ISM Scale

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2013,18:30)

Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2013,23:28)

edj

you like to show control to the weak ,

Hi Pierre,

Is that an admission that your position is weak?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

if i was weak ,you would have convinced me ,but i am well in scriptures and strong in truth ,

I was talking about those you try to convert to your religion system and that agree with your views that is not true to scriptures,

June 28, 2013 at 1:05 pm#349048

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,23:54)

Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2013,18:30)

Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2013,23:28)

edj

you like to show control to the weak ,

Hi Pierre,

Is that an admission that your position is weak?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

if i was weak ,you would have convinced me ,but i am well in scriptures and strong in truth ,

I was talking about those you try to convert to your religion system and that agree with your views that is not true to scriptures,

There's no chink in the armor my friend.

June 28, 2013 at 2:55 pm#349077

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2013,19:05)

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,23:54)

Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2013,18:30)

Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2013,23:28)

edj

you like to show control to the weak ,

Hi Pierre,

Is that an admission that your position is weak?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

if i was weak ,you would have convinced me ,but i am well in scriptures and strong in truth ,

I was talking about those you try to convert to your religion system and that agree with your views that is not true to scriptures,

There's no chink in the armor my friend.

EDJ

so was the pharisees ,and the Sadducee ,interpretation of scriptures ,but it was only in their own mind ;Christ show them differently ,but that did not change the hard core of them,

June 29, 2013 at 1:01 am#349107

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2013,04:32)

Why?

Ed,

It is similar to the Hebrew definition of Elohim.

June 29, 2013 at 1:06 am#349110

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,05:11)

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,02:39)

Quote (abe @ June 28 2013,00:14)

Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,10:07)

To all,

What are the meanings of god?

Hi Kerwin,

After reading some of these posts, I am losing the meaning of the word. What does brainwashing MEAN?

Peace brother…………

Abe,

Quote

god (gd)
n.
1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.

Some here do not believe the one true God is omnipresent. These same ones do not believe angels should be worshiped. So either they are claiming God is ” A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.” and and angels are “A powerful ruler or despot.” or that both God and the angels are “A powerful ruler or despot.”

Note: I am sure they are not using “god” in the sense of “A very handsome man.”

Quote

Some here do not believe the one true God is omnipresent

and also many do not understand the meaning of it ;

it is obvious to me that God as omnipresence ,HE CREATED ALL THINGS,SO IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR SELVES AND ALL AROUND YOU, YOU ONLY CAN ONLY SEE THE CREATION OF GOD,BUT YOU CAN ALSO SEE WHAT MEN HAVE DONE OR DO NOT THE SAME THING

Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven

T,
I am not seeing where you are coming from.

Quote

om·ni·pres·ent (mn-prznt)
adj.
Present everywhere simultaneously.

June 29, 2013 at 1:52 am#349123

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,07:06)

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,05:11)

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,02:39)

Quote (abe @ June 28 2013,00:14)

Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,10:07)

To all,

What are the meanings of god?

Hi Kerwin,

After reading some of these posts, I am losing the meaning of the word. What does brainwashing MEAN?

Peace brother…………

Abe,

Quote

Note: I am sure they are not using “god” in the sense of “A very handsome man.”

Quote

Some here do not believe the one true God is omnipresent

and also many do not understand the meaning of it ;

T,
I am not seeing where you are coming from.

Quote

om·ni·pres·ent (mn-prznt)
adj.
Present everywhere simultaneously.

I do not use the dictionary but the scriptures ;

does not all creation shows the GLORY OF GOD

THIS IS THE WAY THAT GOD IS EVERYWHERE IN HIS OWN CREATION

June 29, 2013 at 1:53 am#349126

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (942767 @ June 16 2013,16:11)

Mike, the scriptures state that there is “a first Adam”, and “a last Adam”. Adam = man.

Not sure of your point here, but if you just mean man, then Jesus was not the second man. Obviously Adam is referring to the Man. The one whom men originate. You probably agree with that. Not saying you aren't.

June 29, 2013 at 10:11 am#349143

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2013,07:52)

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,07:06)

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,05:11)

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,02:39)

Quote (abe @ June 28 2013,00:14)

Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,10:07)

To all,

What are the meanings of god?

