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Quote (2besee @ Aug. 09 2013,01:33) Abe,
I can see a connection in something:He stationed the *cherubim* and the flaming *sword* which turned every direction to guard the *way* to the *Tree* of *life*
I am the *way* the truth and the *life*. Nobody comes to the Father but through me.
Revelation 19:11 I saw the heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it is called Faithful and True. In righteousness he judges and makes war.
19:12 *His eyes are a flame of fire*, and on his head are many crowns. He has names written and a name written which no one knows but he himself.
19:15 Out of his mouth proceeds a sharp, double-edged *sword*, that with it he should strike the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He treads the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.
Does that connection tell you that Jesus is the cherubim who was placed at the entrance to the tree of life a long time ago?
(That's not too far from the truth.)
Marty,
The Koine Greek and Englis seems to loose some of the Hebrew meaning as there is only one true gods(elohim). In English we try to regain some of it by capitalization. God is God and not a god. A god is gods representative, whether loyal or not.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,09:44) Marty, The Koine Greek and Englis seems to loose some of the Hebrew meaning as there is only one true gods(elohim). In English we try to regain some of it by capitalization. God is God and not a god. A god is gods representative, whether loyal or not.
Hi Kerwin:He is “The God”, and for me, as a born again Christian, there is no other God period.
Satan is called the “god of this world”, but no, he is not God's representative, although God may allow him to do his thing in order to accomplish His purpose, and so, no, I don't agree with your statement, that “a god” is God's representative whether not he s loyal to God or not.
Any person or thing may be “a god” to any individual, but God's representatives, although called “gods”. They are not individually “a god”.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,04:44) Marty, The Koine Greek and Englis seems to loose some of the Hebrew meaning as there is only one true gods(elohim). In English we try to regain some of it by capitalization. God is God and not a god. A god is gods representative, whether loyal or not.
KERWINQuote A god is gods representative, whether loyal or not. what scripture make you believe this
how could someone be a representative of the truth of God by being disloyal to himQuote (942767 @ Aug. 10 2013,05:01) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,09:44) Marty, The Koine Greek and Englis seems to loose some of the Hebrew meaning as there is only one true gods(elohim). In English we try to regain some of it by capitalization. God is God and not a god. A god is gods representative, whether loyal or not.
Hi Kerwin:He is “The God”, and for me, as a born again Christian, there is no other God period.
Satan is called the “god of this world”, but no, he is not God's representative, although God may allow him to do his thing in order to accomplish His purpose, and so, no, I don't agree with your statement, that “a god” is God's representative whether not he s loyal to God or not.
Any person or thing may be “a god” to any individual, but God's representatives, although called “gods”. They are not individually “a god”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Acts 28:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
They are speaking of Paul and Paul who earlier objected to being mistaken for a Greek God did not object this time.
Even though it is the same word it has more than one recorded meaning. Paul was seen as a great by these people who saw him escape certain death but not one to whom religious worship is due.
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 10 2013,05:02) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,04:44) Marty, The Koine Greek and Englis seems to loose some of the Hebrew meaning as there is only one true gods(elohim). In English we try to regain some of it by capitalization. God is God and not a god. A god is gods representative, whether loyal or not.
KERWINQuote A god is gods representative, whether loyal or not. what scripture make you believe this
how could someone be a representative of the truth of God by being disloyal to him
T,angels and men who are God's representatives are called gods.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,11:30) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 10 2013,05:01) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,09:44) Marty, The Koine Greek and Englis seems to loose some of the Hebrew meaning as there is only one true gods(elohim). In English we try to regain some of it by capitalization. God is God and not a god. A god is gods representative, whether loyal or not.
Hi Kerwin:He is “The God”, and for me, as a born again Christian, there is no other God period.
Satan is called the “god of this world”, but no, he is not God's representative, although God may allow him to do his thing in order to accomplish His purpose, and so, no, I don't agree with your statement, that “a god” is God's representative whether not he s loyal to God or not.
Any person or thing may be “a god” to any individual, but God's representatives, although called “gods”. They are not individually “a god”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Acts 28:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
They are speaking of Paul and Paul who earlier objected to being mistaken for a Greek God did not object this time.
Even though it is the same word it has more than one recorded meaning. Paul was seen as a great by these people who saw him escape certain death but not one to whom religious worship is due.
