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Quote (terraricca @ July 06 2013,01:58) Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2013,00:27) Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,09:49) Quote (kerwin @ July 04 2013,07:54) Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,06:37) Quote (kerwin @ July 04 2013,03:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,02:35) I don't know, Kerwin. Read Genesis 24:1-4. At this time, even Abraham didn't know Jehovah AS “Jehovah”. (God told Moses they knew Him by “God Almighty”, but did not know Him by His name “Jehovah”.) But the point is that Abraham was the one person out of the world that Jehovah produced HIS nation from. All people (including Abraham) had other gods up until the point Jehovah came to Abraham, and explained to him that He alone was the God who created all things, and that He would make nations for Himself out of that one man.
And even that early on in God's own nation, Abraham did not want Isaac to marry a Canaanite woman. Why not? If they were also worshippers of Jehovah, Abraham's God, then why not?
Do you have scriptural evidence that any Canaanite ever worshipped Jehovah?
Mike,Noah and his sons worshiped Jehovah and the Canaanites descended from them. The Canaanites called Jehovah El. Polytheism arose as Noah's descendents chose the heresy of worshiping angels and other things. Monotheism comes fist not polytheism.
Even if Abraham did not know Jehovah by the name Jehovah he expected the king of Sodom to know who he was speaking of. The king may well have worshiped angels as well.
KerwinQuote Noah and his sons worshiped Jehovah and the Canaanites descended from them so are we
and we are not Canaanites or are we 
where are you going with this type of answers
?
T,El Shaddai is Jehovah and was worshiped by various sects of the peoples of Canaan. The Jews and some Christians acknowledge El Shaddai is a name of Jehovah but Mike has trouble believing it.
KerwinContents ;
1 Shaddai as a theonym
1.1 Shaddai meaning destroyer
1.2 Shaddai meaning fertility
1.3 Shaddai meaning sustainer and destroyer
2 Shaddai as a toponym
3 Shaddai in the Midrash
4 Biblical translations
5 Referenceswitch one should I take as the true meaning
and are you talking before of the invasion of the Israelites in the promised land of Canaan
or after it seems you are lost in time but not sure
T,I am speaking of the time before Israel entered Egypt.
Shaddai meaning sustainer and destroyer is probably correct as Jehovah is both.
KShaddai,mean many things as we have notice ,but understand that the three son of Noah separated when his grand son Nimrod became an hunter against God and god confuse them all except his son Sem descendants ,but all until then knew and so well informed of what ad appen in the flood ,prior to the flood ,
so that name “Shaddai ” stands for no more than a name or a qualifier that's all
because all knew God and so ad a name for Him ;this does not mean that they worship God in truth with their mind,heart and actions ,
this will go no were Kerwin
T,Many were heretics in the time of Abram. For example, Sodom was destroyed for it lack of faith even though they acknowledged Jehovah. By the time Moses led the Israelites into Canaan the worship of Baal came to be common. Even some, like Baalam, who still worshiped Jehovah also worshiped Baal.
K
Sodom was not destroyed because of the lack of faith ,it was for their love of corruption ,and so it will be of all men .
Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,12:23) El, who archaeologist claim is the most high God of the Canaanites.
Kerwin,Your own source said that the el of the Canaanites had Asherah as his wife. Does that sound like Jehovah to you?
K
when are you going to give up in trying to make the scriptures look like they are NOT AUTHENTIC AND SO NOT THE WORD OF GOD
AFTER 52 YEARS I CAN TELL YOU YOU WILL LOSE THAT ARGUMENT ,Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2013,20:36) Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,12:23) El, who archaeologist claim is the most high God of the Canaanites.
Kerwin,Your own source said that the el of the Canaanites had Asherah as his wife. Does that sound like Jehovah to you?
Mike,That is the teaching of heretics but the God of the Baptists is the same God of the Jehovah Witnesses.
Quote (terraricca @ July 06 2013,10:11) K Sodom was not destroyed because of the lack of faith ,it was for their love of corruption ,and so it will be of all men .
