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John's Predecessor?
Jn.1:15 certainly suggests a pre-existence as it appears in the KJV; “John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.” First, the idea of preference is not found in the Greek. The word translated “preferred” is the Greek “ginomai”. Of the 678 times it was used in the New Testament, it was translated “preferred” three times, once here and in verses 27 & 30 where the same verse is repeated. The word should have been translated “come to be”; “He that cometh after me has come to be before me.” As for the latter part of the verse, the word “before” is from the Greek “protos”. Of the 105 times this word was used, it was never translated “before”. The most common rendering is “first,” however, based on the context, it should be translated as the Emphatic Diaglott has it, “for he is my Superior.” “Protos” was also translated “chief” nine times in the New Testament.
Those who feed on “definition of word” will be forever hungry: for as often as one seemingly palatable interpretation is swallowed down in one moment, it is regurgitated in preference for another seemingly more palatable interpretation.
Martian,
BOTH your version of the term applies:
Jesus is rightly BOTH Before John the Baptist in the Spiritual sense – Pre-Existence,
and also
“becomes first” in the new Testament revelation Leadership sense – Pre-Eminence.Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 08 2010,09:08) Those who feed on “definition of word” will be forever hungry: for as often as one seemingly palatable interpretation is swallowed down in one moment, it is regurgitated in preference for another seemingly more palatable interpretation.
Nope,
there is only one definition for the word. It is defined that way over 350 times in scripture. In all of those cases it is defined statement speech or idea. It is in only a few cases that it is twisted into a meaning of Christ wherein it can be used for a doctrine that has no clear scriptural truth.Quote (martian @ Aug. 08 2010,03:54) John's Predecessor? Jn.1:15 certainly suggests a pre-existence as it appears in the KJV; “John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.” First, the idea of preference is not found in the Greek. The word translated “preferred” is the Greek “ginomai”. Of the 678 times it was used in the New Testament, it was translated “preferred” three times, once here and in verses 27 & 30 where the same verse is repeated. The word should have been translated “come to be”; “He that cometh after me has come to be before me.” As for the latter part of the verse, the word “before” is from the Greek “protos”. Of the 105 times this word was used, it was never translated “before”. The most common rendering is “first,” however, based on the context, it should be translated as the Emphatic Diaglott has it, “for he is my Superior.” “Protos” was also translated “chief” nine times in the New Testament.
Mike……….Martian has posted a very important thing here about your preexistence teachings, He has very accurately presented it Here. Check it out in fact all you Trinitarians and Preexistences should then maybe you can start to get the picture. You have all been decieved into believing these (FALSE) teaching about the trinity and Preexistence of Jesus both teaching are wrong.Mike Something you should always understand is that those who were translating the scriptures into English were already believers in the Trinity and Preexistence of Jesus. So naturally they chose words that would forward their convections. But as Martian brought out Here they simply were forcing the text to meet their dogmas.
“COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE THAT YOU RECEIVE NOT OF (HER) PLAGUES” accept the truth that you may be set free from these plagues of untruths brothers.
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Martian,
If this is so what is the dispute?
What is the post about: Arguing about a word that has only 'one definition' (BTW: No word only has one definition!)
Well, lets see – What exactly do you mean by “One” and “Definition”?
If 'the word' (what was it again?) only has One: a single or unique item, a unit, a number denoting … meaning, then that word, then cannot be used in any other context or situation – by definition: as interpreted by the language, culture, social understanding and/or coloquialism, perhaps!
What are we talking about anyway…?
JA……….Why do you keep trying to force yourself over others , martian is 100% accurate in what he has posted, why not just say thanks martian instead of find some kind of ridicule. Then come back and say both you version and interpretations apply, Your insinuations only sever to distort the truth being put forth here and serves no Godly purpose whatsoever. Bad form JA.
peace and love……………………….gene
Gene,
I'm making a point of pointless analysis: The “Analysis paralysis”…
But all the same, it's good to see that you care.
