Is the pope your father?

[bodhitharta]

After many attempts to get CA, to answer this question I felt I would put it in a place hard to avoid. In-fact WJ and TT should also answer.

The word POPE means Father and if this is your leader you call him Father and if you don't call him Father but believe in the Father of the same Doctrine you believe in, tell me who is your Father?

[bodhitharta]

What! No love for the Pope? CA, TT, WJ

[bodhitharta]

CA, TT, WJ

Is the Pope your Father?

Why won't any of you answer this question?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 17 2009,17:25)

After many attempts to get CA, to answer this question I felt I would put it in a place hard to avoid. In-fact WJ and TT should also answer. The word POPE means Father and if this is your leader you call him Father and if you don't call him Father but believe in the Father of the same Doctrine you believe in, tell me who is your Father?

BD

I have many Fathers in the Faith!

And rest assured it is not Allah or his false prophet Mohomad!

Abraham is the Father of our faith!

“Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring–not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. “He is the father of us all. Rom 4:16

Jesus is also my Father in the faith…

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor,* Mighty God, “Everlasting Father“, Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6

Paul is one of our Forefathers of the faith as well as Ignatius and many others!

Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, “you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel“. 1 Cor 4:15

As usual though you are here to build strawman arguments against what you know nothing about nor have any part of!

WJ

[GeneBalthrop]

WJ………So i guess when Jesus said call (NO) Man you FATHER, but ONE is YOUR FATHER even GOD Who is IN Heaven. He really did not mean it then right? Or is this just another scripture you throw out of your bibles. Why no just do what Jesus said and call no man you father? DO you really believe what He says?. If i were you i would take what Jesus said to heart first and most importantly.

gene

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 28 2009,16:20)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 17 2009,17:25) After many attempts to get CA, to answer this question I felt I would put it in a place hard to avoid. In-fact WJ and TT should also answer. The word POPE means Father and if this is your leader you call him Father and if you don't call him Father but believe in the Father of the same Doctrine you believe in, tell me who is your Father? BD I have many Fathers in the Faith! And rest assured it is not Allah or his false prophet Mohomad! Abraham is the Father of our faith! “Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring–not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. “He is the father of us all. Rom 4:16 Jesus is also my Father in the faith… For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor,* Mighty God, “Everlasting Father“, Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6 Paul is one of our Forefathers of the faith as well as Ignatius and many others! Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, “you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel“. 1 Cor 4:15 As usual though you are here to build strawman arguments against what you know nothing about nor have any part of! WJ

Matthew 23 (King James Version)

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Just to let you know in Islam no one is called “Father”, Teacher or Master just as Christ commanded but as you freely admit you have many fathers and inded you do as well as many gods

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 28 2009,16:20)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 17 2009,17:25) After many attempts to get CA, to answer this question I felt I would put it in a place hard to avoid. In-fact WJ and TT should also answer. The word POPE means Father and if this is your leader you call him Father and if you don't call him Father but believe in the Father of the same Doctrine you believe in, tell me who is your Father? BD I have many Fathers in the Faith! And rest assured it is not Allah or his false prophet Mohomad! Abraham is the Father of our faith! “Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring–not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. “He is the father of us all. Rom 4:16 Jesus is also my Father in the faith… For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor,* Mighty God, “Everlasting Father“, Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6 Paul is one of our Forefathers of the faith as well as Ignatius and many others! Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, “you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel“. 1 Cor 4:15 As usual though you are here to build strawman arguments against what you know nothing about nor have any part of! WJ

BTW,

Thanks for having the guts to answer at least partly the question but strictly speaking is the POPE your HOLY FATHER as he is called?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene @ Sep. 28 2009,00:43)

WJ………So i guess when Jesus said call (NO) Man you FATHER, but ONE is YOUR FATHER even GOD Who is IN Heaven. He really did not mean it then right?  Or is this just another scripture you throw out of your bibles. Why no just do what Jesus said and call no man you father? DO you really believe what He says?. If i were you i would take what Jesus said to heart first and most importantly. gene

Gene

Is Abraham your Father?

Is it wrong to call your natural Father, Father?

