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[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 07 2013,10:27)

And this verse of scripture, the serpent is speaking to Eve, and he is correct they became “as gods knowing good and evil”, but neither one of them became “a god”.

Hi Marty,

Thanks for your answer. Your input and insight is always welcomed and considered by me.

Although in this case, I believe you are inadvertently missing the point.

My point was not to say Adam and Eve BECAME gods themselves. Instead, like you pointed out, Satan said they would become AS gods.

I want to know who these gods are that they became AS.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ Aug. 06 2013,23:32)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2013,17:26) I apologize to all for that angry outburst.  It was uncalled for, and said only out of frustration. Hi Mike, Apology accepted.

Thanks, Abe.

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 07 2013,15:13)

The bolded part is well said, Pierre. Abe, all you've done is list even more scriptures that speak of other gods, and Jehovah's instructions to the Israelites to not invoke their names like those other nations do. Jehovah didn't refute the existence of the gods of the other nations.  He just said not to call on them, bow to them, or worship them. Isn't the fact that He told His nation to worship and serve only Him as God, instead of the gods of the nations, clear proof that those other gods existed? Abe, I want an answer about who YOU think the gods in Gen 3:5 are.  I believe Satan refers to the spirit sons of God in His heavenly counsel.  We usually call these beings “angels” in English.  Do you agree with me that Satan was referring to angels/heavenly counsel in 3:5?

Hi Mike,

Gen.3:5 “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

I don't see the word gods? Go to the interlinear.

Peace brother….

[abe]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 05 2013,16:20)

Mike what puzzels me is that within abe; quote “he tells you to take your head out of your asse but he also end his quote with a peace message ;??? it looks like a guy that first slaped your face with his fist then quickly handing out his hand as a peace gesture ,WHAT A CONTRADITION IN HIS MIND

BTW, Abe was only quoting what I said.  Unfortunately, I'm the one who told them to pull their heads out of their butts.      Those were my words, not his.

I apologize to all for that angry outburst.  It was uncalled for, and said only out of frustration.

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2013,10:18)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 07 2013,10:27) And this verse of scripture, the serpent is speaking to Eve, and he is correct they became “as gods knowing good and evil”, but neither one of them became “a god”. Hi Marty, Thanks for your answer.  Your input and insight is always welcomed and considered by me. Although in this case, I believe you are inadvertently missing the point. My point was not to say Adam and Eve BECAME gods themselves.  Instead, like you pointed out, Satan said they would become AS gods. I want to know who these gods are that they became AS.

Good luck in your search in finding who these gods that they would be like. Let me know when you find them.

God made man in His own image?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2013,04:50)

Quote (abe @ Aug. 05 2013,01:57) Hi Mike, (Quote) My God, people!  Pull your heads out of your asses and pay attention to the scriptures! “You must be Born from Above.” Peace brother…….. It gets so frustrating, Pierre!    It's like these guys grew up during the time that everyone was convinced the earth was flat, and that lie sunk deep into their heads from a young age.  And then, in their older age, it was discovered that the earth was round, and not flat.  And despite all the clear and undeniable evidence that the earth is round, they keep insisting it is flat anyway – because that is what they grew up believing, and it is now so hard-wired into their brains that when they are shown the truth of the matter, they refuse to accept it.   I'm going to try one more time slowly for them.  How much you want to bet that none of them even addresses my coming points with direct response?   Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Who are those gods, Abe?  Gene?  Marty?  Kerwin?  Eddy?

Mike,

Jehovah is a gods.
The rests,human or not, are merely gods.
Some peoples worship a god or multiple gods as a gods.
Hera is the goddess of woman and marriage while Jehovah is the god of that and all other good things.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 07 2013,12:39)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 06 2013,16:08) Hi Mike, 1.  The Hebrew word is אֱלֹהִים EL-o-heem, not gods; you are trying to back-translate English to Hebrew again. 2.  I believe EL-o-heem in this instance means THE ANGELS. 1.  Stop with that nonsense, Ed.  If I'm “back-translating” gods into Genesis 3:5, then aren't you also “back-translating” God into any verse that calls Jehovah a god?    Your precious AKJV is the Bible I quoted.  And they FORWARD-TRANSLATED that instance of “elohim” as “gods”, didn't they?  (1A)Are you saying your AKJV is WRONG once again? 2.  Absolutely it refers to the hosts of heaven, otherwise known by us who speak English as “angels”.  (2A)And since you admit angels are also real, live elohim, then you must realize that Jehovah can't possibly LITERALLY be the ONLY elohim.  (2B)You can play translation games if you want, Ed.  But don't ever fault me for calling a spade a spade……….. ESPECIALLY when it comes to believing exactly what the scriptures teach me.  (2C)Jehovah is only the Most High Elohim because there exist other, less high elohim.  (2D)Jehovah is only the Elohim of elohim because there exist other elohim for Him to be the Elohim of. End of story.

