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Hi UMB5,
Perhaps you should be more interested in the WORD.
The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
The Word was with God and was God.
The flesh contributes nothing.
Hi UMB5,
Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel and the sound of the trumpet.
Why be selective?
Is Jesus Christ a trumpet to you?Okay…so first of all instead of throwing out insults, just stick to scriptures.
Hi UMB5,
You(UMB5) and Nick have established Nick’s question as a legitimate question. How?
Because you presented to me a similar question – asking if Peter was the HolySpirit
in Acts 5:3-5 because Ananias was speaking to Peter. I said NO and explained why.So here is Nick’s question more properly asked: (and please do not dodge)
Is Jesus God’s trumpet in 1Thess.4:16 – “Yes” or“No” ? Also please feel
free to explain either your answer of “no” or why your answer is “Yes”________________
God Bless
Ed JOkay…so first of all instead of throwing out insults, just stick to scriptures. I take it that you are saying that Jesus is not Michael the archangel, however he is coming with Michael, and with the trumpet, however the word Angel is translated “messenger”, so Jesus definitely is the highest messenger, or chief messenger, or arc-messenger. We also know that punctuation did not exist when the bible writers were writing the bible, so we can not assume this scripture can be translated that way. We can however compare and look at other scriptures. Compare Rev 12:7 that Michael leads the angels to defeat Satan and hurl him to earth; then in Rev 19:13,19 it says that Christ leads that heavenly army of angels and conducts God’s war. Daniel 2:1 says that Michael shall stand up, the great prince that stands for the children of thy people. Also, At Rev: 20:1,2,10 Satan is abyssed by an “angel” for a thousand years, compare to Matt 8:29 the demons indicated that it would be Jesus that would be the one to hurl them into the abyss. Then Jesus is prophesied to crush Satan’s head (Gen 3:15l 1john 3:8), yet is Michael and his Angels that are conquering Satan in Revelations 12. The belief that Michael is another name for Jesus is not so silly or clunky…and actually has scriptural backing for that conclusion. Is it not whether you agree or not, that defines the belief.
Hi UMB5,
We have been through this before. Here is the Scripture you need to address.
”For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?” (Heb 1:5)
This is a rhetorical question meaning to NOT ANY ANGEL at any time.
It is not saying to which one – um that would be Michael the Archangel right ??? NOOOor this one…
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
(Heb 1:13)
It is not saying to which one – um that would be Michael the Archangel right ??? NOOOAlso your(JW) theology creates a contradiction between Heb 2:5 and Heb 2:8
For unto the angels (including Michael the Archangel) HE HATH NOT put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. (Heb 2:5)
“Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under (Jesus Christ) him, he left nothing that is not put under him (that would include all the Angels including Michael the Archangel).” (Heb 2:8)
…so MY question to you is:
Is the word “him” in Hebrews 2:8 a reference to “Jesus Christ” – “Yes” or “No” ?
(please do not dodge)
Hi UMB5,
The use of one verse interpretation and personal inference is not helpful in dealing with Spiritual truth.
That sort of nonsense led to the trinity folly.
Hi Nick,
1. God didn’t put the world to come in subjugation to the Angels in Heb.2:5, but then
HE DID put the world to come in subjugation to Michael the Archangel (*in Heb.2:8* ???).2. God says there are no gods in Isiah 44:8, but then he also says THAT THERE IS (*exactly where* ???).
Point #2 is based on trying to back translate the word god. Better said only God is God.
_______________
God bless
Ed JHi UMB5,
You asked me a question to which I replied: “are you sure that you want me to explain 1Thess.4:16 ?”
You assured me that you did and then after I explained it – you never responded back.Here is the link… …[b](Link)[/b] …[size=15]can you please at least respond?[/size]
___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _______________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODHi ed
“God didn’t put the world to come in subjugation to the Angels (Heb.2:5), but
he did put the world to come in subjugation to Michael the Archangel (Heb.2:8).”I am sure you are joking
Hi ED,
“God says there are no gods in Isiah 44:8, but he also says there are (*where*???).”
There are SO CALLED gods as Paul told us but they are not gods in the view of the Almighty one.
Hi ed
“God didn’t put the world to come in subjugation to the Angels (Heb.2:5), but
he did put the world to come in subjugation to Michael the Archangel (Heb.2:8).”I am sure you are joking
Hi Nick,
He did *IF* Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
I guess some guys like me and you would conclude from the text Jesus cannot be Michael.
EdJ,
Scripture states Jesus is the Son of Man and the Son of God but nowhere does it say he is the Son of Angels. It also states he was born of the Seed of David, as of the flesh, which teaches us how he is the Son of Man. God foretold he would put his Spirit on his Servant and that tells us how he is the Son of God.
The bottom line is Jesus was not created to save either angels, spirits, or God himself but only to save human beings and so he was created a human being that was subject to temptation as any other human being is.
Nick,
That is not beyond what is written but in contradiction to what is written.
Scripture says Jesus is a human being but despite that those that find that fact a challenge try to reduce that challenge by making him more than human.
Kerwin…..I agree with what you wrote, Jesus was and is a human being, He is not an angel of any kind, nor is he a spirit being either, he is a pure son of man, even if GOD THE FATHER Provided his human male DNA , HE STILL WAS OF THE HUMAN RACE FROM THE LOINS OF KING DAVID, JUST AS THE APOSTLE PAUL SAYS HE WAS.
peace and love to you and yours. ………………..gene
Gene,
We have the ability to preserve male gametes today and what we can God can do better so if he desired he could have kept David’s male gamete’s and used them to artificially inseminate Mary.
The easiest way would have been to use genetic manipulation to cause parthenogenesis and then change the gender to male so that Mary basically conceived her identical twin though a male instead of a female.
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