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Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote problem is presenting yourself as having no sin and condemning sin in others is hypocrisy why should anyone who is a sinner themselves condemn another because of their sin.
You are full of the lies of the devil. It is very simple in that Jesus died to set us free from slavery to sin and you are doing the devil’s work to say otherwise. As Jesus said “stop sinning before something worse happens to you”.
Like your master the devil you completely made up what you wrote. No one is condemning others because they sin but I am rebuking you because you choose to do evil. I rebuke you in hopes you will change your ways and do what is right before God punishes you for your disobedience. If anyone is condemning you it yourself by the wicked actions you choose to do. Turn away from such evil and do what is right.
Your doctrine enables evil doers and a friendship with evildoers is to be a foe of God. Take to heart what John the Baptist said to the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Matthew 3:7-10(NIV) reads:
Quote But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote Does the word HYPOCRITE MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU. “
It sure does. It means a person who states it is right for me to sin but not for you. A person who states both you and I a wrong to sin and urges you to change your ways while striving to do the same themselves is not a hypocrite. The prophets and apostles did the later.
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote Using the word of God as a hammer for posturing yourself above others is a sin of Pride which is far worse then many other sins.
Another false accusation from you but that is of no matter to me. What angers me is you twisting God’s word to accuse God of lying and to make Jesus’ sacrifice out to be for nothing.
God clearly states that His Son came and died to set us free of slavery to sin and I assure you John was not contradicting that and writing that we all remain slaves to sin despite what your itching ears want to believe.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 13 2009,00:05) Hi KW,
2cor5
19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.Not counting.
God does not change and what He said in the Old Testament is just as true today. He clearly states that if a wicked man changes his ways and does what is right that He would not count(remember) that wicked man's sins against him. We can change our ways through faith in Jesus the Messiah and so be forgiven but if we do not change our ways then our sins will be counted against us.Hi KW,
Fortunately grace empowers and enables.
We cannot save ourselves and the burden of doing so belongs to the Lord.Now we can do all things through Him Who strengthens us.
Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 13 2009,02:52) Hi KW,
Fortunately grace empowers and enables.
We cannot save ourselves and the burden of doing so belongs to the Lord.Now we can do all things through Him Who strengthens us.
Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Sounds good!Kerwin,
Gene is not saying it is OK to sin – he is acknowledging that we are human beings saved by the grace of God. It is God that works in us to clean us from all unrighteousness. However while in a physical, lustful, human body we will not be totally like Jesus and totally without sin, we need to confess our sins which can include pride, false humility, wrongful judgement, etc.
It seems to me in this case you are both saying the same thing using different words then misinterpreting what the other is saying and accusing the other of what they are not actually meaning.
Romans 8:22-24
Nick
This thread is Jesus promises YOU will stop sinning – have you stopped?
Has any christian stopped sinning while in a physical, carnal human body?
Hi mk,
Of course not.
There are even unknown sins.We know they are not being recorded[2Cor5]
That is why Jesus told us to pray every day for forgiveness[mt6]
Meerkat wrote:
Quote However while in a physical, lustful, human body we will not be totally like Jesus and totally without sin, we need to confess our sins which can include pride, false humility, wrongful judgment, etc.
The problem with your argument is that Jesus himself said the if we obeyed his teachings then he would set us free from slavery to sin. He also went on to say anyone who sins is a slave to sin. The question then becomes did he lie or can we stop sinning if we obey his teachings. His teaching is hard to accept which is why many of those listening to him picked up stones to stone him at that time. John 8:31-59 in the NIV.
At the same time I assure you it is not our human body that causes us to sin as that is a Gnostic teaching since they believe that the material world is evil and the spiritual world is good.. It is a silly argument as God created our body and he did not create us to be slaves to sin. The spirit of man was corrupted and so made a slave to sin when Eve and Adam chose to sin in the garden of Eden and now we are given a new spirit that is a slave to righteousness through faith in Jesus our Messiah if we choose to believe. We cannot expect to receive that spirit of righteousness if we do not believe that through the power of God we can stop sinning because we must believe it is possible to be freed from slavery to sin.
Meerkat wrote:
Quote .It seems to me in this case you are both saying the same thing using different words then misinterpreting what the other is saying and accusing the other of what they are not actually meaning.
I do not believe that is the situation.
Hi KW,
You say
“The problem with your argument is that Jesus himself said the if we obeyed his teachings then he would set us free from slavery to sin. “Is this what you mean?
John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.No mention of sin there
Hi KW,
You say
“We cannot expect to receive that spirit of righteousness if we do not believe that through the power of God we can stop sinning because we must believe it is possible to be freed from slavery to sin.”God does not seem to demand we believe everything before He will give us of His Spirit.
Certainly mastery over sin is impossible without the help of that Spirit.Lk11
11If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Jesus came for evil men, for sinners.
Hi KW,
If we read scripture we eventually come around to seeing that there are no worse sinners than you and I and that the roots of every sin could, I am sure, be found in any of us.Once we come to that point then we fess up and get washed.
The biggest problems happen when we do not quite get to that point but try to hold back some of our inner territory which we think it is of righteousness and the light is not allowed to penetrate deeply into our soul and set us free.
Lordship is total rule.
We have nothing to offer God .
He is the one doing us the favourNick Hassan wrote:
Quote Of course not.