T,By their fruit you will know them. Does Sodom's fruit testify they were believers or non-believers?
Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,00:40) K when are you going to give up in trying to make the scriptures look like they are NOT AUTHENTIC AND SO NOT THE WORD OF GOD
AFTER 52 YEARS I CAN TELL YOU YOU WILL LOSE THAT ARGUMENT ,
T,I am just pointing out that the true faith was corrupted by the ignorant and corrupt from the time of Noah to the time of Mosses while Israel's descendents remained true to the uncorrupted teachings. The same has happened from the time of Jesus up to this day.
As a side point El is a synonym of God. It is used just as we use God today. Almighty mighty is what Mike believes El Shaddai means.
Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,00:46) Quote (terraricca @ July 06 2013,10:11) K Sodom was not destroyed because of the lack of faith ,it was for their love of corruption ,and so it will be of all men .
T,By their fruit you will know them. Does Sodom's fruit testify they were believers or non-believers?
kQuote Does Sodom's fruit testify they were believers or non-believers? SO TAKING NOTICE OF YOUR REMARK ,I MUST BELIEVE THAT YOU TREATING THE WORLD TODAY IN THE SAME WAY ,ALL WHO BELIEVE PRODUCES THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD ,THIS WILL MAKE IT VERY FEW THAT WILL BE SAVED ,SINS SELF PROCLAIM CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS ARE EVERYWHERE ,
AND SO ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART ,BUT MEN CAN EAR AND SEE WHAT IS DONE AND SAID RIGHT .???
Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,03:45) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,00:46) Quote (terraricca @ July 06 2013,10:11) K Sodom was not destroyed because of the lack of faith ,it was for their love of corruption ,and so it will be of all men .
T,By their fruit you will know them. Does Sodom's fruit testify they were believers or non-believers?
kQuote Does Sodom's fruit testify they were believers or non-believers? SO TAKING NOTICE OF YOUR REMARK ,I MUST BELIEVE THAT YOU TREATING THE WORLD TODAY IN THE SAME WAY ,ALL WHO BELIEVE PRODUCES THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD ,THIS WILL MAKE IT VERY FEW THAT WILL BE SAVED ,SINS SELF PROCLAIM CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS ARE EVERYWHERE ,
AND SO ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART ,BUT MEN CAN EAR AND SEE WHAT IS DONE AND SAID RIGHT .???
T,Why do you think Jesus, when speaking to those who with their mouth confessed him as Lord, said:
Matthew 22:14
King James Version (KJV)14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
At that time the tree was green.
Luke 23:31
King James Version (KJV)31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
Yes, “MEN CAN EAR AND SEE WHAT IS DONE AND SAID RIGHT .”
Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,01:37) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,00:40) K when are you going to give up in trying to make the scriptures look like they are NOT AUTHENTIC AND SO NOT THE WORD OF GOD
AFTER 52 YEARS I CAN TELL YOU YOU WILL LOSE THAT ARGUMENT ,
T,I am just pointing out that the true faith was corrupted by the ignorant and corrupt from the time of Noah to the time of Mosses while Israel's descendents remained true to the uncorrupted teachings. The same has happened from the time of Jesus up to this day.
As a side point El is a synonym of God. It is used just as we use God today. Almighty mighty is what Mike believes El Shaddai means.
Kthere was no true faith until Christ ,even the Jews with the law it was not true faith ,of cause their were people that had true faith like Noah,Abraham,Isaac,Jacobs,just to name a few ,
faith imply more than just believe
Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,04:18) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,03:45) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,00:46) Quote (terraricca @ July 06 2013,10:11) K Sodom was not destroyed because of the lack of faith ,it was for their love of corruption ,and so it will be of all men .
