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Could be for the Babylonians, I don’t know. Many think it is about the Antichrist. I would like to know why they think that. I will give it a good read when I have time.
This could end in a war between Islam and Europe as Islam wants to spread to the whole Earth and Europe would be the logical next place. Also, the Ottoman Empire embraced large parts of Europe centuries ago. We will see.
T8….THERE IS A SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS, JUDHA, ie the Jews, SHALL BE THE SPARK, ISRAEL (US AND UK) SHALL BE THE FLAME AND EDOM THE STUBBLE. US AND GREAT BRITTIAN ARE THE DECEDENTS OF THE KINGDOM OF ISREAL ( LOST TEN TRIBES OR SHEEP OF the HOUSE OF ISREAL) So while the JEWS MAY BE THE SPARK, IT WELL MAY BE US THAT TRULY DESTORY THEM IN THE END. I am not preaching this as a fact but just my speculation.
peace and love to you and yours. …………………gene
t8
Could be for the Babylonians, I don’t know. Many think it is about the Antichrist. I would like to know why they think that. I will give it a good read when I have time.
the antichrist ?
the only scriptures that talks about a antichrist are ;these
1Jn 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
2Jn 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.and they have nothing to do with Islam ;only religion made that up
now;1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.
if you think this is a reference to Islam ;hold your horses ;any man alive since Christ gospel ;could be a antichrist if he did not followed the truth in scriptures according to the truth that Jesus had preached ;
JN 3:19 “This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
JN 3:20 “ For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
JN 3:21 “But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”so according to those scriptures Islam and all the chrisomdom can be declared antichrist including the jews /and what not
for only the true believers are not
You have no Old Testament scriptures about the Antichrist. Does it not mention, refer, or even allude to him?
Daniel 7:8
I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.Daniel 7:20
And about the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn that came up and before which three of them fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and that seemed greater than its companions.Daniel 7:22-25
Until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom. “Thus he said: ‘As for the fourth beast, there shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be different from all the kingdoms, and it shall devour the whole earth, and trample it down, and break it to pieces. As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings shall arise, and another shall arise after them; he shall be different from the former ones, and shall put down three kings. He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.Daniel 9:27
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”Daniel 11:37
He shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women. He shall not pay attention to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all.Daniel 11:31
Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the regular burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate.Daniel 11:44
But news from the east and the north shall alarm him, and he shall go out with great fury to destroy and devote many to destruction.Daniel 12:11
And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.The rapid rise of ISIS sees the self-named Caliphate now reaching into an area from Algeria to Afghanistan
The interesting thing about the speed at which this group have spread reminds me of the description of the Beast in Revelation.
Revelation 13:2
The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.Notice that it resembled a leopard, the same description for the Grecian Empire in Daniel’s vision.
Daniel 7:4 The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle’s wings… = Babylon
Daniel 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear… = Media Persia
Daniel 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard… = GreeceThe leopard is a fast animal and Alexander The Great conquered the known world faster than anyone before him and after him. Look at the description of Alexander in Daniel 8:4-8 who is symbolised here as the goat with the Persians symbolized here as a ram:
4 I saw the ram butting westward, northward, and southward, and no other beasts could stand before him nor was there anyone to rescue from his power, but he did as he pleased and magnified himself.
5 While I was observing, behold, a male goat was coming from the west over the surface of the whole earth without touching the ground; and the goat had a conspicuous horn between his eyes.
6 He came up to the ram that had the two horns, which I had seen standing in front of the canal, and rushed at him in his mighty wrath.…
7 I saw him come beside the ram, and he was enraged at him; and he struck the ram and shattered his two horns, and the ram had no strength to withstand him. So he hurled him to the ground and trampled on him, and there was none to rescue the ram from his power.
8 Then the male goat magnified himself exceedingly
Notice that the goat did not touch the ground and it rushed at the ram with his mighty wrath. What is described here is the speed and swiftness of Alexander’s conquests and history bears this out. The Beast that rises out of the sea as described in Revelation has all the features of the beasts mentioned in Daniel. Perhaps the Beast in Revelation is talking about all the beasts as one Beast. Seven heads and 10 horns. After all, we know there will be seven kingdoms/empires.
Revelation 13:2
The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.So the beast is quick and swift like a leopard, has big feet like a bear to trample on, and a mouth of a lion so that it speaks great things. This Beast is given Satan’s throne and has great authority. So where is Satan’s throne?
