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thinker……….You are greatly loved, dump the trinitarian garbage brother.
Peace and love to you and yours brother………………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ July 27 2009,11:54) WJ……… Trinitarian “Christianity”, can not boast either, look at all the murders and tortures , they have committed in history all in the name of Jesus. Even in our modern times murdering between them selves, example (Ireland ). If we are of GOD we are different then all and a new creation, moved by the love of GOD in US, no longer able to Hate. There are those of Islam and true Christainity who are moved by Love and abhor violence of any kind. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
GeneThere you go again. Defending BD. Why don't you speak against BD for not believing in Jesus death, burial and resurrection? (Sorry Gene, I did not see your earlier post so I retract this statement).
However…
I didn't say that the crusades or any of the heneous acts committed by “so-called” Christians in the name of Christianity was God.
I said the NT Christians we read of in Acts and the other NT scriptures is where True Christianity began and where the term Christians was first mentioned.
Islam has nothing to do with the Christianity of the Bible.
It seems you would rather defend a Muslim over a Christian who believes in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus the Son of God.
WJ
Quote (Gene @ July 28 2009,03:44) DB………..if you say you except the word of Jesus, then except them brother> With Jesus it is not a matter of religions, but a matter of truth. There is no Jew or Gentile , only the (truth) of GOD, abounding in love for all. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Gene I have to disagree with you here. The Jew's are the people of God and in Romans it says that the Jew's will be grafted in again. God is not finished with His People. They have been punished by God very badly, but it also says that this generation will not pass away til all will be fulfilled. A generation is 70 years. Israel became a nation again in 1948 add 70 years to that and we have 2018. Nine bad years on the way. The end time prophecy is a bad time to come. I do not have a lot of talent on the prophecy, but Georg does. He has several articles under that tread. No one has replied to it, so He got discouraged and has never posted again.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Gene @ July 28 2009,04:03) thinker……….You are greatly loved, dump the trinitarian garbage brother. Peace and love to you and yours brother………………………..gene
Gene,
I think your theology is “garbage” but I respect you enough to keep my mouth shut. Are you trying to add to your tiles?thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,04:05) Quote (Gene @ July 27 2009,11:54) WJ……… Trinitarian “Christianity”, can not boast either, look at all the murders and tortures , they have committed in history all in the name of Jesus. Even in our modern times murdering between them selves, example (Ireland ). If we are of GOD we are different then all and a new creation, moved by the love of GOD in US, no longer able to Hate. There are those of Islam and true Christainity who are moved by Love and abhor violence of any kind. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
GeneThere you go again. Defending BD. Why don't you speak against BD for not believing in Jesus death, burial and resurrection?
I didn't say that the crusades or any of the heneous acts committed by “so-called” Christians in the name of Christianity was God.
I said the NT Christians we read of in Acts and the other NT scriptures is where True Christianity began and where the term Christians was first mentioned.
Islam has nothing to do with the Christianity of the Bible.
It seems you would rather defend a Muslim over a Christian who believes in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus the Son of God.
WJ
Yes WJ,
And I am having serious doubts about Gene lately. He calls trinitarianism “garbage” but gives bd a free pass on his anti-christian beliefs. How could Gene call himself a “Chiristian” and side with one who denies that Christ was crucified?
thinker
Thinker………It doesn't matter if i add to my tiles, or not, that up to Nick to use his power as he sees fit. It's the truth that matters to me, and i believe Nick thinks trinitarian belief is garbage also. While i have said i don't hate anyone that doesn't mean i don't hate what they say. Even Jesus expressed that in revelations. Wj thinks i defend Islam over Christianity which is not true, of course He is thinking (TRINITARIANS) are true Christians which i believe they are not, with that said i will say at Least they believe in ONLY ONE GOD , which i also agree with, But does that mean i agree with all of Islam teachings, i fail to see where i have ever said that. If i have please post it. IMO
peace and love ………………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ July 27 2009,12:37) Thinker………It doesn't matter if i add to my tiles, or not, that up to Nick to use his power as he sees fit. It's the truth that matters to me, and i believe Nick thinks trinitarian belief is garbage also. While i have said i don't hate anyone that doesn't mean i don't hate what they say. Even Jesus expressed that in revelations. Wj thinks i defend Islam over Christianity which is not true, of course He is thinking (TRINITARIANS) are true Christians which i believe they are not, with that said i will say at Least they believe in ONLY ONE GOD , which i also agree with, But does that mean i agree with all of Islam teachings, i fail to see where i have ever said that. If i have please post it. IMO peace and love ………………………..gene
GBTell me what you think a “True Christian” is?
