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Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,13:13) JEHOVAH is the most high “leader” – there are no gods.
“there is no God else beside me” (Isaiah 45:21)Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2013,20:08) Hi Mike, In your estimation are “men” mighty ones?
Absolutely, Ed. It seems from scripture that the word “el”, or “elohim” was occasionally applied to human beings early on.As we move farther through scripture, we see how the word is increasingly understood to refer to supernatural beings only. For example, by the time we get to the NT, the word “theos” ALWAYS refers to a supernatural being, and never to a human being.
Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2013,20:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,05:56) Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2013,21:06) Hi Pierre, When the bible calls YHVH the most high, it simply
means that none that are higher. (ref. Psalm 83:18)
Ed, once again you are bouncing all around the truth, but never landing directly on it.Your statement above is absolutely correct. So using that same exact reasoning and wisdom, tell us what it means when Jehovah is called the most high elohim.
That's right. It means that of ALL the elohim, none are higher than the particular elohim named YHWH.
One can't possibly be the MOST HIGH god if there are not lesser high gods for him to be higher than. This is just simple, common sense. Are you guys able to understand this?
Hi Mike,Is this verse saying that men are “HIGH” – “Yes” or “No”?
“That men may know that thou, whose name alone is
JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” (Psalms 83:18)
That verse doesn't say anything one way or the other about how high men are, Ed.It seems you are diverting away from the point with needless questions that are unrelated, and not a part of the discussion point.
Would you now please answer my questions in the quote box above? I've made them big for easy reference.
Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2013,20:05) Hi Mike, “EL-o-heem of EL-o-heem's” means:
“LEADER of Leaders” -NOT- 'angel of angels'.
Okay Ed,It seems you agree with me that in phrases like “lord of lords” and “king of kings”, the definition of the first word must match the definition of the second word. (It would be so nice for you to come out and say, “Yes Mike, I absolutely agree that this is the case”, instead of just blowing over it as if I didn't make an important step in the right direction. But it is what it is.)
Anyway, now that we both agree that the definition of the first “elohim” must match the definition of the second “elohim”, we must find out what that dual definition is. I have offered “mighty one” for two main reasons:
1. It IS, after all, the earliest known definition of “el”.
2. It fits each and every scripture in the entire Bible – every single time “el” or “elohim” is used.
Does your word “leader” fit every instance of “el” and “elohim” in the scriptures? (I haven't checked, but I doubt it.)
But more to the point, since you are defining “elohim” as “leader”……………..
Isaiah 44:6
This is what the Lord says—Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no leader.Yet we know that Jehovah is the “leader OF leaders”, according to you, right? So how then could Jehovah say that He was LITERALLY the ONLY leader in 44:6?
He couldn't Ed. Which proves what I've been saying all along – that He was speaking EMPHATICALLY, placing Himself ABOVE all the other leaders. He wasn't saying He was LITERALLY the ONLY one, nor that the others were all “false leaders”. He was making an EMPHATIC statement to designate Himself as OVER these other leaders.
It is similar to when Jesus, who we all know is “good”, says “no one is good except God”.
Please tell me you can see this.
Quote (t8 @ June 29 2013,12:53) Quote (942767 @ June 16 2013,16:11) Mike, the scriptures state that there is “a first Adam”, and “a last Adam”. Adam = man.
Not sure of your point here, but if you just mean man, then Jesus was not the second man. Obviously Adam is referring to the Man. The one whom men originate. You probably agree with that. Not saying you aren't.
Hi t8:Mike said that the risen Jesus is not longer a man, and so, my point is that the scriptures state that he is the last Adam, and the word “Adam means man”.
The first Adam was made a “living soul”, and Jesus was and is “a living soul”, but through obedience to God's Word without sin even unto death on the cross, he is the “express image of God's person”. It is through the works of obedience to God that he could say in John 14 “he who has seen me has seen the Father”.
And so, Genesis 1:26 states: Let us make man in our image, and we are being conformed to that same image as we learn to apply the Word of God in our daily life.
Quote 1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven. 1Cr 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.
1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
And so, to summarize, the Lord Jesus in heaven is still a man, who is the “express image of God's person, but no longer has a mortal but a spiritual body.
Quote 1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,13:25) Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2013,20:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,05:56) Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2013,21:06) Hi Pierre, When the bible calls YHVH the most high, it simply
means that none that are higher. (ref. Psalm 83:18)
Ed, once again you are bouncing all around the truth, but never landing directly on it.(1)Your statement above is absolutely correct. So using that same exact reasoning and wisdom, tell us what it means when Jehovah is called the most high elohim.
That's right. It means that of ALL the elohim, none are higher than the particular elohim named YHWH.
(2)One can't possibly be the MOST HIGH god if there are not lesser high gods for him to be higher than. This is just simple, common sense. Are you guys able to understand this?
Hi Mike,Is this verse saying that men are “HIGH” – “Yes” or “No”?
“That men may know that thou, whose name alone is
JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” (Psalms 83:18)
That verse doesn't say anything one way or the other about how high men are, Ed.It seems you are diverting away from the point with needless questions that are unrelated, and not a part of the discussion point.
Would you now please answer my questions in the quote box above? I've made them big for easy reference.
Hi Mike,1) Yes, JEHOVAH is the most high “leader” (LEADER of leaders) – there are no other gods.
2) Men are lesser (mighty one's) for him to be the most high over – remember, you just agreed to this.You can't change Scripture – there are no other gods Mike, period.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Mike,
Once you align “The Word” to God's Spirit – misconceptions will fall to the way-side.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,13:38) Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2013,20:05) Hi Mike, “EL-o-heem of EL-o-heem's” means:
“LEADER of Leaders” -NOT- 'angel of angels'.
