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Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,08:50) Hi Mike: Please show me the scriptures relative to the Apostle Paul saying that Satan is “a god” or that he was “a god” to him.
2 Cor 4:4. And by “to him”, I mean “as far as Paul is concerned”, Satan is a god. I didn't mean that Satan is Paul's god………… as should have been evident from one of my very recent posts to you – where I said plain and clear that the fact Paul recognizes Satan as the god that he is does not mean Satan is Paul's god.Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,08:50) Is the following scripture or not? Quote 1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
Yep. The entire statement is scripture, Marty. So why is it that you only believe the last part?And why would you take those claims in the last part as LITERAL statements when you know full well Jesus is NOT literally the ONLY lord in existence?
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,08:50) I see also that you have a difficult time in understanding what I and others have been saying relative to God calling his representatives “god” or “gods” because of John 1.
Is Satan a representative of Jehovah? Then why is HE called a god by both Paul and Jehovah Himself?Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,08:50) If in John 1, “the Word” is Jesus as a sentient person, then John 1c “and the was God” would indicate that “Jesus is God”, and “he has indicated that he is not God”. He said that “he is the Christ, the Son of the living God”.
I am well aware that Jesus is not the MOST HIGH god, but instead the Son OF that One.But are YOU aware that John 1:1c can just as faithfully be translated as “and the Word was a god”? Even the Trinitarian scholars acknowledge this as a completely possible translation, Marty.
So do you believe the words Jehovah spoke through Isaiah in 9:6 – that Jesus would be called a mighty god? If you believe those words, and you know that “a god” is a perfectly acceptable translation of John 1:1c, then all that's left is for you to add 1+1, Marty.
If Jesus IS called a mighty god like the MOST HIGH god told us he would be, then what prohibits John 1:1 from being one of the scriptures in which he is called “a god”?
This is why you must have ALL of the info, Marty…….. not just the stuff you've been told, and not just the stuff you WANT to believe.
The FACT of the matter is that there are many others who are not only CALLED gods by Jehovah and certain inspired writers of scripture, but who also PERFORMED in a way that only a god could. (Water into blood, calling fire from heaven, staffs into snakes, bringing wrath down upon the Israelites, telling the future, etc.)
I realize that you guys don't WANT to believe these scriptural truths for PERSONAL reasons. But your WANTS don't have anything to do with the fact that these truths are in the scriptures anyway. They're not going away….. and neither am I.
Quote (abe @ Aug. 12 2013,12:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2013,08:10) Abe, I'm still waiting for your DIRECT answer about Gen 3:5 and 3:22. Do you believe the gods to whom Satan referred in 3:5 are the “one of us” to whom Jehovah referred in 3:22? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,That is a Silly question to ask a Christian.
Peace….
Why?Quote (2besee @ Aug. 12 2013,16:13) What does scripture conclude on this matter? “There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.”
Now, change the words in that to see if your belief fits!
What does scripture say?As indeed there are many gods, in heaven and on earth..
Now, change the words in that to see if your belief fits! (Many already have, by adding the words “false” and “so-called” into that scripture.
)Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,17:29) Hi Pierre: I already showed in my response to Mike why Satan is called “the god of this world”.
I don't think you did, Marty…………… unless you consider Satan to be one of Jehovah's representatives. Do you?Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,17:29) But this is where we will find whether or not he is in reality “a god”. Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
What exactly IS “a god”, Marty? Jehovah and Paul both called Satan a god. Why won't you believe them? For personal reasons, I suspect.
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,12:10) Quote (2besee @ Aug. 13 2013,04:13) So, let us revisit the OP.
This is the understanding that has been gained so far, and I think that the original OP needs to have some adjusting!Quote OP:
Quote
Mike believe one
LU believes two
WJ believes three
EdJ believes fourSo now:
Gene believes one God
Marty believes one God
2besee believes one God
LU believes two Gods
Wakeup believes two Gods
WJ believes three Gods
Jammin believes three Gods
Mike believes multiple Gods
Teraricca believes multiple GodsEd J, Abe, Kerwin, t8, etc, I am not too sure.
Does that sound correct?
If I have any-one wrong, please tell me, or if unknown, please state your position.What does scripture conclude on this matter?
“There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.”
Now, change the words in that to see if your belief fits!
Cheers.
2BEEQuote Teraricca believes multiple Gods you are ignorant and it show when you talk ,spreading lies is some thing I really do not stand for ;prove your point or I will reported as a slander to the moderators ,
Teraricca,How many Gods are there to you?
