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[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ May 15 2013,11:30)

The Throne of you the God. Man put  ” O ”  in the verse.   Get It?

Abe,

Even if we were to translate it literally, Jesus is still called “the god” by his and our God.

You need to remember that languages don't always translate perfectly into other languages.  For example:

Hebrews 10:7
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Again, the Greek word is “ho”, or “the”.  But we in English don't say “I've come to do your will, the God“.  That's why it is translated as “O God”.

Either way Abe, it is clear from Heb 1:8-9 that the Most High God is addressing a DIFFERENT god, and telling that DIFFERENT god that his throne will last forever.  That DIFFERENT god is Jesus.

What is the alternative?  God Almighty is telling HIMSELF that His own throne will last forever because He has placed HIMSELF above His own companions?   Surely that's not it, right?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2013,08:29)

Quote (terraricca @ May 13 2013,20:13) NET © but of 1  the Son he says, 2  “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, 3  and a righteous scepter 4  is the scepter of your kingdom. NET © Notes 2 tn The verb “he says” (λέγει, legei) is implied from the λέγει of v. 7. I've explained this to Abe before, Pierre. He is forgetting the implied “he says”.  It comes from the context of verse 7.  I.e.: To the angels He says…….., but to the Son, [HE SAYS], “Your throne, O god, is forever and ever…….” It is truly the Most High God saying the following words TO His Son:  “Your throne, O god, is forever and ever” People will only see what they WANT to see, Pierre.

Mike

yes I have seen that ,but most of them think that we imply that Christ is a god to compete with his father and this is wrong ,

I ,like you just quoted the scriptures and show that the title of “god' is given frequently to many man and angels ,good or bad

but for the unknown reason they fight for nothing at all ,

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ May 15 2013,18:22)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 16 2013,10:59) Quote (942767 @ May 14 2013,21:05) A.God's representative or viceregent a.of magistrates and judges Okay, now let's see what “judge” meant in the Hebrew culture: Judges 2:16 NET The Lord raised up leaders 1  who delivered them from these robbers. Footnote #1 says: Or more traditionally, “judges” (also in vv. 17, 18 [3x], 19). Since these figures carried out more than a judicial function, also serving as rulers and (in several instances) as military commanders, the translation uses the term “leaders.” You can tell from the scriptures that the traditional “judges” of Israel were “mighty rulers” of Israel.  And since the words “el”, “elohim”, and “theos” actually MEAN “mighty ruler”, you can see how “judges” were sometimes called “gods” in scripture. Satan is also a “mighty ruler”, and therefore called a god in scripture. So the only question you have to ask yourself is this:  Is my Lord Jesus Christ, the second most powerful being in existence, who will rule over heaven and earth with an iron scepter, a “mighty ruler” or not? If he is, then he is rightly called a god – using Biblical terminology.  It doesn't make him the Most High God, but a god (mighty ruler) nonetheless. Yes Mike, he is a Mighty ruler, but no, he is not “a god”.  Is the book of Judges called “gods” or is it called “Judges”. To say that he is “a god” would be inconsistent with the following scriptures:   Quote 1Ti 2:5   For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Quote Jhn 17:1 ¶ These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:   Jhn 17:2   As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.   Jhn 17:3   And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Love in Christ, Marty

Oh, so then the following scriptures are ALSO “inconsistent”?

John 10:35
If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside—

2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers….

1 Corinthians 8:5
For even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many gods and many lords),

Marty, why do accept all of these, but you won't accept that Jesus is called a god?  

Especially when God Himself foretold through Isaiah that he WOULD be called a mighty god?  

Especially when you can look at Hebrews 1:8 and see as plain as day that he IS called a god?

I just don't get it.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ May 15 2013,18:28)

Mike yes I have seen that ,but most of them think that we imply that Christ is a god to compete with his father and this is wrong , I ,like you just quoted the scriptures and show that the title of “god' is given frequently to many man and angels ,good or bad but for the unknown reason they fight for nothing at all ,

I seriously don't understand, Pierre.  It's like they are trying to protect the God-inspired scriptures from THEMSELVES or something.  

What?  Judges are called gods?  Okay.

Demons are called gods?  Okay.

Satan is called a god?  Okay.

Angels are called gods?  Okay.

Jesus is called a god?  Oh hell no!  

