAN Where is that written. Please share the scripture as I remember how the sight of an angel was hidden from Balaam but not from his donkey.
I do not remember any scripture stating Angels being in spirit form.
KThen do not whory about because the do not exist they must be pup up winds
Pierre,Then I take you are not basing this doctrine on Scripture.
KNO ,that is not what I say ,but you should read your bible more,
you want to much using others to do your walking in scriptures ,this put a heavy burden on others ,
Pierre,I know what I have read in Scripture but it seems you have found something different. I do not hesitate to share what and why I understand what I do.
Let's look at the account of Balaam and the angel.
Numbers 22:31
New American Standard Bible (NASB)31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way with his drawn sword in his hand; and he bowed [a]all the way to the ground.
Footnotes:Numbers 22:31 Lit and prostrated himself to his face
It states quite clearly that God opened Balaam's eyes to the angel that was already there. There is nothing in the passage to support the teaching that angels have bodies of spirit.
Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2012,17:37) Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2012,03:37) Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2012,15:05) Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2012,13:01) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,22:21) Pierre, Quote IF AN ANGEL IS INVISIBLE THEN HE IS IN A SPIRIT FORM ,IF HE CAN BE SEEN THEN HE IS IN A MAN FORM ,NOW HOW FAST DOES IT TAKE TO BE IN EITHER FORM i WILL ASK WEN i MEET ONE AND TELL YOU IF i CAN Where is that written. Please share the scripture as I remember how the sight of an angel was hidden from Balaam but not from his donkey.
I do not remember any scripture stating Angels being in spirit form.
KThen do not whory about because the do not exist they must be pup up winds
Pierre,Then I take you are not basing this doctrine on Scripture.
KNO ,that is not what I say ,but you should read your bible more,
you want to much using others to do your walking in scriptures ,this put a heavy burden on others ,
Pierre,I know what I have read in Scripture but it seems you have found something different. I do not hesitate to share what and why I understand what I do.
Let's look at the account of Balaam and the angel.
Numbers 22:31
New American Standard Bible (NASB)31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way with his drawn sword in his hand; and he bowed [a]all the way to the ground.
Footnotes:Numbers 22:31 Lit and prostrated himself to his face
It states quite clearly that God opened Balaam's eyes to the angel that was already there. There is nothing in the passage to support the teaching that angels have bodies of spirit.
kYOU CAN NOT BE SOMETHING AND NOTHING AT THE SAME TIME SO MAKE UP YOUR MIND OF ;ARE ANGELS REAL BEINGS OR JUST A FAIRY TALE
Bump for Nick…………………………
Think it out, Nick. The earthly body is sown perishable, and raised imperishable.
Are those “born again” Christians of today living in an imperishable body right now? How about those who died to sin in Paul's day? Were they already existing in their imperishable bodies of glory while still existing as human beings on earth?
If not, then who are the “those of heaven” to which Paul refers? As is the man from heaven, so also are those of heaven.
Who are the “those of heaven” who were existing with imperishable bodies like Jesus' at the time Paul wrote this letter?
Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,20:30) Jesus is King of everything in heaven and on earth. His kingdom is superior to David's.
Why Kerwin?Why would God take the great, great, great, etc grandson of David, and place him ABOVE the one He had already appointed as the firstborn of the kings of the earth?
What was so special about Jesus?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 03 2012,06:04) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,20:30) Jesus is King of everything in heaven and on earth. His kingdom is superior to David's.
Why Kerwin?Why would God take the great, great, great, etc grandson of David, and place him ABOVE the one He had already appointed as the firstborn of the kings of the earth?
What was so special about Jesus?
Mike,We are taught David was Anointed because his (inner man, mind, will, heart) was superior to that of his brothers.
1 Samuel 16:7
New American Standard Bible (NASB)7 But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for [a]God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”
Footnotes:
a.1 Samuel 16:7 So with Gr; Heb He does not see what man sees
We know that Jesus’ (inner man, mind, will, heart) is superior to David’s. Just as David was elevated above his brothers because of his (inner man, mind, will, heart), Jesus is elevated above David because of his (inner man, mind, will, heart).
Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,18:53) We know that Jesus’ (inner man, mind, will, heart) is superior to David’s.
Why? And why does God many times call Jesus “my servant David”?Pierre,
Quote k YOU CAN NOT BE SOMETHING AND NOTHING AT THE SAME TIME SO MAKE UP YOUR MIND OF ;ARE ANGELS REAL BEINGS OR JUST A FAIRY TALE
There is nothing in the account of Balaam and the angel (satin) that supports the idea that angels are made of spirit even when invisible. In the account of Lot and the two angels they are shown to have material bodies and not spirit ones.