Then know that Jesus is making the distinction between the heavenly Father and earthly Fathers!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 28 2009,00:57)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 28 2009,16:20) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 17 2009,17:25) After many attempts to get CA, to answer this question I felt I would put it in a place hard to avoid. In-fact WJ and TT should also answer. The word POPE means Father and if this is your leader you call him Father and if you don't call him Father but believe in the Father of the same Doctrine you believe in, tell me who is your Father? BD I have many Fathers in the Faith! And rest assured it is not Allah or his false prophet Mohomad! Abraham is the Father of our faith! “Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring–not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. “He is the father of us all. Rom 4:16 Jesus is also my Father in the faith… For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor,* Mighty God, “Everlasting Father“, Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6 Paul is one of our Forefathers of the faith as well as Ignatius and many others! Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, “you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel“. 1 Cor 4:15 As usual though you are here to build strawman arguments against what you know nothing about nor have any part of! WJ BTW, Thanks for having the guts to answer at least partly the question but strictly speaking is the POPE your HOLY FATHER as he is called?

BD

Strictly speaking I am not a Catholic, I am a born again Christian.

I have Fathers in the faith who I respect and mentor me here and now, and they are not the Pope!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene @ Sep. 28 2009,00:43)

WJ………So i guess when Jesus said call (NO) Man you FATHER, but ONE is YOUR FATHER even GOD Who is IN Heaven. He really did not mean it then right?  Or is this just another scripture you throw out of your bibles. Why no just do what Jesus said and call no man you father? DO you really believe what He says?. If i were you i would take what Jesus said to heart first and most importantly. gene

Gene

BTW, you make a pretty good Muslim since you seldom disagree with BD!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 28 2009,00:56)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 28 2009,16:20) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 17 2009,17:25) After many attempts to get CA, to answer this question I felt I would put it in a place hard to avoid. In-fact WJ and TT should also answer. The word POPE means Father and if this is your leader you call him Father and if you don't call him Father but believe in the Father of the same Doctrine you believe in, tell me who is your Father? BD I have many Fathers in the Faith! And rest assured it is not Allah or his false prophet Mohomad! Abraham is the Father of our faith! “Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring–not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. “He is the father of us all. Rom 4:16 Jesus is also my Father in the faith… For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor,* Mighty God, “Everlasting Father“, Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6 Paul is one of our Forefathers of the faith as well as Ignatius and many others! Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, “you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel“. 1 Cor 4:15 As usual though you are here to build strawman arguments against what you know nothing about nor have any part of! WJ Matthew 23 (King James Version) 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Just to let you know in Islam no one is called “Father”, Teacher or Master just as Christ commanded but as you freely admit you have many fathers and inded you do as well as many gods

And you have just admitted that Abraham is not your Father, therfore you have nothing to do with the Faith of the Gospel, for Abraham is our Father of the Faith and not Ishmael!

WJ

[GeneBalthrop]

WJ………I am NOT a Muslim, nor a Buddhist, nor a TRINITARIAN, there are things i strongly disagree with them all with, as I have posted here.  But to say any of them can't post some truths is also false. Trying to pit me as more a Muslim then a Christian is a pure LIE and a good try on your part to some how discredit me. I would expect nothing Less from a “TRINITARIAN” false teacher.

BTW…….How many “Spiritual” Fathers do you HAVE , I am told I have (ONLY) ONE by Jesus. But then again when you have attracted other loves other then your (First Love) it makes sense you see things the way you do. IMO

gene

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 28 2009,19:02)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 28 2009,00:57) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 28 2009,16:20) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 17 2009,17:25) After many attempts to get CA, to answer this question I felt I would put it in a place hard to avoid. In-fact WJ and TT should also answer. The word POPE means Father and if this is your leader you call him Father and if you don't call him Father but believe in the Father of the same Doctrine you believe in, tell me who is your Father? BD I have many Fathers in the Faith! And rest assured it is not Allah or his false prophet Mohomad! Abraham is the Father of our faith! “Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring–not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. “He is the father of us all. Rom 4:16 Jesus is also my Father in the faith… For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor,* Mighty God, “Everlasting Father“, Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6 Paul is one of our Forefathers of the faith as well as Ignatius and many others! Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, “you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel“. 1 Cor 4:15 As usual though you are here to build strawman arguments against what you know nothing about nor have any part of! WJ BTW, Thanks for having the guts to answer at least partly the question but strictly speaking is the POPE your HOLY FATHER as he is called? BD Strictly speaking I am not a Catholic, I am a born again Christian. I have Fathers in the faith who I respect and mentor me here and now, and they are not the Pope! WJ

So you deny the Pope outright?