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 16 2013,06:42)

Quote (terraricca @ May 15 2013,18:28) Mike yes I have seen that ,but most of them think that we imply that Christ is a god to compete with his father and this is wrong , I ,like you just quoted the scriptures and show that the title of “god' is given frequently to many man and angels ,good or bad but for the unknown reason they fight for nothing at all , I seriously don't understand, Pierre.  It's like they are trying to protect the God-inspired scriptures from THEMSELVES or something.   What?  Judges are called gods?  Okay. Demons are called gods?  Okay. Satan is called a god?  Okay. Angels are called gods?  Okay? Jesus is called a god?  Oh hell no!

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 15 2013,16:42)

Quote (terraricca @ May 15 2013,18:28) Mike yes I have seen that ,but most of them think that we imply that Christ is a god to compete with his father and this is wrong , I ,like you just quoted the scriptures and show that the title of “god' is given frequently to many man and angels ,good or bad but for the unknown reason they fight for nothing at all , I seriously don't understand, Pierre.  It's like they are trying to protect the God-inspired scriptures from THEMSELVES or something.   What?  Judges are called gods?  Okay. Demons are called gods?  Okay. Satan is called a god?  Okay. Angels are called gods?  Okay. Jesus is called a god?  Oh hell no!

Hi Mike,

1Cor.8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Yet For US (Christians).

YET There is a BIG difference to Christians.

Peace brother..

[mikeboll64]

Okay Abe,

Let's examine that scripture:

yet for us there is but……… one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things…….

Is there LITERALLY only ONE Lord for Christians, Abe?  YES or NO?  (Is Jehovah the Father still our Lord, even though Paul said Jesus was the ONLY one?)

And how about this scripture:

Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly lords with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

What?  We are to obey our earthly lords with the same respect and sincerity of heart as we use when obeying our ONLY Lord, Jesus Christ?

How can Paul say Christ is our ONLY Lord, but then tell us about respecting these OTHER lords?

Also, did you notice in the scripture YOU posted that all things came FROM God, and THROUGH Jesus?  What does that mean, Abe?  To me, it says that whatever the “all things” were that came FROM God, they are the same “all things” that came THROUGH Jesus.  What do you say?

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 16 2013,16:58)

Okay Abe, Let's examine that scripture: yet for us there is but……… one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things……. Is there LITERALLY only ONE Lord for Christians, Abe?  YES or NO?  (Is Jehovah the Father still our Lord, even though Paul said Jesus was the ONLY one?) And how about this scripture: Ephesians 6:5 Slaves, obey your earthly lords with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. What?  We are to obey our earthly lords with the same respect and sincerity of heart as we use when obeying our ONLY Lord, Jesus Christ? How can Paul say Christ is our ONLY Lord, but then tell us about respecting these OTHER lords? Also, did you notice in the scripture YOU posted that all things came FROM God, and THROUGH Jesus?  What does that mean, Abe?  To me, it says that whatever the “all things” were that came FROM God, they are the same “all things” that came THROUGH Jesus.  What do you say?

Hi Mike,

I think: 1Cor.8:6 yet for us (Christians) there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Ex.23:13 “Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and do not mention the name of other gods, nor let them be Heard from your mouth.

Ps.16:4 The sorrows of those who have bartered for another god will be multiplied; I shall not pour out their drink offerings of blood, Nor will I take their names upon my lips.

1Cor.8:6 yet for us (Christians) there is but one God, the Father,

Peace brother……………………………..

[abe]

Hi All,

Num.23:19 God is not a MAN, that he should lie; Neither the SON of MAN, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Peace..

[mikeboll64]

Abe,

Please address my points.

Is Jesus literally our ONLY Lord?

Can you see that the same “all things” that came FROM God also came THROUGH Jesus Christ?

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,16:33)

Abe, Please address my points. Is Jesus literally our ONLY Lord? Can you see that the same “all things” that came FROM God also came THROUGH Jesus Christ?

Hi Mike,

1 Corinthians 8:5
For even if there are those called gods,

*For even if* even IF

1Cor.8:6 yet for us (Christians) there is but one God, the Father,

*yet for us (Christians)*

Mike,you have to understand this? Its for your salvation…

(Quote)
Is Jesus literally our ONLY Lord?

Did God have a name before He created anything?

Peace brother..