Hi Kerwin,

After reading some of these posts, I am losing the meaning of the word. What does brainwashing MEAN?

Peace brother…………

Abe,

Quote

Note: I am sure they are not using “god” in the sense of “A very handsome man.”

Quote

Some here do not believe the one true God is omnipresent

and also many do not understand the meaning of it ;

T,
I am not seeing where you are coming from.

Quote

om·ni·pres·ent (mn-prznt)
adj.
Present everywhere simultaneously.

I do not use the dictionary but the scriptures ;

does not all creation shows the GLORY OF GOD

THIS IS THE WAY THAT GOD IS EVERYWHERE IN HIS OWN CREATION

So you so not seek to use English correctly?

June 29, 2013 at 12:17 pm#349148

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,16:11)

Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2013,07:52)

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,07:06)

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,05:11)

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,02:39)

Quote (abe @ June 28 2013,00:14)

Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,10:07)

To all,

What are the meanings of god?

Hi Kerwin,

After reading some of these posts, I am losing the meaning of the word. What does brainwashing MEAN?

Peace brother…………

Abe,

Quote

Note: I am sure they are not using “god” in the sense of “A very handsome man.”

Quote

Some here do not believe the one true God is omnipresent

and also many do not understand the meaning of it ;

T,
I am not seeing where you are coming from.

Quote

om·ni·pres·ent (mn-prznt)
adj.
Present everywhere simultaneously.

I do not use the dictionary but the scriptures ;

does not all creation shows the GLORY OF GOD

THIS IS THE WAY THAT GOD IS EVERYWHERE IN HIS OWN CREATION

So you so not seek to use English correctly?

like this Noun1.omnipresence – the state of being everywhere at once (or seeming to be everywhere at once)

and of cause if you say that God is present with his own being everywhere,this would mean that God himself is his creation ,but this scriptures do not say only kerwin ,

June 29, 2013 at 6:08 pm#349176

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2013,18:17)

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,16:11)

Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2013,07:52)

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,07:06)

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,05:11)

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,02:39)

Quote (abe @ June 28 2013,00:14)

Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,10:07)

To all,

What are the meanings of god?

Hi Kerwin,

After reading some of these posts, I am losing the meaning of the word. What does brainwashing MEAN?

Peace brother…………

Abe,

Quote

Note: I am sure they are not using “god” in the sense of “A very handsome man.”

Quote

Some here do not believe the one true God is omnipresent

and also many do not understand the meaning of it ;

T,
I am not seeing where you are coming from.

Quote

om·ni·pres·ent (mn-prznt)
adj.
Present everywhere simultaneously.

I do not use the dictionary but the scriptures ;

does not all creation shows the GLORY OF GOD

THIS IS THE WAY THAT GOD IS EVERYWHERE IN HIS OWN CREATION

So you so not seek to use English correctly?

like this Noun1.omnipresence – the state of being everywhere at once (or seeming to be everywhere at once)

and of cause if you say that God is present with his own being everywhere,this would mean that God himself is his creation ,but this scriptures do not say only kerwin ,

I believe God is omnipresent but I was speaking of those like you when I said the definition of God you used did not include that characteristic. That is why I said you believed God is “A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.”

I am unclear of your view on angels as it sometimes seem you are using god in the same sense but that they are not the gods you choose to worship.

note: inserted “you” in last paragraph

June 29, 2013 at 6:29 pm#349180

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2013,19:59)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 28 2013,12:38)

Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2013,19:22)

Leader of Leaders – definition #3.

And does the first word “leader” have a DIFFERENT definition than the second word “leader”? YES or NO?

Hi Mike,

I would say no……………….

Your answer is correct and acceptable, Ed. In any of those types of phrases (king of kings, lord of lords, etc.), the first thing mentioned has the SAME definition as the last thing mentioned.

So let's consider that Jehovah is indeed the elohim of elohim.

If the second “elohim” means “angels”, then it is saying that Jehovah is the “angel of angels” – because the first and last “elohim” have to mean the same thing.

