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[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,23:04)

T, I am just trying to understand on which point you disagree with me. Some that could believe bear bad fruit because of their ignorance and those that are not mature in Christ bear bad fruit because of their incomplete faith.  The people of Sodom did not adhere to the Law of Noah and thus showed their faith was dead.

k

WAS THERE SOMETHING IN MY PREVIOUS POST THAT YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND

[mikeboll64]

Eddy? Page 90?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 08 2013,10:51)

Eddy?  Page 90?

OK, you ready now?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,07:41)

Quote (Ed J @ July 03 2013,07:31) Now as far as the term gods in Deut.32:17, this refers to devils (used earlier in same verse) I do not consider fallen Angels to be gods. (A)Shall we not accept scripture until we've checked with you to see what you consider to be true or false? (B)Sorry Ed, but it doesn't matter one bit what YOU personally think about it, because the scriptural FACT of the matter is that Moses, the man of God, called demons gods. (C)You need to either adjust your understanding of scripture to include this fact, or continue living in denial.

Hi Mike,

A) No we should examine Scripture in light of all other Scripture.
B) WRONG! Moshe called demons “EL-o-heem” which translates to English as one of the following:  
(which one depends on the context) (Demons are fallen Angels, and that my friend is definition #2)

1. GOD
2. Angels
3. Leaders
4. Magistrates

C) Fits perfectly with my understanding.

D) But you need to fit Isaiah 45:21 into your understanding, because currently you have no room for it.  
    “there is no God else beside me”         (<– this is definition #1 of EL-o-heem)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,07:48)

1.  Why are you even talking about Baal?  He wasn't mentioned in the scripture we're discussing, was he? 2.  The word “baal” just means “master”, and there were many of them.  For example, Baalzebul, also known as Satan, was the god of Ekron.  And Satan is by no means a “false god”.  For one, his powers are very real.  And for another, he is called god in scripture, but never “false god”.

Hi Mike,

1) NO, but the 'false god' molech is inferred as “a new god”, which they sacrificed to. (see Lev.18:21)

2) Those are more examples of other false EL-o-heem.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,07:52)

Quote (Ed J @ July 03 2013,07:53) Moshe used the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”, NOT THE ENGLISH WORD gods. So it is YOU that I disagree with, not Moses. So then you disagree with me and your precious AKJV, right?   Okay.  What English word would you use for “elohim” in Deuteronomy 32:17? (2)Deuteronomy 32:17 ◦King James Version They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to ____ whom they knew not……… Fill in the blank, Ed.

Hi Mike,

1) NO, what I disagree with is YOUR understanding.

2) They put 'gods' there – because some were demons and some were false gods.

“They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not,
 to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.” (Deut 32:17)

“A New god”(=69) means 'FALSE GOD”(=69)!
JEHOVAH(=69) (YHVH=63) is our ONLY “EL-o-heem”(63)

Ed (witness)

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,07:56)

Quote (Ed J @ July 03 2013,08:32) There are no other gods Pierre! “there is no God else beside me;” (Isaiah 45:21) Exodus 12:12 “On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD.” Does Jehovah contradict Himself, Ed?  Or is somebody misunderstanding His EMPHATIC statement in Isaiah 45:21?

Hi Mike,

NO, it is you who is misunderstanding. They are all 'IDOLS' – not gods! 'IDOLS' are 'false EL-o-heem'!

“For all the gods(EL-o-heem) of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.” (Psalms 96:5)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Will you just continue to let THE FACTS go in one ear and out the other in order to keep your outdated understanding alive?

“Don't bother me with THE FACTS because I already got my mind made up”  –  the ignorant!

[terraricca]

edj

Quote

D) But you need to fit Isaiah 45:21 into your understanding, because currently you have no room for it. “there is no God else beside me” (<– this is definition #1 of EL-o-heem)

but scriptures says that God almighty is the God of gods (almighty one of all mighty ones )just as it say ;there is no Almighty one beside me ;

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ July 08 2013,23:02)

edj Quote D) But you need to fit Isaiah 45:21 into your understanding, because currently you have no room for it.      “there is no God else beside me”         (<– this is definition #1 of EL-o-heem) but scriptures says that God almighty is the God of gods (almighty one of all mighty ones )just as it say ;there is no Almighty one beside me ;

Hi Pierre,

We already know that YOU can justify YOUR beliefs to YOURSELF.
Atheists do it, islamists do it, murder's do it, rapists do it. But
if you ever hope to convince other Christians of your views,
what you say has to line up with the bible as a whole.
And what you present falls far short of the truth.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ July 08 2013,18:16)

Quote (terraricca @ July 08 2013,23:02) edj Quote D) But you need to fit Isaiah 45:21 into your understanding, because currently you have no room for it.      “there is no God else beside me”         (<– this is definition #1 of EL-o-heem) but scriptures says that God almighty is the God of gods (almighty one of all mighty ones )just as it say ;there is no Almighty one beside me ; Hi Pierre, We already know that YOU can justify YOUR beliefs to YOURSELF. Atheists do it, islamists do it, murder's do it, rapists do it. But if you ever hope to convince other Christians of your views, what you say has to line up with the bible as a whole. And what you present falls far short of the truth. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

you have to fight the scriptures not me ,it is the scriptures that says that “God his the God of gods “

and it is here that your interpretation begins because it does not fit your views or opinions .