Hi Mike,

1. JEHOVAH is never called 'a god' as there is NO indefinite article in Hebrew or Greek, that would be another attempt at back-translating.
    EL-o-heem forward-translates to English as one of the following:  (which one depends on the context)

                 1. GOD
                 2. Angels
                 3. Leaders
                 4. Magistrates  

  1A) What I'm saying is: you are taking license to back-translate because of this.

2. Yes, I agree.     …and that's definition #2 (by the way)

  2A) Yes I agree – because EL-o-heem foward-translates also to English as Angels, Leaders, &  Magistrates.
  2B) Man had a part in your teaching.   (<– calling a spade, a spade)
  3C) Yes, but there are no other 'gods' (high or otherwize)
         only other “EL-o-heem”!  (and what it is translated to depends on the context)
  3D) But JEHOVAH is the only “GOD” as there are no other 'gods'.

End of story.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 07 2013,12:26)

Eddy's been falling hard since I've known him.    But I still love him.

Falling?  Falling how?

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 09 2013,01:15)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 07 2013,12:26) Eddy's been falling hard since I've known him.    But I still love him. Falling?  Falling how?

so softly you did even not felt it

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ Aug. 07 2013,20:27)

Hi Mike, Gen.3:5   “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” I don't see the word gods? Go to the interlinear.

I'm well aware that the word “elohim” in 3:5 could be translated as “God” or as “gods”.  But which one of those two translations aligns with the corresponding statement in verse 22?

The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 08 2013,08:40)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2013,10:18) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 07 2013,10:27) And this verse of scripture, the serpent is speaking to Eve, and he is correct they became “as gods knowing good and evil”, but neither one of them became “a god”. Hi Marty, Thanks for your answer.  Your input and insight is always welcomed and considered by me. Although in this case, I believe you are inadvertently missing the point. My point was not to say Adam and Eve BECAME gods themselves.  Instead, like you pointed out, Satan said they would become AS gods. I want to know who these gods are that they became AS. Good luck in your search in finding who these gods that they would be like.  Let me know when you find them. God made man in His own image? Love in Christ, Marty

I already know who they are, Marty.  They were the spirit sons of God.  His divine counsel.  We call them “angels”, but they are called “the hosts of heaven” and “gods” in scripture.

Some of them rebelled and are known as “Satan and his demons”.  Their ruler Satan is called a god in scripture by Jehovah and by Paul.

Marty, didn't God say, “Let us make man in OUR image and OUR likeness”?

I posit that God first made His spirit sons in His own image, and then made us in that same image.  So while we were made in the image of God, His spirit sons were made in that image way before we were.  In that way, God could sensibly speak to those spirit sons and say, “Let us make man in OUR image”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 08 2013,13:14)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 07 2013,12:39) (2A)And since you admit angels are also real, live elohim, then you must realize that Jehovah can't possibly LITERALLY be the ONLY elohim.   2. Yes, I agree.

Enough said. So when Jehovah said He was the ONLY elohim, He must have been emphasizing His own position of being much higher than the many other elohim.

Much like when He said there was no savior besides Him.

(BTW, your AKJV calls Jehovah “a god” many times. Were they WRONG once again for “back-translating”? Ed, this point of yours is so below common sense that it doesn't deserve any further responses from me.)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 08 2013,11:35)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2013,04:50) Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Who are those gods? Mike, Jehovah is a gods. The rests,human or not, are merely gods. Some peoples worship a god or multiple gods as a gods. Hera is the goddess of woman and marriage while Jehovah is the god of that and all other good things.

Kerwin,

I have no idea what you even said in that response. But I'm quite sure it didn't directly answer my question.

I believe those gods were what we usually call “angels”. Do you agree?

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2013,16:40)

Quote (abe @ Aug. 07 2013,20:27) Hi Mike, Gen.3:5   “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” I don't see the word gods? Go to the interlinear. I'm well aware that the word “elohim” in 3:5 could be translated as “God” or as “gods”.  But which one of those two translations aligns with the corresponding statement in verse 22? The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

Hi Mike,

Gen.3:22   Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”– 23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

He stationed the *cherubim* and the flaming *sword* which turned every direction to guard the *way* to the *Tree* of *life*

Rev.1:4   John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come,   and   from the  Seven Spirits  who are before(in the eyes of) His throne,

I think cherubim and Archangel mean the same.

Archangel

Arch

757. archó  Word Origin

a prim. verb
Definition
to rule, to begin
NASB Translation
began (62), begin (7), beginning (8), begins (2), begun (1), proceed (1), rule (1), rulers (1), starting (2)

*Seven Beginning Angels.*

Gen.1:26   Then God said, “Let  *Us*  make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Col.1:15   who(Son) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
16  for In him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto(in) him;
17  and he is before all things, and  In  him all things consist.

who(Son) is the Image of the  Invisible  God, the Firstborn of all Creation;

Gen.1:1   In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Peace brother..

[2besee]

Abe,
I can see a connection in something:

He stationed the *cherubim* and the flaming *sword* which turned every direction to guard the *way* to the *Tree* of *life*

I am the *way* the truth and the *life*. Nobody comes to the Father but through me.