Likewise, if the second “elohim” means “false gods”, then it is saying that Jehovah is the “false god of false gods”.

And if the second “elohim” means “idols”, then it is saying that Jehovah is the “idol of idols”.

Are you with me so far?

Now on the other hand, if the first “elohim” means “mighty one”, then the second “elohim” also mean “mighty one”.

And if the first “elohim” refers to a REAL “mighty one”, then there is no way you can change the definition of the second “elohim” to be “false mighty ones”, or “angels”, or anything else.

The second “elohim” means exactly what the first “elohim” means. That is just the simple FACT of the matter, Ed.

So the title “god of gods”, in and of itself, INSISTS that there are OTHER gods that Jehovah is the god OF.

“Elohim” can't possibly mean “Almighty Creator of All Things”, or else “elohim of elohim” would mean “Almighty Creator of the Almighty Creators”.

I truly hope and pray that you guys are understanding this. I truly hope and pray that you are beginning to understand that the phrase “god of gods” INSISTS that “elohim” simply means “mighty one”, and teaches that Jehovah alone is the Mighty One OF all the other mighty ones.

June 29, 2013 at 6:45 pm#349183

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2013,20:30)

“EL-o-heem of EL-o-heems” means “LEADER of Leaders”
it does not mean there are Big Gods and little gods.

You're getting closer to the truth, Ed.

Now try “Mighty One of mighty ones”.

And then tell me what scripture tells us that “elohim” EVER means anything OTHER THAN “mighty one”.

That is the main point: When does scripture EVER say that the word “elohim”, IN AND OF ITSELF, distinguishes Jehovah as the Creator of the universe, or the most high mighty one? NEVER!

That is why you have verses like this:

Genesis 2:4
…….the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

See? The word “elohim”, IN AND OF ITSELF, does NOT mean, “The One Who Created the Earth and the Heavens”. If it did, then Moses wouldn't have had to CLARIFY that the elohim known as YHWH is the PARTICULAR ELOHIM who did these things.

Psalm 68:20
Our God is a God who saves; from the Sovereign LORD comes escape from death.

See? Jehovah is a god who saves. If He was literally the ONLY god, then this psalm would make no sense.

Genesis 14:19
and he blessed Abram, saying, “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth.

See? If the word “elohim”, IN AND OF ITSELF, already meant “MOST HIGH”, or “he who created heaven and earth”, then these qualities would not have to be attributed to that one PARTICULAR elohim who is named YHWH.

But because the word “elohim”, IN AND OF ITSELF, merely means “mighty one”, these verses are written to let us know that the PARTICULAR elohim known as YHWH is alone the ONE who is the MOST HIGH, and is alone the ONE who created the heavens and the earth.

See? The word “god” does not MEAN these things. That's why the writers of scripture must ATTRIBUTE these things to one PARTICULAR god.

Ed and All,

I could go through the entire scriptures and show you guys a THOUSAND of similar verses – where qualities are attributed to the elohim named YHWH alone. But will you understand that these qualities have to be attributed to this PARTICULAR elohim, because the word “elohim”, IN AND OF ITSELF, does NOT automatically include these qualities?

June 29, 2013 at 6:56 pm#349185

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2013,21:06)

Hi Pierre,

When the bible calls YHVH the most high, it simply
means that none that are higher. (ref. Psalm 83:18)

Ed, once again you are bouncing all around the truth, but never landing directly on it.

Your statement above is absolutely correct. So using that same exact reasoning and wisdom, tell us what it means when Jehovah is called the most high elohim.

That's right. It means that of ALL the elohim, none are higher than the particular elohim named YHWH.

One can't possibly be the MOST HIGH god if there are not lesser high gods for him to be higher than. This is just simple, common sense. Are you guys able to understand this?

June 29, 2013 at 7:20 pm#349190

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,12:08)

I believe God is omnipresent but I was speaking of those like you when I said the definition of God you used did not include that characteristic. That is why I said you believed God is “A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in ~~and worshiped~~ by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.”

I am unclear of your view on angels as it sometimes seem you are using god in the same sense but that they are not the gods choose to worship.

Kerwin,

What if you remove the words “and worshiped”?