A) There is only one God.
B) There are two Gods.
C) There are three Gods.
D) There are many Gods.Only answer A, B, C, or D, without adding or changing anything such as caps.
Thanks.Quote (2besee @ Aug. 12 2013,16:13) So now: Gene believes one God
Marty believes one God
2besee believes one God
LU believes two Gods
Wakeup believes two Gods
WJ believes three Gods
Jammin believes three Gods
Mike believes multiple Gods
Teraricca believes multiple GodsEd J, Abe, Kerwin, t8, etc, I am not too sure.
Ed believes in only one. Abe believes in one. t8 apparently believes in two – Satan and Jehovah.If you change the capital “G” to a lower case “g”, you can add Kerwin and Lightenup in with me and Pierre.
Which means that there are only four people on this entire site that base their understanding soley on what the scriptures actually say about this matter. That's sad.
Quote (2besee @ Aug. 12 2013,17:47) How many Gods are there to you? A) There is only one God.
B) There are two Gods.
C) There are three Gods.
D) There are many Gods.Only answer A, B, C, or D, without adding or changing anything such as caps.
Oh………… in that case I'm a letter A.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,12:41) Quote (2besee @ Aug. 12 2013,16:13) What does scripture conclude on this matter? “There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.”
Now, change the words in that to see if your belief fits!
What does scripture say?As indeed there are many gods, in heaven and on earth..
Now, change the words in that to see if your belief fits! (Many already have, by adding the words “false” and “so-called” into that scripture.
)
Mike, Greek is:“Even truly IF indeed there are those CALLED gods….”
“If” er εἴπερ
“Called” legomenoi λεγόμενοιQuote “There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.” Now, change the words in that to see if your belief fits!
So then, Mike, Teraricca, LU, and Kerwin (?) would say:
There is many Gods and one mediator between the many Gods and men, the God Christ Jesus.
A trinitarian would have it say:
There are three Gods and one mediator between the three Gods and men, the God Christ Jesus. (Isn't that four?!)When what it actually says is:
“There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Who would be correct, according to that clear scripture?
The ones who believe it as it says?Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2013,05:29) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,10:07) Marty Quote Please show me the scriptures relative to the Apostle Paul saying that Satan is “a god” or that he was “a god” to him. marty
2Co 4:1 Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart.
2Co 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
2Co 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2Co 4:5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.JN 8:44 “ You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Jas 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
Jas 1:23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror
Jas 1:24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.Jas 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.all those scriptures will answer your request I am sure
————–
2CO 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
i WAS SO BUSY I OVER LOOK THIS ONE
Hi Pierre:I already showed in my response to Mike why Satan is called “the god of this world”.
But this is where we will find whether or not he is in reality “a god”.
Quote Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever Love in Christ,
Marty
Martywe know that god mean mighty one and yes Satan is a mighty one in his own world ,this is why Christ says my kingdom is not of this world ;we do not argue that fact ,
what we saying is that their are many “MIGHTY ONES ” IN THIS WORLD , this is why God almighty says ; HE HIS THE GO OF GODS ,OR THE ALMIGHTY ONE OVER ALL THE MIGHTY ONES “
THIS ONLY MAKE IT OBVIOUS TO THE TRUE BELIEVER NOT TO GO TO A LESS MIGHTY ONE THAN THE ALMIGHTY ONE JEHOVAH,THAT SIMPLE
Quote (2besee @ Aug. 13 2013,06:14) Quote “There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.” Now, change the words in that to see if your belief fits!
So then, Mike, Teraricca, LU, and Kerwin (?) would say:
There is many Gods and one mediator between the many Gods and men, the God Christ Jesus.
A trinitarian would have it say:
There are three Gods and one mediator between the three Gods and men, the God Christ Jesus. (Isn't that four?!)When what it actually says is:
“There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Who would be correct, according to that clear scripture?
The ones who believe it as it says?