Revelation 2:12
“To the angel of the church in Pergamum write: ‘I know your works, and where you dwell… where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to my name, and did not deny my faith even in the days in which Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.’Pergamum is in Turkey which is where Emperor Constantine relocated the capital of the Roman Empire and named after himself. It was the seat of the Byzantine period of the Roman Empire as well as the seat of government for the Ottoman Empire. Further, Turkey was actually part of every head of the Beast from Egypt through to the Ottoman Empire.
Below is a map showing the swift spread of ISIS to date. It seems that the Middle East is like dry straw and Islamic fundamentalism is the spark. If nothing substantial is done to stop the spread of ISIS, it should find fertile ground in many more areas in the Middle East. If it gets big enough, it could well become the next empire in the region.
Next is a map showing the Ottoman Empire at its height.
[caption id="attachment_785225" align="alignnone" width="550"]
The Ottoman Empire In 1683[/caption]Perhaps ISIS could grow and become the eighth kingdom mentioned in Revelation. If not, it could easily be some other Islamic Empire that involves Iran for example.
There is a clue in Revelation 17:10-:
10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.
11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.The sixth kingdom was Rome and one more was to arise after that. However, there is also an eighth kingdom and it is of the seventh. From Babylon to Rome each kingdom was succeeded by the next. Rome itself was succeeded by the Ottoman Empire which would place it as the seventh kingdom that was to come in John’s day. It was an Islamic Caliphate that lasted for around 500 years and ruled over large swathes of the Middle East and Europe. It finally died just after WWI. However, it looks like it may be coming back to life. If ISIS or another Islamic Kingdom arises in the Middle East, then it could be said that it is the eighth and of the seventh and we know that one of the heads of the Beast received a deadly wound and then comes back to life.
So far with the spread of ISIS we have seen great oppression, torture, murder, crucifixions, and beheadings. This has all the hallmarks of heading into the Tribulation period spoken of by John.
Christians are once again targeted by ISIS
ISIS kidnap at least 90 people from Christian villages in Syria, human rights watchdog reveals
- Islamic State militants launched dawn raid on Syrian villages, reports claim
- Sources say at least 90 have been abducted – mainly women and children
- Up to 3,000 people are said to have been ‘displaced’ as a result of the raid
@t8 I have noticed that you say the eighth king is of the seventh, when scripture actually says that the eighth king is of the seven. Your wording implies that the eighth king is directly of the seventh king when scripture says the eighth king is of kings 1-7 (all of them)…not just of the seventh king. I found these commentaries on biblehub, concerning Rev.17:11
Pulpit Commentary
Verse 11. – And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition; and the beast (neuter, θηρίον) that was and is not, he himself is also an eighth (masculine), and is of (ἐκ, out of) the seven, etc. We may note (1) that “eighth” refers to “king” in ver. 10, being masculine gender; (2) the absence of the article before ὄγδος, “eighth,” shows that this is not the eighth in a successive series, in which the kings already mentioned form the first seven. The Revised Version probably gives the correct meaning, “is of the seven;” that is, the beast himself consists of, and is formed by, what has been denoted by the seven kings. We have already interpreted the beast as the worldly power – Satan in his capacity of “prince of this world.” We have also shown that the “seven kings” describes this worldly power as it exists throughout all ages. This verse, therefore, sums up and reasserts briefly what has been already virtually intimated in the symbolism employed, viz. that the beast is the sum total of what has been described under the form of five kings, then one king, and then one king again (ver. 10). His final doom is also reasserted, “he goeth into perdition” (cf. ver. 8 and Revelation 19:20)
Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth,…. That was in embryo in John’s time, and yet was not come to its power and grandeur, is the eighth king; and this is the Papacy, which takes the name of the beast, because it is the head of the beast, and the only surviving head of the beast, or Roman empire, now become Papal: and is of the seven; one of the seven heads, and the last of them, and is an idolatrous one, as the rest were, requiring and encouraging the worship of angels, of the virgin Mary, and saints parted: the pope of Rome is the eighth king, and seventh head, the latter with respect to his temporal power, and the former with respect to his ecclesiastical authority; for his government is quite of a different sort from the rest, being of a mixed kind, partly civil, and partly ecclesiastical, and therefore is signified by two beasts in the thirteenth chapter: and goes into perdition; being the son of perdition, and is justly deserving of it; See Gill on Revelation 17:8.