T,By their fruit you will know them. Does Sodom's fruit testify they were believers or non-believers?
kQuote Does Sodom's fruit testify they were believers or non-believers? SO TAKING NOTICE OF YOUR REMARK ,I MUST BELIEVE THAT YOU TREATING THE WORLD TODAY IN THE SAME WAY ,ALL WHO BELIEVE PRODUCES THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD ,THIS WILL MAKE IT VERY FEW THAT WILL BE SAVED ,SINS SELF PROCLAIM CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS ARE EVERYWHERE ,
AND SO ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART ,BUT MEN CAN EAR AND SEE WHAT IS DONE AND SAID RIGHT .???
T,Why do you think Jesus, when speaking to those who with their mouth confessed him as Lord, said:
Matthew 22:14
King James Version (KJV)14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
At that time the tree was green.
Luke 23:31
King James Version (KJV)31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
Yes, “MEN CAN EAR AND SEE WHAT IS DONE AND SAID RIGHT .”
KLk 23:28 Jesus turned and said to them, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children.
Lk 23:29 For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’
Lk 23:30 Then
“ ‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!”
and to the hills, “Cover us!” ’
Lk 23:31 For if men do these things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?”the tree is close to be dry ,
Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,00:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2013,20:36) Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,12:23) El, who archaeologist claim is the most high God of the Canaanites.
Kerwin,Your own source said that the el of the Canaanites had Asherah as his wife. Does that sound like Jehovah to you?
Mike,That is the teaching of heretics but the God of the Baptists is the same God of the Jehovah Witnesses.
Kwhat is this suppose to mean
Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,05:09) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,00:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2013,20:36) Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,12:23) El, who archaeologist claim is the most high God of the Canaanites.
Kerwin,Your own source said that the el of the Canaanites had Asherah as his wife. Does that sound like Jehovah to you?
Mike,That is the teaching of heretics but the God of the Baptists is the same God of the Jehovah Witnesses.
Kwhat is this suppose to mean
T,It is pointing out that even though the teachings of the Canaanites were different that Abraham's they both had the same most high God. Baptist's believe God is three person while Jehovah's Witnesses believe he is one person and yet they are speaking of the same most high God that Abraham spoke of to the king of Sodom.
Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,05:22) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,05:09) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,00:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2013,20:36) Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,12:23) El, who archaeologist claim is the most high God of the Canaanites.
Kerwin,Your own source said that the el of the Canaanites had Asherah as his wife. Does that sound like Jehovah to you?
Mike,That is the teaching of heretics but the God of the Baptists is the same God of the Jehovah Witnesses.
Kwhat is this suppose to mean
T,It is pointing out that even though the teachings of the Canaanites were different that Abraham's they both had the same most high God. Baptist's believe God is three person while Jehovah's Witnesses believe he is one person and yet they are speaking of the same most high God that Abraham spoke of to the king of Sodom.
Kthere is ONLY ONE ALMIGHTY GOD THAT IS CALLED JEHOVAH AND THAT HAS A SON CALLED THE WORD ” AND ALSO CALLED JESUS THE CHRIST ,I WOULD SAY THAT ALL ARE KNOWN TO HAVE HEARD OF THAT GOD SOME HOW ,
BUT YOU CAN NOT WORSHIP A GOD THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW ,AND THE LAW WAS A COVENANT WITH HIM SO THAT BY OBEYING YOU FULFILL YOUR OBLIGATION OF THAT COVENANT ,
SINS CHRIST WHO WAS A PART OF AN NEW COVENANT OPEN TO ALL ;BUT AGAIN UNLESS YOU ARE FULFILLING THE OBLIGATION OF THAT COVENANT YOU ARE NOT ONE OF HIS .
AND SO CAN NOT CLAIM THAT YOU HAVE THE FAITH ,WE KNOW MANY CLAIM THAT BUT GOD KNOWS WHO IS HIS
SO I DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THIS POINT BECAUSE WE DO NOT KNOW WHO IS AND WHO IS NOT APPROVED BY GOD ,
WE ALL STAND BEFORE GOD'S THRONE AND INTO JUDGEMENT ,
Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,05:53) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,05:22) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,05:09) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,00:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2013,20:36) Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,12:23) El, who archaeologist claim is the most high God of the Canaanites.