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ July 08 2013,04:40)

Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,23:04) T, I am just trying to understand on which point you disagree with me. Some that could believe bear bad fruit because of their ignorance and those that are not mature in Christ bear bad fruit because of their incomplete faith.  The people of Sodom did not adhere to the Law of Noah and thus showed their faith was dead. k WAS THERE SOMETHING IN MY PREVIOUS POST THAT YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND

T,

Yes, but I made a guess.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 08 2013,01:34)

Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2013,12:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2013,20:36) Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,12:23) El, who archaeologist claim is the most high God of the Canaanites. Kerwin, Your own source said that the el of the Canaanites had Asherah as his wife.  Does that sound like Jehovah to you? Mike, That is the teaching of heretics but the God of the Baptists is the same God of the Jehovah Witnesses. He is also the God of Satan and his demons. Our discussion was about the Canaanites RECOGNIZING Jehovah as their El.  And apparently, even though Jehovah IS the God of EVERYONE, the El that the Canaanites worshiped as their God had a wife named Asherah. I have yet to see a scripture that says any Canaanite worshiped and served Jehovah as their God and creator.

Mike,

Abraham and the Canaanites called Jehovah El(God) just like the Baptist and the Jehovah Witnesses call him God.  

Abram's words to the King of Sodom were “And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto Jehovah, the most high EL, the possessor of heaven and earth,”.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 08 2013,01:41)

Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2013,13:37) Almighty mighty is what Mike believes El Shaddai means. It was the translators of the LXX – 70 scholars who spoke fluent Greek and fluent Hebrew, and who lived much closer to the time the OT was written – who translated shaddai as “almighty”. In the early church, when disagreements over translation would arise, it was always settled by the LXX.  If there was a disagreement, they would see what the LXX said, and considered it the final answer on the subject. Also, in the NT, Jesus and his disciples quoted the LXX version of the OT 67% of the time.  That is twice as often as they quoted the Hebrew version. So if the LXX renders shaddai as almighty, who am I to question it? And that would make the translation literally mean:  Jehovah, the Almighty mighty one………. ie: “the MOST mighty of all the mighty ones”.  Do you see a problem with that understanding?

Mile,

As far as I know shaddai is not a variation of El nor do the I believe the LXX translators translated El as Might.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ July 08 2013,22:07)

Quote (terraricca @ July 08 2013,04:40) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,23:04) T, I am just trying to understand on which point you disagree with me. Some that could believe bear bad fruit because of their ignorance and those that are not mature in Christ bear bad fruit because of their incomplete faith.  The people of Sodom did not adhere to the Law of Noah and thus showed their faith was dead. k WAS THERE SOMETHING IN MY PREVIOUS POST THAT YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND   T, Yes,  but I made a guess.

K

what was it you could not understand

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,11:31)

Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,10:20) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,05:53) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,05:22) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,05:09) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,00:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2013,20:36) Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,12:23) El, who archaeologist claim is the most high God of the Canaanites. Kerwin, Your own source said that the el of the Canaanites had Asherah as his wife.  Does that sound like Jehovah to you? Mike, That is the teaching of heretics but the God of the Baptists is the same God of the Jehovah Witnesses. K what is this suppose to mean T, It is pointing out that even though the teachings of the Canaanites were different that Abraham's they both had the same most high God.  Baptist's believe God is three person while Jehovah's Witnesses believe he is one person and yet they are speaking of the same most high God that Abraham spoke of to the king of Sodom. K there is ONLY ONE ALMIGHTY GOD THAT IS CALLED JEHOVAH AND THAT HAS A SON CALLED THE WORD ” AND ALSO CALLED JESUS THE CHRIST ,I WOULD SAY THAT ALL ARE KNOWN TO HAVE HEARD OF THAT GOD SOME HOW , BUT YOU CAN NOT WORSHIP A GOD THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW ,AND THE LAW WAS A COVENANT WITH HIM SO THAT BY OBEYING YOU FULFILL YOUR OBLIGATION OF THAT COVENANT , SINS CHRIST WHO WAS A PART OF AN NEW COVENANT OPEN TO ALL ;BUT AGAIN UNLESS YOU ARE FULFILLING THE OBLIGATION OF THAT COVENANT YOU ARE NOT ONE OF HIS . AND SO CAN NOT CLAIM THAT YOU HAVE THE FAITH ,WE KNOW MANY CLAIM THAT BUT GOD KNOWS WHO IS HIS   SO I DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THIS POINT BECAUSE WE DO NOT KNOW WHO IS AND WHO IS NOT APPROVED BY GOD , WE ALL STAND BEFORE GOD'S THRONE AND INTO JUDGEMENT , T, Are you claiming that the God of the Baptist is not the God of the Jehovah Witnesses? K I do not claim that ,but what I find in scriptures is that if you serve God you have to do it directly with him ,wen you using religion as an in between ,you have cut your self off from God ,because your religion is now the spoke person between you and God ,is this what God ask NO, Many will come in the name of Christ ,but do we have to follow them NO,says scriptures , Also remember that under the law the Jews ad to make offerings for their sins but it as to be a pure animal free from defects ,but many offert bad animals sick,and defects on them,they also thought God would not notice it, Same sins Christ if your faith is shared with other things or restricted by you,this scriptures says will not be good for you,God want all of you not a part , Love your God with all your heart,all your mind ,all your strength and all your soul, So what is left for you The love for God ,

T,

Where you disagreed with me here.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ July 09 2013,02:03)

Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,11:31) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,10:20) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,05:53) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,05:22) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,05:09) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,00:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2013,20:36) Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,12:23) El, who archaeologist claim is the most high God of the Canaanites. Kerwin, Your own source said that the el of the Canaanites had Asherah as his wife.  Does that sound like Jehovah to you? Mike, That is the teaching of heretics but the God of the Baptists is the same God of the Jehovah Witnesses. K what is this suppose to mean T, It is pointing out that even though the teachings of the Canaanites were different that Abraham's they both had the same most high God.  Baptist's believe God is three person while Jehovah's Witnesses believe he is one person and yet they are speaking of the same most high God that Abraham spoke of to the king of Sodom. K there is ONLY ONE ALMIGHTY GOD THAT IS CALLED JEHOVAH AND THAT HAS A SON CALLED THE WORD ” AND ALSO CALLED JESUS THE CHRIST ,I WOULD SAY THAT ALL ARE KNOWN TO HAVE HEARD OF THAT GOD SOME HOW , BUT YOU CAN NOT WORSHIP A GOD THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW ,AND THE LAW WAS A COVENANT WITH HIM SO THAT BY OBEYING YOU FULFILL YOUR OBLIGATION OF THAT COVENANT , SINS CHRIST WHO WAS A PART OF AN NEW COVENANT OPEN TO ALL ;BUT AGAIN UNLESS YOU ARE FULFILLING THE OBLIGATION OF THAT COVENANT YOU ARE NOT ONE OF HIS . AND SO CAN NOT CLAIM THAT YOU HAVE THE FAITH ,WE KNOW MANY CLAIM THAT BUT GOD KNOWS WHO IS HIS   SO I DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THIS POINT BECAUSE WE DO NOT KNOW WHO IS AND WHO IS NOT APPROVED BY GOD , WE ALL STAND BEFORE GOD'S THRONE AND INTO JUDGEMENT , T, Are you claiming that the God of the Baptist is not the God of the Jehovah Witnesses? K I do not claim that ,but what I find in scriptures is that if you serve God you have to do it directly with him ,wen you using religion as an in between ,you have cut your self off from God ,because your religion is now the spoke person between you and God ,is this what God ask NO, Many will come in the name of Christ ,but do we have to follow them NO,says scriptures , Also remember that under the law the Jews ad to make offerings for their sins but it as to be a pure animal free from defects ,but many offert bad animals sick,and defects on them,they also thought God would not notice it, Same sins Christ if your faith is shared with other things or restricted by you,this scriptures says will not be good for you,God want all of you not a part , Love your God with all your heart,all your mind ,all your strength and all your soul, So what is left for you The love for God , T, Where you disagreed with me here.