Revelation  19:11 I saw the heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it is called Faithful and True. In righteousness he judges and makes war.
 19:12 *His eyes are a flame of fire*, and on his head are many crowns. He has names written and a name written which no one knows but he himself.
19:15 Out of his mouth proceeds a sharp, double-edged *sword*, that with it he should strike the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He treads the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 09 2013,11:45)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 08 2013,08:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2013, 10:18) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 07 2013,10:27) And this verse of scripture, the serpent is speaking to Eve, and he is correct they became “as gods knowing good and evil”, but neither one of them became “a god”. Hi Marty, Thanks for your answer.  Your input and insight is always welcomed and considered by me. Although in this case, I believe you are inadvertently missing the point. My point was not to say Adam and Eve BECAME gods themselves.  Instead, like you pointed out, Satan said they would become AS gods. I want to know who these gods are that they became AS. Good luck in your search in finding who these gods that they would be like.  Let me know when you find them. God made man in His own image? Love in Christ, Marty I already know who they are, Marty.  They were the spirit sons of God.  His divine counsel.  We call them “angels”, but they are called “the hosts of heaven” and “gods” in scripture. Some of them rebelled and are known as “Satan and his demons”.  Their ruler Satan is called a god in scripture by Jehovah and by Paul. Marty, didn't God say, “Let us make man in OUR image and OUR likeness”? I posit that God first made His spirit sons in His own image, and then made us in that same image.  So while we were made in the image of God, His spirit sons were made in that image way before we were.  In that way, God could sensibly speak to those spirit sons and say, “Let us make man in OUR image”.

Yes, Mike, God was speaking to the angels when He said “let us make man in our image”, but to be in God's image means to “be like God”. There is “Only one God”.

Satan wants to be worshipped as God, and he is “a god” to those who obey him, but for us, as born again Christians, there is “only One God”.

And it is very important that we understand this when we are preaching the gospel to Jews. There is no way that they are going to believe that Jesus is God or that he is “a god”, and so, it has to do with their salvation.

I don't know if you have had time to watch the Youtube that I posted.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[kerwin]

Marty,

All I know is that Scripture calls both angels and man god. God is sometimes called elohim(gods) as are those others hold equivalent to him.

I also know that angels were present when gods stated “let us make man in our image, and our likeness” and some angels bear the outer likeness of mankind.

[942767]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2013,05:08)

Marty, All I know is that Scripture calls both angels and man god.  God is  sometimes called elohim(gods) as are those others hold equivalent to him. I also know that angels were present when gods stated “let us make man in our image, and our likeness” and some angels bear the outer likeness of mankind.

Hi Kerwin:

Yes, Elohim is the God of gods, and he calls his representatives gods as his representatives.  In Philippians 2 Jesus is said to be “in the form of God”, or in Hebrews 1 he is said to be “the express image of Gods person”.

But no, Jesus never claimed to be God or “a god”.

What he did say is:

Jhn 17:1 ¶ These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:  

Jhn 17:2   As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.  

Jhn 17:3   And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Love in Christ,
arty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ Aug. 09 2013,00:44)

I think cherubim and Archangel mean the same.

I don't know that to be the case, but there doesn't seem to be any scriptural evidence prohibiting it. But should we assume things in scripture just because there is nothing explicitly prohibiting it? Or should we remain silent if the scriptures are silent about it?

At any rate, let's assume you are correct for the sake of argument. That would mean that you think the “us” is God Most High and His seven archangels, right?

And in that case, your final answer would be: “The gods in 3:5 refer to God and His seven archangels”, right? In which case it is a proof of angels being called gods, right?

Correct me if I'm missing something in your interpretation.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 09 2013,11:06)

Yes, Mike, God was speaking to the angels when He said “let us make man in our image”………

Okay Marty.  And when Satan told Eve they would become “as gods”, and then Jehovah said, “they have become as one of us“, what are we to think?

If we approach it like we've never read the Bible before, and haven't already had our heads filled with false teachings from the men who came before us, we would, without a doubt, understand that the “gods” in 3:5 are one and the same as the “one of us” in 3:22.  And if the “us” is angels, as you've sensibly concluded, then these same angels are referred to as “gods” in 3:5.

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 09 2013,11:06)

Satan wants to be worshipped as God, and he is “a god” to those who obey him………

Yet it was Paul who said he was the god of this world/age, right?  Do you suppose Paul worships and obeys Satan, and that's why he called him a god?

Do you see the flaw in that reasoning?  The truth is that Satan is a god, whether or not we worship and obey him.  That is why Paul was able to call a spade a spade concerning Satan being a god – even though Paul DOESN'T worship or obey him as HIS OWN god.

That is also why Paul is able to say that for us there is but one God, the Father.  He is not saying the Father is literally the ONLY god in existence.  He is saying that the Father is OUR God – the one WE worship and serve………….. even though there truly exist many gods in heaven and on earth.

Marty, I appreciate the recent communication we've been having on this subject.  (That goes also for Abe.)  It's nice to at least DISCUSS it and CONSIDER the scriptures that cause me to believe the way I do. Thanks for taking the time to listen to my side of the argument.  

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