WJ
Thinker ……….Your and WJ are profiling Here, I was just looking at only one aspect of teaching (Islam believe in ONE GOD) so do I, While on the other Hand YOU believe IN THREE GODS (TRINITARIANISM) I and many Here do NOT> They are more right then YOU in this (ONE) thing, IMO. Thats my (ONLY) point and to try to spread it to other views is simply a device to discredit me a typical trinitarian strategy . Show me where i have went beyond this (Post it). IMO
peace and love………………gene
Quote (Gene @ July 28 2009,04:37) Thinker………It doesn't matter if i add to my tiles, or not, that up to Nick to use his power as he sees fit. It's the truth that matters to me, and i believe Nick thinks trinitarian belief is garbage also. While i have said i don't hate anyone that doesn't mean i don't hate what they say. Even Jesus expressed that in revelations. Wj thinks i defend Islam over Christianity which is not true, of course He is thinking (TRINITARIANS) are true Christians which i believe they are not, with that said i will say at Least they believe in ONLY ONE GOD , which i also agree with, But does that mean i agree with all of Islam teachings, i fail to see where i have ever said that. If i have please post it. IMO peace and love ………………………..gene
The Scripture says that a “fool speaks all his mind.”thinker
WJ…………A true Christian is one who Has GOD”S Spirit Guiding HIM, who has excepted Christ Jesus' payment for His sins and believes in Him and believes in what He said that THERE is (ONLY) ONE TRUE GOD> So a trinitarian who believes in more then ONE TRUE GOD can not be a TRUE Christian or they would Believe in what Jesus SAID. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ July 28 2009,04:52) Thinker ……….Your and WJ are profiling Here, I was just looking at only one aspect of teaching (Islam believe in ONE GOD) so do I, While on the other Hand YOU believe IN THREE GODS (TRINITARIANISM) I and many Here do NOT> They are more right then YOU in this (ONE) thing, IMO. Thats my (ONLY) point and to try to spread it to other views is simply a device to discredit me a typical trinitarian strategy . Show me where i have went beyond this (Post it). IMO peace and love………………gene
Gene,
It is you who is “profiling” by saying that trinitarians believe in three gods. Please note that the Islamic website I provided below says that trinitarianism is “monotheistic” and “Christian.”Quote Some of the biggest misconceptions that many non-Muslims have about Islam have to do with the word “Allah.” For various reasons, many people have come to believe that Muslims worship a different God than Christians and Jews. This is totally false, since “Allah” is simply the Arabic word for “God” – and there is only One God. Let there be no doubt – Muslims worship the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus – peace be upon them all. However, it is certainly true that Jews, Christians and Muslims all have different concepts of Almighty God. For example, Muslims – like Jews – reject the Christian beliefs of the Trinity and the Divine Incarnation. This, however, does not mean that each of these three religions worships a different God – because, as we have already said, there is only One True God. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be “Abrahamic Faiths”, and all of them are also classified as “monotheistic.” However, Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas. http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/195/
Muslims even acknowledge that trinitarians are monotheistic. It says that the belief in the Trinity is “Christian” and is also classified as “Monotheistic.” So take the “profiling” beam out of your own eye!
thinker
Quote (Gene @ July 28 2009,05:01) WJ…………A true Christian is one who Has GOD”S Spirit Guiding HIM, who has excepted Christ Jesus' payment for His sins and believes in Him and believes in what He said that THERE is (ONLY) ONE TRUE GOD> So a trinitarian who believes in more then ONE TRUE GOD can not be a TRUE Christian or they would Believe in what Jesus SAID. IMO peace and love…………………….gene
Except trinitarians do not believe in more than one God. You must take your complaint to the apostle John for he said that the Son of God is the “true God and eternal life.”Quote …and we have known that the Son of God is come, and hath given us a mind, that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ; this one is the true God and the eternal life! (1 John 5:20) John clearly said that Jesus Christ is the “true God and eternal life.”
thinker
Quote (Gene @ July 27 2009,13:01) WJ…………A true Christian is one who Has GOD”S Spirit Guiding HIM, who has excepted Christ Jesus' payment for His sins and believes in Him and believes in what He said that THERE is (ONLY) ONE TRUE GOD> So a trinitarian who believes in more then ONE TRUE GOD can not be a TRUE Christian or they would Believe in what Jesus SAID. IMO peace and love…………………….gene
Hi GeneTrinitarians believe everything you just said.
It is you who have denied that the scriptures call Jesus God!
So who is the “True Christian”?
WJ
WJ……….Show me one scripture where Jesus said (I AM A GOD) , there are none, but i can show you as many here have already where Jesus said (THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD) along with many more Such Scriptures, You have none but we have many and even Jesus own words, but you try to take something out of John to Justify your whole Belief system. But unable to except the obvious scriptures that show that there is (ONLY) ONE GOD, interesting.
peace and love………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ July 28 2009,05:42) WJ……….Show me one scripture where Jesus said (I AM A GOD) , there are none, but i can show you as many here have already where Jesus said (THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD) along with many more Such Scriptures, You have none but we have many and even Jesus own words, but you try to take something out of John to Justify your whole Belief system. But unable to except the obvious scriptures that show that there is (ONLY) ONE GOD, interesting. peace and love………………….gene
Before Abraham was I AM (John 8:58).thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,03:34) Hi BD Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,02:28) What's funny is you call Christians and Jews unbelievers the fact is you cant understand spiritual things. Christians and Jews are not Unbelievers.
What is a Christian? True believers according to the scriptures is found in the NT, those who believe Jesus died for their sins and rose again.Read the book of Acts, that is where Christianity begins and where the term “Christians” was first mentioned.