Who are your Fathers in the faith? How many do you have?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene @ Sep. 28 2009,10:52)

WJ………I am NOT a Muslim, nor a Buddhist, nor a TRINITARIAN, there are things i strongly disagree with them all with, as I have posted here.  But to say any of them can't post some truths is also false. Trying to pit me as more a Muslim then a Christian is a pure LIE and a good try on your part to some how discredit me. I would expect nothing Less from a “TRINITARIAN” false teacher. BTW…….How many “Spiritual” Fathers do you HAVE , I am told I have (ONLY) ONE by Jesus. But then again when you have attracted other loves other then your (First Love) it makes sense you see things the way you do. IMO gene

Gene

My point is you can probably count on one hand the times that you have disagreed with the Muslim BD.

In fact deny it if you like, but IMO you are more of a cheer leader for him than not.

As far as Spirital Fathers, I have shown you scriptures where men on earth can be Spiritual Fathers.

Do you deny those scritpures as being true or are they just another part of the scriptures that you consider corrupted?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

BD

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 28 2009,15:58)

So you deny the Pope outright?

I do not deny the Pope may be [a] Father, but I deny that he is my Father for the word Father entails more than just a title!

The Greek word for Father is “Strong's G3962 – patēr and means

1) generator or male ancestor

a) either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents

b) “a more remote ancestor, the founder of a family or tribe, progenitor of a people, forefather: so Abraham is called, Jacob and David“

1) fathers i.e. ancestors, forefathers, “founders of a nation“

c)”one advanced in years, a senior“

And contrary to what you or Gene may believe, the word is not exclusive to our Heavenly Father!

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 28 2009,15:58)

Who are your Fathers in the faith? How many do you have?

As you can see by the definition that our Fathers can include all of the Patriarchs and the Apostles of the faith, for again even Paul said he was a Father to those he had espoused to Christ!

Many Christians walk around today not understanding the principle of Spiritual leadership in the Body of Christ, the Church, and therefore they are accountable to no one for checks and balances in their lives. If Fatherly leadership is not needed then the writings of the Apostles to the Churches is in vain!

To some degree I agree with CA, but not to the point of making any man their final authority or seeing them as infallible.

Leadership in my opinion is for examples to us but the final word in my heart is confirmed by the Holy Spirit, for we must all work out our own salvation with fear and trembling!

WJ

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 29 2009,12:20)

BD Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 28 2009,15:58) So you deny the Pope outright? I do not deny the Pope may be [a] Father, but I deny that he is my Father for the word Father entails more than just a title! The Greek word for Father is “Strong's G3962 – patēr and means 1) generator or male ancestor a) either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents b) “a more remote ancestor, the founder of a family or tribe, progenitor of a people, forefather: so Abraham is called, Jacob and David“ 1) fathers i.e. ancestors, forefathers, “founders of a nation“ c)”one advanced in years, a senior“ And contrary to what you or Gene may believe, the word is not exclusive to our Heavenly Father! Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 28 2009,15:58) Who are your Fathers in the faith? How many do you have? As you can see by the definition that our Fathers can include all of the Patriarchs and the Apostles of the faith, for again even Paul said he was a Father to those he had espoused to Christ! Many Christians walk around today not understanding the principle of Spiritual leadership in the Body of Christ, the Church, and therefore they are accountable to no one for checks and balances in their lives. If Fatherly leadership is not needed then the writings of the Apostles to the Churches is in vain! To some degree I agree with CA, but not to the point of making any man their final authority or seeing them as infallible. Leadership in my opinion is for examples to us but the final word in my heart is confirmed by the Holy Spirit, for we must all work out our own salvation with fear and trembling! WJ

So was Jesus wrong for saying call no man on earth your Father?