And so, just because these people thought he was “a god” does that mean that he in reality is “a god”? It was God who through His power delivered the Apostle Paul from death.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,06:32) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 10 2013,05:02) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,04:44) Marty, The Koine Greek and Englis seems to loose some of the Hebrew meaning as there is only one true gods(elohim). In English we try to regain some of it by capitalization. God is God and not a god. A god is gods representative, whether loyal or not.
KERWINQuote A god is gods representative, whether loyal or not. what scripture make you believe this
how could someone be a representative of the truth of God by being disloyal to him
T,angels and men who are God's representatives are called gods.
KERWINYES ,but the bad ones do not represent God almighty
Quote (2besee @ Aug. 08 2013,23:33) Abe,
I can see a connection in something:He stationed the *cherubim* and the flaming *sword* which turned every direction to guard the *way* to the *Tree* of *life*
I am the *way* the truth and the *life*. Nobody comes to the Father but through me.
Revelation 19:11 I saw the heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it is called Faithful and True. In righteousness he judges and makes war.
19:12 *His eyes are a flame of fire*, and on his head are many crowns. He has names written and a name written which no one knows but he himself.
19:15 Out of his mouth proceeds a sharp, double-edged *sword*, that with it he should strike the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He treads the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.
Hi 2b,(Quote)
I am the *way* the truth and the *life*. Nobody comes to the Father but through me.Jn.17:17 “Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.
Jn.15:26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the *Spirit of (the) truth* who comes from (of) the Father, He will testify about Me,
Jn.14:18 “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
I am the *way* the *truth* and the *life*.
Peace brother…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 09 2013,13:59) Quote (abe @ Aug. 09 2013,00:44) I think cherubim and Archangel mean the same.
I don't know that to be the case, but there doesn't seem to be any scriptural evidence prohibiting it. But should we assume things in scripture just because there is nothing explicitly prohibiting it? Or should we remain silent if the scriptures are silent about it?At any rate, let's assume you are correct for the sake of argument. That would mean that you think the “us” is God Most High and His seven archangels, right?
And in that case, your final answer would be: “The gods in 3:5 refer to God and His seven archangels”, right? In which case it is a proof of angels being called gods, right?
Correct me if I'm missing something in your interpretation.
Hi Mike,Is.11:2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him, The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and strength, The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
I think the Archangels are Sons of God. They have a Spirit.
The Archangels must have a Soul. God has a soul.
I don't think angels have souls? They cant die until the end.
Job1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
Dan.9:20 And whiles I [was] speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; 21Yea, whiles I [was] speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
even the Man Gabriel Strongs #376 Man
Adam Strongs #120
Peace brother……
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 10 2013,07:13) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,06:32) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 10 2013,05:02) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,04:44) Marty, The Koine Greek and Englis seems to loose some of the Hebrew meaning as there is only one true gods(elohim). In English we try to regain some of it by capitalization. God is God and not a god. A god is gods representative, whether loyal or not.
KERWINQuote A god is gods representative, whether loyal or not. what scripture make you believe this
how could someone be a representative of the truth of God by being disloyal to him
T,angels and men who are God's representatives are called gods.
KERWINYES ,but the bad ones do not represent God almighty
T,Yes, they do not perform the duties God gives them but instead rebel.
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 10 2013,06:57) And so, just because these people thought he was “a god” does that mean that he in reality is “a god”? It was God who through His power delivered the Apostle Paul from death. Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,They did not mistake Paul for one to be worshiped but instead saw him as a great one, which frankly he was as he was God's representative.
There is one true God, who is worthy to be worshiped. There are many gods in heaven and on earth whose job it is to represent the one true God. Those representatives are not worthy to be worshiped and the loyal ones are disgusted that anyone would think of doing so, much less do so.
god is just a word, and is used to convey different ideas according to the context and the speakers intent.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,12:02) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 10 2013,06:57) And so, just because these people thought he was “a god” does that mean that he in reality is “a god”? It was God who through His power delivered the Apostle Paul from death. Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,They did not mistake Paul for one to be worshiped but instead saw him as a great one, which frankly he was as he was God's representative.
There is one true God, who is worthy to be worshiped. There are many gods in heaven and on earth whose job it is to represent the one true God. Those representatives are not worthy to be worshiped and the loyal ones are disgusted that anyone would think of doing so, much less do so.
god is just a word, and is used to convey different ideas according to the context and the speakers intent.