Where is your support for angels being non-material beings?
Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,19:04) Where is your support for angels being non-material beings?
How about the fact they are called “spirits” as opposed to “humans”?This means they are “spirit BEINGS”, just as we are “human BEINGS”.
Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2012,19:04) Pierre, Quote k YOU CAN NOT BE SOMETHING AND NOTHING AT THE SAME TIME SO MAKE UP YOUR MIND OF ;ARE ANGELS REAL BEINGS OR JUST A FAIRY TALE
There is nothing in the account of Balaam and the angel (satin) that supports the idea that angels are made of spirit even when invisible. In the account of Lot and the two angels they are shown to have material bodies and not spirit ones.
Where is your support for angels being non-material beings?
Kwhy do you not answer my question
are you scare to answer it ??YOU CAN NOT BE SOMETHING AND NOTHING AT THE SAME TIME SO MAKE UP YOUR MIND OF ;ARE ANGELS REAL BEINGS OR JUST A FAIRY TALE[
?????????Mike,
I was not expecting that question since just as it is stated many times that Jesus is the chief descendant of David it also is made clear he is superior to David; who God declared was a man after his own heart,.
Since you asked consider what is written:
Proverbs 20:9
New American Standard Bible (NASB)9 Who can say, “I have cleansed my heart,
I am pure from my sin”?Jesus can as he did not sin even though tempted as is common to man; David cannot.
You ask “why does God many times call Jesus “my servant David”?”
The answer is why is a spirit called the wind or a satan an accuser?
Here is a clue from Scripture:
John 3:8
New American Standard Bible (NASB)8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 03 2012,07:06) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,19:04) Where is your support for angels being non-material beings?
How about the fact they are called “spirits” as opposed to “humans”?This means they are “spirit BEINGS”, just as we are “human BEINGS”.
Mike,Angels are citizens of heavenly(spiritual) realms and so are called spirits. These realms are concealed from human sight even as the satan was hidden from the sight of Balaam.
About these realms we are taught that Enoch walked with God and was not, for God took him. It seems clear God caught up body and all; as there is no indication a body was left behind.
Genesis 5:24
New American Standard Bible (NASB)24 Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
Hebrews 11:5
New American Standard Bible (NASB)5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.
The witness we obtain from that event is that the result of Enoch's righteousness is that he was rewarded by ascending to make a home in heaven while in his body.
Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2012,07:31) Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2012,19:04) Pierre, Quote k YOU CAN NOT BE SOMETHING AND NOTHING AT THE SAME TIME SO MAKE UP YOUR MIND OF ;ARE ANGELS REAL BEINGS OR JUST A FAIRY TALE
There is nothing in the account of Balaam and the angel (satin) that supports the idea that angels are made of spirit even when invisible. In the account of Lot and the two angels they are shown to have material bodies and not spirit ones.
Where is your support for angels being non-material beings?
Kwhy do you not answer my question
are you scare to answer it ??YOU CAN NOT BE SOMETHING AND NOTHING AT THE SAME TIME SO MAKE UP YOUR MIND OF ;ARE ANGELS REAL BEINGS OR JUST A FAIRY TALE[
?????????
Pierre,Your question is foolish as neither you or I am claiming that angels are not real. Instead I am challenging the spirit of your claim that angels are made of spirit and not of matter.
The heavens are places we can neither see or reach unless God provides a way.
Hi Mikeboll64,
You said:Quote
Quote (toby @ April 01 2012,19:34)
Ok, can I emphasise that I did not write the word 'Drank'.
I wrote 'Drunk' and 'Drunk' is what I meant – not 'Drank'.Well, since the English word “drunk” means “inebriated”, then no, water can't be “drunk”. It can, however, be drank.
Now see how easy it is when you correctly understand what is written to you Instead of mis-interpreting things for your own mind!
Yes, Water cannot, itself, be drunk – but it can make you drunk (Scientific fact!!)
Here is my thought to you – for you (No need for a response!)
Why exactly DID you change the word 'Drunk' to say 'Drank' when I did not write that?Then think again: Why did you change the word 'Spiritual' to say 'Spirit' in the term 'Spiritual Body'…
And think: Why did you change the word 'Inherit' to say 'Enter' in the verse: 'Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God'?
Worth considering and examining your conscience as regards your 'real motives', eh?
(p.s. Between you and I: The Scriptures said against what YOU thought it should say so YOU decided what YOU think it SHOULD SAY against the better knowledge of the person who wrote what they knew about what they were talking about. But we'll keep that between ourselves, ok!)
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