This definition is from Merriam Webster:

god
any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature

You see there is no mention of “worship” in this definition. And since the Hebrew word “elohim”, IN AND OF ITSELF, did not carry a connotation of worship in it, the above definition from Webster fits the Biblical definition of “elohim” more readily.

Consider:
2 Kings 17:35
Do not worship any other gods or bow down to them………

See? If the word “elohim”, in and of itself, already implied “one you worship”, then it could never be said that we are not to worship any other gods. It could never be said that we are to worship only the particular elohim who created the heavens and the earth. These things would not have to be spoken if the word “god”, in and of itself, already implied worship.

And we know this is not the case, because angels are often called gods in scripture, without even an inkling that any of us should worship them.

When dictionaries throw the word “worship” into their definitions, they muck the whole thing up. See if you can follow this fact:

Acknowledging that there EXIST other gods is NOT the same thing as acknowledging they deserve any worship from us.

Are we agreed about this final statement?

June 29, 2013 at 9:40 pm#349204

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ June 30 2013,00:08)

Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2013,18:17)

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,16:11)

Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2013,07:52)

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,07:06)

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,05:11)

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,02:39)

Quote (abe @ June 28 2013,00:14)

Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,10:07)

To all,

What are the meanings of god?

Hi Kerwin,

After reading some of these posts, I am losing the meaning of the word. What does brainwashing MEAN?

Peace brother…………

Abe,

Quote

Note: I am sure they are not using “god” in the sense of “A very handsome man.”

Quote

Some here do not believe the one true God is omnipresent

and also many do not understand the meaning of it ;

T,
I am not seeing where you are coming from.

Quote

om·ni·pres·ent (mn-prznt)
adj.
Present everywhere simultaneously.

I do not use the dictionary but the scriptures ;

does not all creation shows the GLORY OF GOD

THIS IS THE WAY THAT GOD IS EVERYWHERE IN HIS OWN CREATION

So you so not seek to use English correctly?

like this Noun1.omnipresence – the state of being everywhere at once (or seeming to be everywhere at once)

and of cause if you say that God is present with his own being everywhere,this would mean that God himself is his creation ,but this scriptures do not say only kerwin ,

I am unclear of your view on angels as it sometimes seem you are using god in the same sense but that they are not the gods choose to worship.

you are unclear ,I have no clue of what you are saying here

please re sentence this

as for angels I see it like the scriptures teach it ;same as Mike believe they are in scriptures simple.

June 29, 2013 at 10:31 pm#349214

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ June 30 2013,03:40)

Quote (kerwin @ June 30 2013,00:08)

Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2013,18:17)

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,16:11)

Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2013,07:52)

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,07:06)

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,05:11)

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,02:39)

Quote (abe @ June 28 2013,00:14)

Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,10:07)

To all,

What are the meanings of god?

Hi Kerwin,

After reading some of these posts, I am losing the meaning of the word. What does brainwashing MEAN?

Peace brother…………

Abe,

Quote

Note: I am sure they are not using “god” in the sense of “A very handsome man.”

Quote

Some here do not believe the one true God is omnipresent

and also many do not understand the meaning of it ;

T,
I am not seeing where you are coming from.

Quote

om·ni·pres·ent (mn-prznt)
adj.
Present everywhere simultaneously.

I do not use the dictionary but the scriptures ;

does not all creation shows the GLORY OF GOD

THIS IS THE WAY THAT GOD IS EVERYWHERE IN HIS OWN CREATION

So you so not seek to use English correctly?

like this Noun1.omnipresence – the state of being everywhere at once (or seeming to be everywhere at once)

and of cause if you say that God is present with his own being everywhere,this would mean that God himself is his creation ,but this scriptures do not say only kerwin ,

I am unclear of your view on angels as it sometimes seem you are using god in the same sense but that they are not the gods choose to worship.

you are unclear ,I have no clue of what you are saying here

please re sentence this

as for angels I see it like the scriptures teach it ;same as Mike believe they are in scriptures simple.

I used standard definitions of god from thefreedictionary.com. Much of your teaching is not explicitly written in Scripture and so please let me know what definition of god you use for angels.