KGood explanation
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 10 2013,11:23) Quote (2besee @ Aug. 09 2013,01:33) Abe,
I can see a connection in something:He stationed the *cherubim* and the flaming *sword* which turned every direction to guard the *way* to the *Tree* of *life*
I am the *way* the truth and the *life*. Nobody comes to the Father but through me.
Revelation 19:11 I saw the heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it is called Faithful and True. In righteousness he judges and makes war.
19:12 *His eyes are a flame of fire*, and on his head are many crowns. He has names written and a name written which no one knows but he himself.
19:15 Out of his mouth proceeds a sharp, double-edged *sword*, that with it he should strike the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He treads the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.
Does that connection tell you that Jesus is the cherubim who was placed at the entrance to the tree of life a long time ago?(That's not too far from the truth.)
Hi Mike.He placed the cherubim AND THE flaming sword.
Sounds like two different things to me.Quote (abe @ Aug. 09 2013,22:58) The Archangels must have a Soul. God has a soul. I don't think angels have souls? They cant die until the end.
“Arche” just means “ruler” in the case of “archangel”. How can you conclude that only the ruler-angels have souls, but the other spirit sons of God don't? That doesn't make sense to me. It would be like saying King David, as a ruler, had a soul, but the soldiers in his army did not.Quote (abe @ Aug. 09 2013,22:58) even the Man Gabriel Strongs #376 Man
#376……. “male (in contrast to woman, female)”I'm not sure of your point here. Are you implying that the angel Gabriel was really a human being? If not, what point ARE you trying to make; and what does it have to do with what we're discussing?
I'm still waiting for your DIRECT answer about Gen 3:5 and 3:22, Abe. Do you believe the gods to whom Satan referred in 3:5 are the “one of us” to whom Jehovah referred in 3:22? YES or NO?
And if so, do you believe the ones Satan called gods are archangels of Jehovah? YES or NO?
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 10 2013,00:37) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,12:02)
942767,They did not mistake Paul for one to be worshiped but instead saw him as a great one, which frankly he was as he was God's representative.
There is one true God, who is worthy to be worshiped. There are many gods in heaven and on earth whose job it is to represent the one true God. Those representatives are not worthy to be worshiped and the loyal ones are disgusted that anyone would think of doing so, much less do so.
god is just a word, and is used to convey different ideas according to the context and the speakers intent.
KGood explanation
I agree. Good job, Kerwin.Quote (2besee @ Aug. 10 2013,04:17) Hi Mike. He placed the cherubim AND THE flaming sword.
Sounds like two different things to me.
So what connection do you see?Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,17:02) “worshiped. There are many gods in heaven and on earth whose job it is to represent the one true God. Those representatives are not worthy to be worshiped and the loyal ones are disgusted that anyone would think of doing so, much less do so. god is just a word, and is used to convey different ideas according to the context and the speakers intent.
And so, when God calls his angels or his children “gods”, He is calling them such, as “His representatives”, and not “a god” to be worshipped as “God”And although God calls His representatives “gods”, He does not tell us to call His representatives “god” or “a god”, Does He?
The scriptures that you quote from the acts have no bearing on this discussion in that the people that the Apostle Paul was dealing with here were “heathen”.
Love in Christ.
MartyBut Marty,
It was the Apostle Paul who called Satan a god, right?
And Paul didn't worship Satan, right?
And Satan isn't one of God's representatives, right?
So how can Paul call Satan a god when all of your self-imagined criteria are not being met?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2013,03:38) But Marty, It was the Apostle Paul who called Satan a god, right?
And Paul didn't worship Satan, right?
And Satan isn't one of God's representatives, right?
So how can Paul call Satan a god when all of your self-imagined criteria are not being met?
Hi Mike:Satan is called “the god of this world” because, as sinners,
we all have obeyed him.But to a born again Christian, to me, he is not “a god”.
Quote Matt 4:8Again, the devil taketh him(Jesus) up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve
It is not my self imagined criteria that has not been met, anyone or anything can be “a god” to an individual, however, it would be idolatry. The discussion is was about Elohim, the God of gods and the Lord of lords, calling his representatives “god” or “gods”. But he does not tell us to call them “god” or “a god”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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