[terraricca]

Quote (abe @ May 18 2013,09:02)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,16:33) Abe, Please address my points. Is Jesus literally our ONLY Lord? Can you see that the same “all things” that came FROM God also came THROUGH Jesus Christ? Hi Mike, 1 Corinthians 8:5 For even if there are those called gods, *For even if*    even IF 1Cor.8:6    yet for us (Christians) there is but one God, the Father, *yet for us (Christians)* Mike,you have to understand this?  Its for your salvation… (Quote) Is Jesus literally our ONLY Lord? Did God have a name before He created anything? Peace brother..

abe

Quote

Mike,you have to understand this? Its for your salvation..

Mike and I ,understand very clearly who his God almighty and his son Jesus Christ our Lord,

it is you that is stuck in your own personal reality ;

if not;TELL US DOES SCRIPTURES TELLS US THAT JESUS CHRIST IS CALLED A GOD (NOW UNDERSTAND WE DO NOT MEAN THAT HE WOULD BE GOD ALMIGHTY THE FATHER )YES OR NO

ALSO CHECK THE PREVIOUS QUOTES

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 16 2013,11:35)

Quote (942767 @ May 15 2013,18:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 16 2013,10:59) Quote (942767 @ May 14 2013,21:05) A.God's representative or viceregent a.of magistrates and judges Okay, now let's see what “judge” meant in the Hebrew culture: Judges 2:16 NET The Lord raised up leaders 1  who delivered them from these robbers. Footnote #1 says: Or more traditionally, “judges” (also in vv. 17, 18 [3x], 19). Since these figures carried out more than a judicial function, also serving as rulers and (in several instances) as military commanders, the translation uses the term “leaders.” You can tell from the scriptures that the traditional “judges” of Israel were “mighty rulers” of Israel.  And since the words “el”, “elohim”, and “theos” actually MEAN “mighty ruler”, you can see how “judges” were sometimes called “gods” in scripture. Satan is also a “mighty ruler”, and therefore called a god in scripture. So the only question you have to ask yourself is this:  Is my Lord Jesus Christ, the second most powerful being in existence, who will rule over heaven and earth with an iron scepter, a “mighty ruler” or not? If he is, then he is rightly called a god – using Biblical terminology.  It doesn't make him the Most High God, but a god (mighty ruler) nonetheless. Yes Mike, he is a Mighty ruler, but no, he is not “a god”.  Is the book of Judges called “gods” or is it called “Judges”. To say that he is “a god” would be inconsistent with the following scriptures:   Quote 1Ti 2:5   For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Quote Jhn 17:1 ¶ These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:   Jhn 17:2   As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.   Jhn 17:3   And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Love in Christ, Marty Oh, so then the following scriptures are ALSO “inconsistent”? John 10:35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers…. 1 Corinthians 8:5 For even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many gods and many lords), Marty, why do accept all of these, but you won't accept that Jesus is called a god?   Especially when God Himself foretold through Isaiah that he WOULD be called a mighty god?   Especially when you can look at Hebrews 1:8 and see as plain as day that he IS called a god?   I just don't get it.

No, Mike, you have a tendency to add “a word here or leave out a word there” in order to promote your agenda.
The scripture does not say “to the Son he saith: “you are a god”.  This is what the scripture states:

Quote

Hbr 1:8   But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.   Hbr 1:9   Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

And the scripture in Isaiah 9 does not say that he is “a mighty god”, it states:

Quote

Isa 9:6   For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.   Isa 9:7   Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this

This states and “his name shall be called”, and does not say that he is called “the Mighty god”.

His name is called these because of the character traits that he exhibits in his life of obedience to God.  Hebrews 1 states that “he is the express image of God's person”, and in John 14 Jesus states  “he who has seen the Father”, and Philippians 2 states “who being in the form of God…”, and God has made him both “Lord and Christ”, but no, he is not “a god”, although “he is Lord over all of heaven and earth and no one came come to the Father but through him, he said:

 

Quote

Jhn 17:1 ¶ These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:   Jhn 17:2   As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.   Jhn 17:3   And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And so, if you say that “he is a god” then according to the scripture above, he would have to be “a false god”, would he not?