2BEEQuote There is many Gods and one mediator between the many Gods and men, the God Christ Jesus. you have difficulty to see ;Mike just tells you ,but you seam not to see it ;
scriptures is saying that their are other gods around and the true almighty God the father says DO NOT GO AFTER THOSE GODS BECAUSE THEY CANNOT SAVE YOU
THIS IS THE TRUTH OUT OF GOD'S MOUTH WHY WOULD MIKE AND I NOT BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES
YOU SEEM TO MAKE UP THINGS TO SHOW WHAT OR DO YOU TRY TO GLORIFY YOURSELF ON OUR EXPENSE MIKE AND I BELIEVE IN ONLY ONE GOD JEHOVAH AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN MEN AND GOD HIS SON JESUS CHRIST ,SO STOP LYING
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,11:29) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2013,05:29) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,10:07) Marty Quote Please show me the scriptures relative to the Apostle Paul saying that Satan is “a god” or that he was “a god” to him. marty
2Co 4:1 Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart.
2Co 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
2Co 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2Co 4:5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.JN 8:44 “ You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Jas 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
Jas 1:23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror
Jas 1:24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.Jas 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.all those scriptures will answer your request I am sure
————–
2CO 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
i WAS SO BUSY I OVER LOOK THIS ONE
Hi Pierre:I already showed in my response to Mike why Satan is called “the god of this world”.
But this is where we will find whether or not he is in reality “a god”.
Quote Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever Love in Christ,
Marty
Martywe know that god mean mighty one and yes Satan is a mighty one in his own world ,this is why Christ says my kingdom is not of this world ;we do not argue that fact ,
what we saying is that their are many “MIGHTY ONES ” IN THIS WORLD , this is why God almighty says ; HE HIS THE GO OF GODS ,OR THE ALMIGHTY ONE OVER ALL THE MIGHTY ONES “
THIS ONLY MAKE IT OBVIOUS TO THE TRUE BELIEVER NOT TO GO TO A LESS MIGHTY ONE THAN THE ALMIGHTY ONE JEHOVAH,THAT SIMPLE
Hi Pierre:Are we going to go over this over and over again,
I have already acknowledged that Satan is called “the god of this world”, and he is “a god” to those who obey him, but although he does have certain powers, powers to deceive, and powers to kill the body, which God allows until his purposes are accomplished, it is only because God allows it.But I have been delivered from his power, and so, to me, satan is not “a god”. I don't obey him, and my eyes have been opened to know that there is “Only One True God.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (2besee @ Aug. 12 2013,17:56) Mike, Greek is: “Even truly IF indeed there are those CALLED gods….”
Go on………………..What are the next words?
Quote (2besee @ Aug. 12 2013,17:57) Mike, capital or small G makes no difference!
So to you, Satan is the God of this age? How many translations cap the “G” in 2 Cor 4:4, 2B? How many of them cap the “G” when the god in question is not Jehovah?How then can you even keep a straight face when saying the case of the “G” makes no difference?
Quote (2besee @ Aug. 12 2013,18:14) So then, Mike, Teraricca, LU, and Kerwin (?) would say: There is many Gods and one mediator between the many Gods and men, the God Christ Jesus.
2B,I hope this is the last time you cap the “G” in “God” when claiming what I, Pierre, Kerwin, and Kathi believe.
You have been corrected on this matter at least twice now. Don't do it anymore. If you do, you are telling LIES about our beliefs AFTER being corrected about what it is we actually believe. That will get you a tile.
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,18:47) Hi Pierre: Are we going to go over this over and over again?
I have already acknowledged that Satan is called “the god of this world”, and he is “a god” to those who obey him………..
But he was “a god” to Paul, and Paul didn't obey him……….. so your reasoning is faulty – as I've already shown you a couple of days ago.So I guess we'll keep going over it until you accept the fact that as far as Paul was concerned, Satan was a god – EVEN THOUGH Paul didn't obey him.
Are you ready to accept this plain to see scriptural FACT?
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 12 2013,18:39) MIKE AND I BELIEVE IN ONLY ONE GOD JEHOVAH AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN MEN AND GOD HIS SON JESUS CHRIST ,SO STOP LYING
Amen! I posted my response about 2B's lies before I even read that you said the same thing.I don't fault you for being upset, Pierre. It also upset me because 2B knows exactly what he's doing. He is “grandstanding” a lie, when he knows it is a lie.
He has been warned, and hopefully will honor that warning.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,13:51) Quote (2besee @ Aug. 12 2013,17:57) Mike, capital or small G makes no difference!
So to you, Satan is the God of this age? How many translations cap the “G” in 2 Cor 4:4, 2B? How many of them cap the “G” when the god in question is not Jehovah?How then can you even keep a straight face when saying the case of the “G” makes no difference?
Mike-
Small g capital g, it makes no difference. All occurrences are translated from the one Greek word, “theos”.
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