Kerwin,Your own source said that the el of the Canaanites had Asherah as his wife. Does that sound like Jehovah to you?
Mike,That is the teaching of heretics but the God of the Baptists is the same God of the Jehovah Witnesses.
Kwhat is this suppose to mean
T,It is pointing out that even though the teachings of the Canaanites were different that Abraham's they both had the same most high God. Baptist's believe God is three person while Jehovah's Witnesses believe he is one person and yet they are speaking of the same most high God that Abraham spoke of to the king of Sodom.
Kthere is ONLY ONE ALMIGHTY GOD THAT IS CALLED JEHOVAH AND THAT HAS A SON CALLED THE WORD ” AND ALSO CALLED JESUS THE CHRIST ,I WOULD SAY THAT ALL ARE KNOWN TO HAVE HEARD OF THAT GOD SOME HOW ,
BUT YOU CAN NOT WORSHIP A GOD THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW ,AND THE LAW WAS A COVENANT WITH HIM SO THAT BY OBEYING YOU FULFILL YOUR OBLIGATION OF THAT COVENANT ,
SINS CHRIST WHO WAS A PART OF AN NEW COVENANT OPEN TO ALL ;BUT AGAIN UNLESS YOU ARE FULFILLING THE OBLIGATION OF THAT COVENANT YOU ARE NOT ONE OF HIS .
AND SO CAN NOT CLAIM THAT YOU HAVE THE FAITH ,WE KNOW MANY CLAIM THAT BUT GOD KNOWS WHO IS HIS
SO I DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THIS POINT BECAUSE WE DO NOT KNOW WHO IS AND WHO IS NOT APPROVED BY GOD ,
WE ALL STAND BEFORE GOD'S THRONE AND INTO JUDGEMENT ,
T,Are you claiming that the God of the Baptist is not the God of the Jehovah Witnesses?
Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,05:07) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,04:18) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,03:45) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,00:46) Quote (terraricca @ July 06 2013,10:11) K Sodom was not destroyed because of the lack of faith ,it was for their love of corruption ,and so it will be of all men .
T,By their fruit you will know them. Does Sodom's fruit testify they were believers or non-believers?
kQuote Does Sodom's fruit testify they were believers or non-believers? SO TAKING NOTICE OF YOUR REMARK ,I MUST BELIEVE THAT YOU TREATING THE WORLD TODAY IN THE SAME WAY ,ALL WHO BELIEVE PRODUCES THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD ,THIS WILL MAKE IT VERY FEW THAT WILL BE SAVED ,SINS SELF PROCLAIM CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS ARE EVERYWHERE ,
AND SO ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART ,BUT MEN CAN EAR AND SEE WHAT IS DONE AND SAID RIGHT .???
T,Why do you think Jesus, when speaking to those who with their mouth confessed him as Lord, said:
Matthew 22:14
King James Version (KJV)14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
At that time the tree was green.
Luke 23:31
King James Version (KJV)31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
Yes, “MEN CAN EAR AND SEE WHAT IS DONE AND SAID RIGHT .”
KLk 23:28 Jesus turned and said to them, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children.
Lk 23:29 For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’
Lk 23:30 Then
“ ‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!”
and to the hills, “Cover us!” ’
Lk 23:31 For if men do these things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?”the tree is close to be dry ,
T,I believe the same.
Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,10:20) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,05:53) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,05:22) Quote (terraricca @ July 07 2013,05:09) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,00:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2013,20:36) Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,12:23) El, who archaeologist claim is the most high God of the Canaanites.
Kerwin,Your own source said that the el of the Canaanites had Asherah as his wife. Does that sound like Jehovah to you?
Mike,That is the teaching of heretics but the God of the Baptists is the same God of the Jehovah Witnesses.