He did say this, which may help us to unde
rstand, why God calls His Son God:

Quote

Jhn 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? Jhn 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. Jhn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him

Quote

Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. Jhn 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Quote

Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. Jhn 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Quote

Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi Mike:

And so, yes, the Son is God in that through His life of obedience to God's Word, we has seen God's character manifest through his life, but no, he is not “a god”. He is the “express image of God's person”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ May 18 2013,16:51)

And so, if you say that “he is a god” then according to the scripture above, he would have to be “a false god”, would he not?

Is Satan “a god”, Marty? Is he a “false god”? If so, which SCRIPTURE calls him such? In fact, which scripture calls ANY being a “false god”?

Angels are called gods. You yourself have said so. Are these faithful spirit servants of God Almighty “false gods”?

How about those judges who ruled over Israel FOR God? Were they “false gods”?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ May 18 2013,16:51)

The scripture does not say “to the Son he saith: “you are a god”.   And the scripture in Isaiah 9 does not say that he is “a mighty god”……..

Marty,

You are in semantic denial. I've led you to the water – it's up to you whether or not you will drink.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ May 19 2013,17:18)

Hi Mike: And so, yes, the Son is God in that through His life of obedience to God's Word, we has seen God's character manifest through his life, but no, he is not “a god”.

So in YOUR understanding, when Jesus is called “god”, it refers to him being called “The MOST HIGH God Almighty, Creator of Heavens and Earth”, because we can see that God's character through Jesus?

In MY understanding, when Jesus is called “god”, it refers to him being a DIFFERENT and LESSER mighty one than the Almighty One who created him.

Tell me if I'm wrong. Tell me with all honesty that Jesus ISN'T a mighty one who is less mighty than the Almighty One who created him.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ May 18 2013,06:19)

Quote (abe @ May 18 2013,09:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,16:33) Abe, Please address my points. Is Jesus literally our ONLY Lord? Can you see that the same “all things” that came FROM God also came THROUGH Jesus Christ? Hi Mike, 1 Corinthians 8:5 For even if there are those called gods, *For even if*    even IF 1Cor.8:6    yet for us (Christians) there is but one God, the Father, *yet for us (Christians)* Mike,you have to understand this?  Its for your salvation… (Quote) Is Jesus literally our ONLY Lord? Did God have a name before He created anything? Peace brother.. abe Mike and I ,understand very clearly who his God almighty and his son Jesus Christ our Lord, it is you that is stuck in your own personal reality ;

Agreed, Pierre.  I wonder why Abe can't just DIRECTLY answer the questions above that I've bolded and asked him more than once already.  

Instead, he seems hell-bent on diverting away from those questions with what seems to me to be nonsense.

He is making a big deal of “even IF there are those called gods” – but he is ignoring the part of the verse that says, “indeed there ARE many gods and many lords”.

And I have no idea what to make of his last question.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 20 2013,06:09)

Quote (terraricca @ May 18 2013,06:19) Quote (abe @ May 18 2013,09:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,16:33) Abe, Please address my points. Is Jesus literally our ONLY Lord? Can you see that the same “all things” that came FROM God also came THROUGH Jesus Christ? Hi Mike, 1 Corinthians 8:5 For even if there are those called gods, *For even if*    even IF 1Cor.8:6    yet for us (Christians) there is but one God, the Father, *yet for us (Christians)* Mike,you have to understand this?  Its for your salvation… (Quote) Is Jesus literally our ONLY Lord? Did God have a name before He created anything? Peace brother.. abe Mike and I ,understand very clearly who his God almighty and his son Jesus Christ our Lord, it is you that is stuck in your own personal reality ; Agreed, Pierre.  I wonder why Abe can't just DIRECTLY answer the questions above that I've bolded and asked him more than once already.   Instead, he seems hell-bent on diverting away from those questions with what seems to me to be nonsense. He is making a big deal of “even IF there are those called gods” – but he is ignoring the part of the verse that says, “indeed there ARE many gods and many lords”. And I have no idea what to make of his last question.

Mike

many are still stacked on religion believes and so see all things through the eyes of their religion doctrines,they are afraid to go against what there religion teaches,and so become slave to that religion ,and so by no means can they see the scriptures in the true reality as it is written, God as made war to defend his written word throughout the ages for us today to have the truth and so be saved ,Christ did not give his life to save religion but to save those that believe him ,in truth ,

this is a fight that we all must face,it is again ” DEAD OR LIVE” which is for us to chose .

[mikeboll64]

Marty? Abe?

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