JA…………Martians posts are definitely (NOT) pointless brother. There is no place more need for martian's and darely's analytic Spirit driven minds then here brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 09 2010,01:08) Quote (martian @ Aug. 08 2010,03:54) John's Predecessor? Jn.1:15 certainly suggests a pre-existence as it appears in the KJV; “John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.” First, the idea of preference is not found in the Greek. The word translated “preferred” is the Greek “ginomai”. Of the 678 times it was used in the New Testament, it was translated “preferred” three times, once here and in verses 27 & 30 where the same verse is repeated. The word should have been translated “come to be”; “He that cometh after me has come to be before me.” As for the latter part of the verse, the word “before” is from the Greek “protos”. Of the 105 times this word was used, it was never translated “before”. The most common rendering is “first,” however, based on the context, it should be translated as the Emphatic Diaglott has it, “for he is my Superior.” “Protos” was also translated “chief” nine times in the New Testament.
Mike……….Martian has posted a very important thing here about your preexistence teachings, He has very accurately presented it Here. Check it out in fact all you Trinitarians and Preexistences should then maybe you can start to get the picture. You have all been decieved into believing these (FALSE) teaching about the trinity and Preexistence of Jesus both teaching are wrong.Mike Something you should always understand is that those who were translating the scriptures into English were already believers in the Trinity and Preexistence of Jesus. So naturally they chose words that would forward their convections. But as Martian brought out Here they simply were forcing the text to meet their dogmas.
“COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE THAT YOU RECEIVE NOT OF (HER) PLAGUES” accept the truth that you may be set free from these plagues of untruths brothers.
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Thanks Gene. I am enchoraged by your support.
MartianQuote (martian @ Aug. 08 2010,03:54) John's Predecessor? Jn.1:15 certainly suggests a pre-existence as it appears in the KJV; “John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.” First, the idea of preference is not found in the Greek. The word translated “preferred” is the Greek “ginomai”. Of the 678 times it was used in the New Testament, it was translated “preferred” three times, once here and in verses 27 & 30 where the same verse is repeated. The word should have been translated “come to be”; “He that cometh after me has come to be before me.” As for the latter part of the verse, the word “before” is from the Greek “protos”. Of the 105 times this word was used, it was never translated “before”. The most common rendering is “first,” however, based on the context, it should be translated as the Emphatic Diaglott has it, “for he is my Superior.” “Protos” was also translated “chief” nine times in the New Testament.
Martian,If I may. Your post needs no addition, but a look at other scriptures might be helpful to some.
Jesus Christ was the central figure in God's plan for man's redemption. John the Baptist was not, Abraham was not, etc.
The first mention of Jesus Christ is in Genesis 3:15.
Genesis 3:15 is not about Abraham or David or John the Baptist. They were people we need to know about and understand so that we can learn from their examples, but they did not bring about our salvation, our redemption. How many people were specifically foretold of in the scriptures? Not many, John the Baptist is one. Evidently one of the believing kings of Israel was another. I do not recall who it is.
Jesus Christ, in obedience to the Father, the only true God, brought about our redemption.
Some might ask? How could some man bring about our redemption? How did Moses lead 600,000 men besides women and children out of Egypt? He did it by obeying God, it is that simple. (I did not say easy, I said simple).
How did David have the courage to face up to Goliath. He was already in the habit of believing God. He knew that where his human strength ceased, God would supply whatever was needed.
I appreciate your posts.
barley
Barely and martian………..I appreciate both of your posts , the spirit of soundness is in them always. You both give us great encouragements and enlightens the Spirit in Us. Those who have the spirit of truth (IN) them Know the sound of that Spirit, they have that Spirit installed (IN) them by GOD the Father. These are the Sheep who follow the sound of the Master and Know His voice when they hear it. Both of you Keep up the good work brothers. If you continue you will hear the words well done my good and faithful servants. IMO
peace and love to you both……………….gene
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