Okay Ed,It seems you agree with me that in phrases like “lord of lords” and “king of kings”, the definition of the first word must match the definition of the second word. (It would be so nice for you to come out and say, “Yes Mike, I absolutely agree that this is the case”, instead of just blowing over it as if I didn't make an important step in the right direction. But it is what it is.)
Anyway, now that we both agree that the definition of the first “elohim” must match the definition of the second “elohim”, we must find out what that dual definition is. I have offered “mighty one” for two main reasons:
1. It IS, after all, the earliest known definition of “el”.
2. It fits each and every scripture in the entire Bible – every single time “el” or “elohim” is used.
Does your word “leader” fit every instance of “el” and “elohim” in the scriptures? (I haven't checked, but I doubt it.)
But more to the point, since you are defining “elohim” as “leader”……………..
Isaiah 44:6
This is what the Lord says—Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no leader.Yet we know that Jehovah is the “leader OF leaders”, according to you, right? So how then could Jehovah say that He was LITERALLY the ONLY leader in 44:6?
He couldn't Ed. Which proves what I've been saying all along – that He was speaking EMPHATICALLY, placing Himself ABOVE all the other leaders. He wasn't saying He was LITERALLY the ONLY one, nor that the others were all “false leaders”. He was making an EMPHATIC statement to designate Himself as OVER these other leaders.
It is similar to when Jesus, who we all know is “good”, says “no one is good except God”.
Please tell me you can see this.
Hi Mike,JEHOVAH sent Moses, Joshua, Gideon, and others, so JEHOVAH alone is their leader – “LEADER of Leaders”.
JEHOVAH did not send 'gods' – this misconception grows out of not understanding the meaning of John 1:1.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,13:38) It is similar to when Jesus, who we all know is “good”, says “no one is good except God”. Please tell me you can see this.
Hi Mike,Jesus said that because Lucifer had not yet been removed
from “the Godhead” – that happened at Jesus' death.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 29 2013,20:51) You can't change Scripture – there are no other gods Mike, period. 
You are in complete denial, Ed.What do you say we get extremely REAL about this?
The fact of the matter is that there are no “gods” PERIOD in ANY scripture. There are “el”, “elohim”, and “theos”.
Fact: Jehovah is the elohim OF elohim.
Fact: Jehovah is the MOST HIGH elohim.
Question: Is Jehovah literally the ONLY elohim? YES or NO?
Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,14:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,13:38) It is similar to when Jesus, who we all know is “good”, says “no one is good except God”. Please tell me you can see this.
Hi Mike,Jesus said that because Lucifer had not yet been removed
from “the Godhead” – that happened at Jesus' death.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
“Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince(Lucifer)
of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.” (John 14:30)Lucifer has “NO PART” in the resurrected Christ!
Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2013,20:51) Hi Mike, 1) Yes, JEHOVAH is the most high “leader” (LEADER of leaders) – there are no other gods.
Actually, Jehovah is the most high elohim (“elohim OF elohim”). So are you claiming there are no other elohim?It is obvious you are in denial, but will you go as far to claim that Jehovah is the ONLY elohim?
Hi Mike:
Does the scripture state this statement or is this something that you added to the scriptures?
You say:
Quote who was existing in the form of God before the universe was created Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,14:05) Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2013,20:51) You can't change Scripture – there are no other gods Mike, period. You are in complete denial, Ed.What do you say we get extremely REAL about this?
The fact of the matter is that there are no “gods” PERIOD in ANY scripture. There are “el”, “elohim”, and “theos”.
Fact: Jehovah is the elohim OF elohim.
Fact: Jehovah is the MOST HIGH elohim.
Question: Is Jehovah literally the ONLY elohim? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,“EL-o-heem” defines as any of the following(depending on the context):
1. GOD
2. Angels
3. Leaders
4. MagistratesThe context of Isa 44:8 dictates that the definition of “EL-o-heem” is definition #1.
“EL-o-heem” as the definition of “GOD” yes – JEHOVAH is the only “GOD”(EL-o-heem).God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,14:15) All from scripture, Marty.
Hi Mike:Please quote the scripture.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Ed J @ June 29 2013,21:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,14:05) Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2013,20:51) You can't change Scripture – there are no other gods Mike, period. You are in complete denial, Ed.What do you say we get extremely REAL about this?
The fact of the matter is that there are no “gods” PERIOD in ANY scripture. There are “el”, “elohim”, and “theos”.
Fact: Jehovah is the elohim OF elohim.
Fact: Jehovah is the MOST HIGH elohim.
Question: Is Jehovah literally the ONLY elohim? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,“EL-o-heem” defines as any of the following(depending on the context):
1. GOD
2. Angels
3. Leaders
4. MagistratesThe context of Isa 44:8 dictates that the definition of “EL-o-heem” is definition #1.
“EL-o-heem” as the definition of “GOD” yes – JEHOVAH is the only “GOD”(EL-o-heem).
No Ed.You can't just swap the definitions of “elohim” as it suits your purpose. The word means the same thing all the time.
The question is: Is Jehovah LITERALLY the ONLY elohim in existence? YES or NO?
Answer it with a “YES” or a “NO”, Ed.
Quote (942767 @ June 29 2013,21:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,14:15) All from scripture, Marty.
Hi Mike:Please quote the scripture.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Phil 2
Who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped;7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.Colossians 1:16
For through him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.There are more that say the same thing, but this should suffice for now.
Quote (942767 @ June 30 2013,09:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,14:15) All from scripture, Marty.
Hi Mike:Please quote the scripture.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
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