Matthew 23:8-10 (King James Version)

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Why did Jesus say this

Matthew 22:41-43 (King James Version)

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.

Now these people agreed with you saying that David was the Father of Jesus but Jesus disagrees saying:

43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

But you don't understand this do you? preferring to act as if this only pertains to Jesus but it pertains to all those BORN of the Spirit as you said that you are. If you are born of the Spirit how can a man be your Father? You have been born from above, now learn brother.

Matthew 11: (King James Version)

11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Now here, we already know that Jesus was also born of women but he is explaining that being baptized in the spirit and not just the water is being born from above i.e. born again.

If you are a Child of God WJ you are no longer of this world and your Father is from above.

[Worshipping Jesus]

BD

As usual your doctrine is selective. You should stick with your true religion “the Islamic” one.

You are so blind that you can only see what you want to in scriptures. My fault for being duped into another fruitless conversation with an unbeliever!

Jesus point of calling men Father, is in contrast to the heavenly Father!

Like I said you confess that you are not a Chikl of the Abrahamic faith and you deny the God of our Fathers and reject the Apostles own words…

“The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers“, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. Acts 3:13

Jesus was of the seed of David, “The root and the offspring of David” another Father, but you do not understand what that means, and you have denied this very truth by your misinterpretation of the scriptures.

WJ

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 29 2009,12:57)

BD As usual your doctrine is selective. You should stick with your true religion “the Islamic” one. You are so blind that you can only see what you want to in scriptures. My fault for being duped into another fruitless conversation with an unbeliever! Jesus point of calling men Father, is in contrast to the heavenly Father! Like I said you confess that you are not a Chikl of the Abrahamic faith and you deny the God of our Fathers and reject the Apostles own words… “The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers“, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. Acts 3:13 Jesus was of the seed of David, “The root and the offspring of David” another Father, but you do not understand what that means, and you have denied this very truth by your misinterpretation of the scriptures. WJ

Why call me an unbeliever when it is obvious that I am a believer?

I asked you was Jesus wrong?

He said that David was not his Father and he also said call no man on earth Father so instead of calling me an unbeliever why not respond to what Jesus said?

Now , how is it that Paul says that Jesus was the seed of David 9According to the flesh was he not aware of the Virgin birth of Jesus

Romans 1 (King James Version)

3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

How is Jesus the seed of David? What male from his bloodline impregnated Mary?

Joseph was of the House of David, so what is Paul saying?

Why would Jesus say call no man on EARTH your Father? Joseph could only be his father according to the flesh if he impregnated Mary but we know that didn't occur so why is it that Paul doesn't preach the virgin birth?

[princess of the king]

this is an excerpt from the Didascalia:

'ACCORDING TO WHAT PATTERNS AND DIGNITY EVERY ORDER OF THE CLERGY IS APPOINTED BY GOD.

XXVI. The bishop, he is the minister of the word, the keeper of knowledge, the meditator between God and you in the several parts of your divine worship. He is the teacher of piety; and,

next after God, he is your father, who has begotten you again to the adoption of sons by water and the Spirit.

He is your ruler and governor; he is your king and potentate;

he is, next after God, your earthly god, who has a right to be honoured by you.

For concerning him, arid such as he, it is that God pronounces, “I have said, Ye are gods; and ye are all children of the Most High.” (2) And, “Ye shall not speak evil of the gods.”

(3) For let the bishop preside over you as one honoured with the authority of God,

which he is to exercise over the clergy, and by which he is to govern all the people.

But let the deacon minister to him, as Christ does to His Father; (4) and let him serve him unblameably in all things, as Christ does nothing of Himself, but does always those things that please His Father.

Let also the deaconess be honoured by you
in the place of the Holy Ghost,
and not do or say anything without the deacon;

as neither does the Comforter say or do anything of Himself,
but gives glory to Christ by waiting for His pleasure.
And as we cannot believe on Christ without the teaching of the Spirit'

[NickHassan]

For clarification
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didascalia

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