Kwhat is this suppose to mean
T,It is pointing out that even though the teachings of the Canaanites were different that Abraham's they both had the same most high God. Baptist's believe God is three person while Jehovah's Witnesses believe he is one person and yet they are speaking of the same most high God that Abraham spoke of to the king of Sodom.
Kthere is ONLY ONE ALMIGHTY GOD THAT IS CALLED JEHOVAH AND THAT HAS A SON CALLED THE WORD ” AND ALSO CALLED JESUS THE CHRIST ,I WOULD SAY THAT ALL ARE KNOWN TO HAVE HEARD OF THAT GOD SOME HOW ,
BUT YOU CAN NOT WORSHIP A GOD THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW ,AND THE LAW WAS A COVENANT WITH HIM SO THAT BY OBEYING YOU FULFILL YOUR OBLIGATION OF THAT COVENANT ,
SINS CHRIST WHO WAS A PART OF AN NEW COVENANT OPEN TO ALL ;BUT AGAIN UNLESS YOU ARE FULFILLING THE OBLIGATION OF THAT COVENANT YOU ARE NOT ONE OF HIS .
AND SO CAN NOT CLAIM THAT YOU HAVE THE FAITH ,WE KNOW MANY CLAIM THAT BUT GOD KNOWS WHO IS HIS
SO I DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THIS POINT BECAUSE WE DO NOT KNOW WHO IS AND WHO IS NOT APPROVED BY GOD ,
WE ALL STAND BEFORE GOD'S THRONE AND INTO JUDGEMENT ,
T,Are you claiming that the God of the Baptist is not the God of the Jehovah Witnesses?
KI do not claim that ,but what I find in scriptures is that if you serve God you have to do it directly with him ,wen you using religion as an in between ,you have cut your self off from God ,because your religion is now the spoke person between you and God ,is this what God ask
NO,Many will come in the name of Christ ,but do we have to follow them
NO,says scriptures ,Also remember that under the law the Jews ad to make offerings for their sins but it as to be a pure animal free from defects ,but many offert bad animals sick,and defects on them,they also thought God would not notice it,
Same sins Christ if your faith is shared with other things or restricted by you,this scriptures says will not be good for you,God want all of you not a part ,
Love your God with all your heart,all your mind ,all your strength and all your soul,
So what is left for you
The love for God , T,
I am just trying to understand on which point you disagree with me.
Some that could believe bear bad fruit because of their ignorance and those that are not mature in Christ bear bad fruit because of their incomplete faith. The people of Sodom did not adhere to the Law of Noah and thus showed their faith was dead.
Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2013,12:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2013,20:36) Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,12:23) El, who archaeologist claim is the most high God of the Canaanites.
Kerwin,Your own source said that the el of the Canaanites had Asherah as his wife. Does that sound like Jehovah to you?
Mike,That is the teaching of heretics but the God of the Baptists is the same God of the Jehovah Witnesses.
He is also the God of Satan and his demons.Our discussion was about the Canaanites RECOGNIZING Jehovah as their El. And apparently, even though Jehovah IS the God of EVERYONE, the El that the Canaanites worshiped as their God had a wife named Asherah.
I have yet to see a scripture that says any Canaanite worshiped and served Jehovah as their God and creator.
Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2013,13:37) Almighty mighty is what Mike believes El Shaddai means.
It was the translators of the LXX – 70 scholars who spoke fluent Greek and fluent Hebrew, and who lived much closer to the time the OT was written – who translated shaddai as “almighty”.In the early church, when disagreements over translation would arise, it was always settled by the LXX. If there was a disagreement, they would see what the LXX said, and considered it the final answer on the subject.
Also, in the NT, Jesus and his disciples quoted the LXX version of the OT 67% of the time. That is twice as often as they quoted the Hebrew version.
So if the LXX renders shaddai as almighty, who am I to question it?
And that would make the translation literally mean: Jehovah, the Almighty mighty one………. ie: “the MOST mighty of all the mighty ones”. Do you see a problem with that understanding?
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