June 29, 2013 at 10:36 pm#349216

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ June 30 2013,00:08)

Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2013,18:17)

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,16:11)

Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2013,07:52)

Quote (kerwin @ June 29 2013,07:06)

Quote (terraricca @ June 28 2013,05:11)

Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2013,02:39)

Quote (abe @ June 28 2013,00:14)

Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2013,10:07)

To all,

What are the meanings of god?

Hi Kerwin,

After reading some of these posts, I am losing the meaning of the word. What does brainwashing MEAN?

Peace brother…………

Abe,

Quote

Note: I am sure they are not using “god” in the sense of “A very handsome man.”

Quote

Some here do not believe the one true God is omnipresent

and also many do not understand the meaning of it ;

T,
I am not seeing where you are coming from.

Quote

om·ni·pres·ent (mn-prznt)
adj.
Present everywhere simultaneously.

I do not use the dictionary but the scriptures ;

does not all creation shows the GLORY OF GOD

THIS IS THE WAY THAT GOD IS EVERYWHERE IN HIS OWN CREATION

So you so not seek to use English correctly?

like this Noun1.omnipresence – the state of being everywhere at once (or seeming to be everywhere at once)

and of cause if you say that God is present with his own being everywhere,this would mean that God himself is his creation ,but this scriptures do not say only kerwin ,

I am unclear of your view on angels as it sometimes seem you are using god in the same sense but that they are not the gods you choose to worship.

note: inserted “you” in last paragraph

bump for others to see corrections

June 30, 2013 at 2:05 am#349257

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,05:29)

Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2013,19:59)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 28 2013,12:38)

Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2013,19:22)

Leader of Leaders – definition #3.

And does the first word “leader” have a DIFFERENT definition than the second word “leader”? YES or NO?

Hi Mike,

I would say no……………….

Your answer is correct and acceptable, Ed. In any of those types of phrases (king of kings, lord of lords, etc.), the first thing mentioned has the SAME definition as the last thing mentioned.

So let's consider that Jehovah is indeed the elohim of elohim.

If the second “elohim” means “angels”, then it is saying that Jehovah is the “angel of angels” – because the first and last “elohim” have to mean the same thing.

Likewise, if the second “elohim” means “false gods”, then it is saying that Jehovah is the “false god of false gods”.

And if the second “elohim” means “idols”, then it is saying that Jehovah is the “idol of idols”.

Are you with me so far?

Now on the other hand, if the first “elohim” means “mighty one”, then the second “elohim” also mean “mighty one”.

The second “elohim” means exactly what the first “elohim” means. That is just the simple FACT of the matter, Ed.

So the title “god of gods”, in and of itself, INSISTS that there are OTHER gods that Jehovah is the god OF.

“Elohim” can't possibly mean “Almighty Creator of All Things”, or else “elohim of elohim” would mean “Almighty Creator of the Almighty Creators”.

Hi Mike,

“EL-o-heem of EL-o-heem's” means:
“LEADER of Leaders” -NOT- 'angel of angels'.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

June 30, 2013 at 2:08 am#349259

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,05:45)

Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2013,20:30)

“EL-o-heem of EL-o-heems” means “LEADER of Leaders”
it does not mean there are Big Gods and little gods.

You're getting closer to the truth, Ed.

Now try “Mighty One of mighty ones”.

And then tell me what scripture tells us that “elohim” EVER means anything OTHER THAN “mighty one”.

That is the main point: When does scripture EVER say that the word “elohim”, IN AND OF ITSELF, distinguishes Jehovah as the Creator of the universe, or the most high mighty one? NEVER!

That is why you have verses like this:

Genesis 2:4
…….the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

Psalm 68:20
Our God is a God who saves; from the Sovereign LORD comes escape from death.

See? Jehovah is a god who saves. If He was literally the ONLY god, then this psalm would make no sense.

Genesis 14:19
and he blessed Abram, saying, “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth.

See? The word “god” does not MEAN these things. That's why the writers of scripture must ATTRIBUTE these things to one PARTICULAR god.

Ed and All,

Hi Mike,

In your estimation are “men” mighty ones?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

June 30, 2013 at 2:11 am#349263