K

you say if i understand it ;that all men have the same God ;right this is so far true ;because their is only one almighty God that did all creation,

but not all men worship that God and so are also rejected by that God ,

if we do not want Jehovah God to be our God then he will not be our God by our own choice ,

understand this; the fact that we are alive now means that God as approved our right to live ,but this does not mean that we will be save and received eternal life ,those are two different things ,but the first one allows for the second one ,

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2013,03:06)

Quote (kerwin @ July 09 2013,02:03) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,11:31) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,10:20) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,05:53) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,05:22) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,05:09) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,00:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2013,20:36) Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,12:23) El, who archaeologist claim is the most high God of the Canaanites. Kerwin, Your own source said that the el of the Canaanites had Asherah as his wife.  Does that sound like Jehovah to you? Mike, That is the teaching of heretics but the God of the Baptists is the same God of the Jehovah Witnesses. K what is this suppose to mean T, It is pointing out that even though the teachings of the Canaanites were different that Abraham's they both had the same most high God.  Baptist's believe God is three person while Jehovah's Witnesses believe he is one person and yet they are speaking of the same most high God that Abraham spoke of to the king of Sodom. K there is ONLY ONE ALMIGHTY GOD THAT IS CALLED JEHOVAH AND THAT HAS A SON CALLED THE WORD ” AND ALSO CALLED JESUS THE CHRIST ,I WOULD SAY THAT ALL ARE KNOWN TO HAVE HEARD OF THAT GOD SOME HOW , BUT YOU CAN NOT WORSHIP A GOD THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW ,AND THE LAW WAS A COVENANT WITH HIM SO THAT BY OBEYING YOU FULFILL YOUR OBLIGATION OF THAT COVENANT , SINS CHRIST WHO WAS A PART OF AN NEW COVENANT OPEN TO ALL ;BUT AGAIN UNLESS YOU ARE FULFILLING THE OBLIGATION OF THAT COVENANT YOU ARE NOT ONE OF HIS . AND SO CAN NOT CLAIM THAT YOU HAVE THE FAITH ,WE KNOW MANY CLAIM THAT BUT GOD KNOWS WHO IS HIS   SO I DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THIS POINT BECAUSE WE DO NOT KNOW WHO IS AND WHO IS NOT APPROVED BY GOD , WE ALL STAND BEFORE GOD'S THRONE AND INTO JUDGEMENT , T, Are you claiming that the God of the Baptist is not the God of the Jehovah Witnesses? K I do not claim that ,but what I find in scriptures is that if you serve God you have to do it directly with him ,wen you using religion as an in between ,you have cut your self off from God ,because your religion is now the spoke person between you and God ,is this what God ask NO, Many will come in the name of Christ ,but do we have to follow them NO,says scriptures , Also remember that under the law the Jews ad to make offerings for their sins but it as to be a pure animal free from defects ,but many offert bad animals sick,and defects on them,they also thought God would not notice it, Same sins Christ if your faith is shared with other things or restricted by you,this scriptures says will not be good for you,God want all of you not a part , Love your God with all your heart,all your mind ,all your strength and all your soul, So what is left for you The love for God , T, Where you disagreed with me here. K you say if i understand it ;that all men have the same God ;right this is so far true ;because their is only one almighty God that did all creation, but not all men worship that God and so are also rejected by that God , if we do not want Jehovah God to be our God then he will not be our God by our own choice , understand this; the fact that we are alive now means that God as approved our right to live ,but this does not mean that we will be save and received eternal life ,those are two different things ,but the first one allows for the second one ,

T,

I am stating that the Canaanites worshiped Jehovah. I believe they also worshiped other gods in their ignorance but Jehovah was their most high god. They called him God, but in their language, even as many do today.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ July 08 2013,11:29)

Mike, Abraham and the Canaanites called Jehovah El(God) just like the Baptist and the Jehovah Witnesses call him God.   Abram's words to the King of Sodom were “And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto Jehovah, the most high EL, the possessor of heaven and earth,”.

So Abram called him YHWH in front of the king of Sodom.  How does that equate to the king of Sodom worshiping YHWH as HIS El?

Is there a scripture where any Canaanite speaks of THEIR OWN El, who is named YHWH?

If so, show it to me.

And I really don't know how many more times I have to say it, but……………

The El that the Canaanites worshiped had a WIFE named Asherah. Does that sound like JEHOVAH to you, Kerwin?

Just because they also called their god “El” does NOT mean they were worshipping YHWH. Do you understand this?

[terraricca]

Kerwin

Quote

T, I am stating that the Canaanites worshiped Jehovah. I believe they also worshiped other gods in their ignorance but Jehovah was their most high god. They called him God, but in their language, even as many do today.

show me scriptures that says this ,as you claim it ; do not be like the Muslims that says they also worship the only God because their Allah his the only God ;this is ridicule thinking,naive ,EITHER YOU WORSHIP THE GOD OF CREATION BY DOING HIS WILL OR YOU WORSHIPING ALLAH AND WORSHIP HIM AS HE ASK ,BUT THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT GODS WITH VERY DIFFERENT REQUESTING WAYS OF WORSHIP,

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