There are even unknown sins.You stepped in a snare of the devil by answering that question as it was a loaded question where no answer you gave would have done anything but sooth the itching ears of the one who asked it. If you say “yes” then you would be called a liar and if you say “no” they will feel justified for sinning.
In truth the answer to that question is irrelevant to what God states and he clearly states that those who truly believe in His Son will stop sinning if they obey Jesus’ teachings.
I have a question regarding a scripture but first I will quote the scripture.
Galatians 5:16-17(NIV) reads:
Quote So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.
Can you obey this scripture at the same time you are committing a sin even an unknown one?
In fact isn’t it true that the only time you can sin is if you are living according to the sinful nature about what it is written:
Galatians 5:19-21(NIV) reads:
Quote The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Should we not rather do what we are taught?
Galatians 5:25-26(NIV)reads:
Quote Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other
.
It is really a black and white issue in that either we live by the spirit of love or we do not. In the later case we need to obtain the spirit or confess our sins and put it back on while having faith God is working to cleanse us so that we do not do what we want to do.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote No mention of sin there
You went 2 versus before and 2 versus after where Jesus mentions what he will free those that obey his teachings from.
John 8:34(NIV) reads:
Quote Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin
Paul also makes the same point in Romans 6 with similar language.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote God does not seem to demand we believe everything before He will give us of His Spirit.
As long as you believe that God does not lie then I agree but considering the Spirit is the fulfillment of God’s promise to fill those that hunger and thirst for righteousness with what they desire I am going to say you need to know and believe that particular promise as it is the promise of the Holy Spirit.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Jesus came for evil men, for sinners.
Why would a truly righteous man need the spirit? Of course all human beings are slaves to sin before entering the New Covenant which sets them free. Jesus was set free from Adam’s and Eve’s curse because he received the Spirit from the point of conception unlike anyone else.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote If we read scripture we eventually come around to seeing that there are no worse sinners than you and I and that the roots of every sin could, I am sure, be found in any of us.
I agree with this statement in that some do as you say and the rest of your post is good as well.
Hi KW,
Sin is in the eyes of the Beholder.
If we sin as we do and God does not impute sin to us should we foolishly involve ourselves in self judgement?1Cor 4.4
4For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord.God does not want self absorbed children wasting time studying their navels.
There is too much walking and working to do instead of counting our imperfections
He does not want us indulging in self perfection as no man can make himself righteous.
Doing the work of sanctification for God can be foolishly taking the role of God in our lives
We walk, stumble and we fall and we learn from the guiding Spirit who trains us in righteous waysHeb12
12Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Hi KW,
You do not arrive at the destination of perfection by thinking about it but by walking so that you can be made stronger. We cannot see yet what we will be but if we keep obeying we will be like him when he returns. Vain philosophy is done in armchairs and those with their boots on are too busy to so indulge themselves1 John 3:2
Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.Hi KW,
All these words are written to the saved.
” 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
It is not just the words about being led by the Spirit that apply to us. This shows every christian faces these choices daily and must oppose their own nature and submit to correction by the sanctifying Spirit.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote God does not want self absorbed children wasting time studying their navels.
Jesus does tell us to watch our actions and be clothed and ready for service. I would not call that self absorbed.
Luke 12:34-40(NIV) reads:
Quote “Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night. 39But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”
Paul teaches the same.
2 Corinthians 13:5(NIV) reads:
Quote Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
If you sin then you are not living by the Spirit but if you truly love your neighbor as yourself you are.
kerwin,Jan. wrote:Kerwin,
You wrote,”scripture clearly states those who live the spirit will not sin. It is true that to live by the spirit you have faith and your faith must be completely mature to live by the spirit at all times.
It appears to me everyone, including you, are finally on the same page – a completely mature faith will walk sinless at all times but none of us have that completely mature faith. Rather, our faith pregressively carries us on Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”
Quote It is that goal toward which any true servant of Jesus, and thus God who he serves, will sincerely strive. Kerwin, it is the faith for which all the true servants in these postings have said we all sincerely strive.
Quote This is the hope for which I strive and for which I earnestly desire others to strive for. Again, I see us all on the same page, we join one another
in this hope striving to walk constantly in the Spirit led by the Spirit. But Kerwin, if we have already attained it all striving ceases.Blessings,
Seeking
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 13 2009,20:17) Nick Hassan wrote: Quote God does not want self absorbed children wasting time studying their navels.
Jesus does tell us to watch our actions and be clothed and ready for service. I would not call that self absorbed.
Luke 12:34-40(NIV) reads:
Quote “Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night. 39But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”
Paul teaches the same.
2 Corinthians 13:5(NIV) reads:
Quote Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
If you sin then you are not living by the Spirit but if you truly love your neighbor as yourself you are.
Hi KW,
Does God want self perfected children or obedient and busy ones?He does not want china dolls or Kens and Barbies.
You admit we sin in unknown ways so to what benefit is there is studying ourselves looking for them?
Washing our feet once a day is enough as the hours of the day for walking and working are few enough.
Daily forgiveness is far more important than self perfectionism.
Hi KW,
Luke 12:34-40
“Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night. 39But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”This speaks of men watching for the return of their Master, not watching themselves.
We are incapable of sanctifying ourselves as we are not innately holy.
The Holy Spirit does this work.2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
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