The quotes you make above is contradictory of what the Qoran teaches.
That is not what the Qoran teaches.
Qur'an (2:191-193) – “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]…and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”
The unbelievers are those who do not submit to Allah and the Islamic faith.
Qur'an (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”.
This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').
WJ
WJ,I could point out several Christian atrocities such as the inquisition, salem witch trials…etc but let's just say many of these atrocites were not a matter of defense but of offense to God and man.
Also, You seem to not want to read the Quran with a Pure heart because if you did you would see that the scriptures you point out are defensive
The Quran explains that if they cease fighting you then cease fighting them.
(2) And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #193)Quote (thethinker @ July 28 2009,05:07) Quote (Gene @ July 28 2009,04:52) Thinker ……….Your and WJ are profiling Here, I was just looking at only one aspect of teaching (Islam believe in ONE GOD) so do I, While on the other Hand YOU believe IN THREE GODS (TRINITARIANISM) I and many Here do NOT> They are more right then YOU in this (ONE) thing, IMO. Thats my (ONLY) point and to try to spread it to other views is simply a device to discredit me a typical trinitarian strategy . Show me where i have went beyond this (Post it). IMO peace and love………………gene
Gene,
It is you who is “profiling” by saying that trinitarians believe in three gods. Please note that the Islamic website I provided below says that trinitarianism is “monotheistic” and “Christian.”Quote Some of the biggest misconceptions that many non-Muslims have about Islam have to do with the word “Allah.” For various reasons, many people have come to believe that Muslims worship a different God than Christians and Jews. This is totally false, since “Allah” is simply the Arabic word for “God” – and there is only One God. Let there be no doubt – Muslims worship the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus – peace be upon them all. However, it is certainly true that Jews, Christians and Muslims all have different concepts of Almighty God. For example, Muslims – like Jews – reject the Christian beliefs of the Trinity and the Divine Incarnation. This, however, does not mean that each of these three religions worships a different God – because, as we have already said, there is only One True God. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be “Abrahamic Faiths”, and all of them are also classified as “monotheistic.” However, Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas. http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/195/
Muslims even acknowledge that trinitarians are monotheistic. It says that the belief in the Trinity is “Christian” and is also classified as “Monotheistic.” So take the “profiling” beam out of your own eye!
thinker
you should have put in bold writing this part of your quoteIslam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas.
The trinity is such a corruption Jesus is a being that you call God
The Father is another being that you call God
and the Holy Spirit is a third being that you call God
You believe in 3 distinct beings who rule.
What a corruption!
Quote (thethinker @ July 28 2009,05:11) Quote (Gene @ July 28 2009,05:01) WJ…………A true Christian is one who Has GOD”S Spirit Guiding HIM, who has excepted Christ Jesus' payment for His sins and believes in Him and believes in what He said that THERE is (ONLY) ONE TRUE GOD> So a trinitarian who believes in more then ONE TRUE GOD can not be a TRUE Christian or they would Believe in what Jesus SAID. IMO peace and love…………………….gene
Except trinitarians do not believe in more than one God. You must take your complaint to the apostle John for he said that the Son of God is the “true God and eternal life.”Quote …and we have known that the Son of God is come, and hath given us a mind, that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ; this one is the true God and the eternal life! (1 John 5:20) John clearly said that Jesus Christ is the “true God and eternal life.”
thinker
Do you know what a semi colon is?; The text is not talking about Jesus being the true God as the verse is not about Jesus it is about God.
1 John 5 (Contemporary English Version)
20 We know that Jesus Christ the Son of God has come and has shown us the true God. And because of Jesus, we now belong to the true God who gives eternal life.
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,14:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,03:34) Hi BD Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,02:28) What's funny is you call Christians and Jews unbelievers the fact is you cant understand spiritual things. Christians and Jews are not Unbelievers.
What is a Christian? True believers according to the scriptures is found in the NT, those who believe Jesus died for their sins and rose again.Read the book of Acts, that is where Christianity begins and where the term “Christians” was first mentioned.
The quotes you make above is contradictory of what the Qoran teaches.
That is not what the Qoran teaches.
Qur'an (2:191-193) – “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]…and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”
The unbelievers are those who do not submit to Allah and the Islamic faith.
Qur'an (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”.
This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').
WJ
WJ,I could point out several Christian atrocities such as the inquisition, salem witch trials…etc but let's just say many of these atrocites were not a matter of defense but of offense to God and man.
Also, You seem to not want to read the Quran with a Pure heart because if you did you would see that the scriptures you point out are defensive
The Quran explains that if they cease fighting you then cease fighting them.
(2) And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #193)
BDAgain you would be missing the point that those events had nothing to do with Biblical Christianity found in the scriptures.
Many attrocities have been committed in the name of God and Jesus which have nothing to do with him.
Read the Acts and find that men gave their lives for preaching Jesus Christ and him crucified without ever raising a sword!
The quote you just quoted from the qoran says to fight untill all believe in Allah, if they cease meaning “surrender” then they quite fighting.
WJ
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