What say you?
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Grasshopper@t8 I have noticed that you say the eighth king is of the seventh, when scripture actually says that the eighth king is of the seven. Your wording implies that the eighth king is directly of the seventh king when scripture says the eighth king is of kings 1-7 (all of them)…not just of the seventh king. I found these commentaries on biblehub, concerning Rev.17:11
Good point, it may not necessarily be the seventh, but could be a mixture of all the previous seven.
That said, it does say that one of the heads received a deadly wound and that head was healed. Further, it says the one that was, is not, and is to come. So one of those kingdoms dies and then comes back to life according to that part of the text.
If I look at all seven kingdoms, it seems to me that the one to likely rise again would be the Islamic Kingdom, (Ottoman Empire) according to what I see in the Middle East. However, Iran (Persia) could rise again too. Iran is opposed to ISIS so if ISIS doesn’t fulfil their ambitions of an Islamic Caliphate, then Iran could take up the void that is left. Babylon in Iraq might rise again too, but more unlikely IMO, but things change fast in that part of the world. I can’t see Egypt rising again and nor can I see Assyria or Greece. However, most of these kingdoms overlapped each other, so I guess we can assume that the same general area is where the last beast will be. Further, it says, the Beast rose out of the Great Sea which is the Mediterranean Sea.
The thing to note though is the whole area is dominated by Islam today and as far back as the Ottoman Empire. So I believe Islam will play a major role in Bible Prophecy. Especially when one considers that one of the main tenets of Islam is that God has no son. Which we know is antichrist.
But Turkey (Pergamum) could play a major part as that is where Satan’s throne was according to John who wrote Revelation. Turkey (Constantinople/Istanbul) was the capital for both the Roman and Ottoman empires. Could it be the capital of the next empire before the Antichrist sits in the Holy Place.
We will see. Things are moving fast in that part of the world.
t8
You have no Old Testament scriptures about the Antichrist. Does it not mention, refer, or even allude to him?
those kings are not antichrist for they did not come out of the congregation of believers after Christ ,
those nations are the gentiles nations that are called to be extract of their riches meaning the ones that receive life through Christ sacrifice ,
but this is only my understanding
Oh, I see. You are saying that there is no Antichrist as such, rather that there are antichrists who is anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ or the Father and the son. Further, you define Antichrist as practically anyone who denies or rejects Christ.
Is that right?
1Jn 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to usyou tell me how you can have antichrist before Christ if they are to come out of the followers of Christ ?
and please do not interpret my words what i really do not say ; the above scriptures are my reference ;of what I believe
@t8
Things are moving fast in that part of the world.
VERY!
Read this article:
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
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GrasshopperNow you have lost me. BTW, I was asking if that is what you believed, not telling you that is what you believe. Sometimes it is quicker to just ask.
t8
I think I just explain what I believe within my two posts to you ,
I cannot see how I can say it better ,
what i can say is this ;the antichrist name given to all others then christians would be a error ,for Muslims and buddhist ,and whatever are all religions man made ,even the christian religion sects are man made but they made it out of the message of the apostles and that make them apostates ,antichrist,and opposed to the truth of God ,and so part of the world ,and it is those sects that came up with all those names for all who does not fit their views ,and so create all sorts of combinations to blame others ,so no one look at them to see if they are themselves of God or of the devil , like I say ISIS does not impress me at all for they are a bunch of loosers , a 20 minutes of fame ,thats all ,
Hi Grasshopper. I thought I made a post regarding the Vatican too, but I mustn’t have submitted it and now it is gone. lol.
To me, the Vatican is more suited as a Babylon prospect than the Beast. I could be wrong, but the woman clothed in crimson and purple, and is rooted in the false religion of Babylon is a pretty good description of the Vatican. Not saying it is though.
I will give that page a read later when I have the time. 🙂
Also, one of the main long-term objectives of ISIS is to destroy Rome and attack Israel. In their own words, they want to conquer the Romans.
And we must remember, that the Beast hates this woman and burns her with fire. Others say it is Mecca, Jerusalem, or New York. Personally, I think it resides in the Middle East and possibly southern Europe as the Beast is in that area, and the woman rides the back of the Beast.
Okay, I too believe those 2 scriptures.
And how you can have antichrist before Christ if they are to come out of the followers of Christ ?
Antichrists could exist from any time after Christ. I agree too. Not sure what you are getting at though. But yes, I agree.
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