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david
God owns all things he put the rule of love , men chose to go his own way,let not blame God for men sins,but God saves his righteous out of the snares of the wicked ones ,this is a fact, he may be temporary enslave in the world but God will free him,
when Israel took a king God told them the implications they did not listen so they pay the prize, just as he did when Moses told them the law ,to chose live instead of dead ,but we all know they chose dead it is true that the righteous was caught with them but they receive some help from God for supporting the time of judgement ,
also scriptures says that being submit to God will give you live ,voluntary submission is not slavery
it is men made slavery that is cruel
Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2014,05:22) Quote So it's not so much that another is your slave. It's more how you treat that slave. Obviously, the stories we in America have been told about masters raping the wives of their slaves, and separating parents from their children, and all those other atrocities, don't fall under “act justly and love mercy”. The thing is, I'm not sure this is right. If god commands it, how can it not be acting justly or merciful?
What you describe above seems to come from scripture. It's just they are the parts of scripture that people generally ignore or don't want to look at.
Mike.How would you define rape?
Steeling someone and making them your concubine or wife against their will?
Obviously things were different back then and women were viewed much differently sort of like they are in some parts of the world today still. Maybe almost like a slave or servant. Bit steeling someone and making them your wife / slave. Is this rape?
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 30 2014,01:47)
The video is good for Colter to watch.
There are many space creatures spoken of,
just as in the UB.wakeup.
You may buy slaves
They are to come from the nations around you.
You can make them slaves for life.
You must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly (cruelly).
Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2014,08:16) You may buy slaves They are to come from the nations around you.
You can make them slaves for life.
You must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly (cruelly).
buying slaves that already where were slave this would be a step in the right direction if Israel would be staying faithful to GodQuote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2014,15:26) Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2014,08:16) You may buy slaves They are to come from the nations around you.
You can make them slaves for life.
You must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly (cruelly).
buying slaves that already where were slave this would be a step in the right direction if Israel would be staying faithful to God
Terr,…and if they weren't already slaves?
….if they were just at home chilling with their families and then their father was killed and they were taken captive, to be slaves.
What of that.
Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2014,11:04) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2014,15:26) Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2014,08:16) You may buy slaves They are to come from the nations around you.
You can make them slaves for life.
You must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly (cruelly).
buying slaves that already where were slave this would be a step in the right direction if Israel would be staying faithful to God
Terr,…and if they weren't already slaves?
….if they were just at home chilling with their families and then their father was killed and they were taken captive, to be slaves.
What of that.
Davidand what happen here in north America in the time of the pioneers all away until we created well fare ,pension,and unemployment, ect this is only at most 100 years old ,
and in Europe if you are not connected ,you are nobody
Paul says that we are all responsible for our own lives ,if it takes selling part of it to eat and sleep so be it
we still practice that todayQuote (david @ Mar. 29 2014,12:14) I am mostly asking about FORCED slavery/servant hood
And what are you asking about it? If you want to debate whether it is “bad” or not, I guess that calls for personal feelings, opinions and speculation.All I can tell you is that slavery has been practiced for almost as long as humans have dwelled on earth. And God condoned the practice.
We consider ourselves so much more “enlightened” today, and can therefore condemn those from our past who didn't do things the way we would do them today.
We do this also with the issue of women's rights. We have become so “enlightened” that we often forget that God made woman as a possession and helper FOR man. They were never intended to have equal rights with men.
Young females were sold into marriage or slavery all the time in the Biblical days. They didn't have a say in the matter, because they were possessions of the men. And a person can do whatever he want with his own possessions, right?
So add those wives of old into your slavery equation too, David. Because they were sold to a man not of their own choosing, and became his property to do with as he saw fit. Just like the slaves from the other nations.
I could go on about animal rights, gay rights, and other things we're so “enlightened” about today, but the point is that we can't change what was.
Nor am I about to condemn God Himself for condoning a practice that I personally might find appalling while looking back into time from my new “enlightened” 2014 perspective.
I hope that is not your intent here.
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 31 2014,03:06) Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2014,11:04) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2014,15:26) Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2014,08:16) You may buy slaves They are to come from the nations around you.
You can make them slaves for life.
You must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly (cruelly).
buying slaves that already where were slave this would be a step in the right direction if Israel would be staying faithful to God
Terr,…and if they weren't already slaves?
….if they were just at home chilling with their families and then their father was killed and they were taken captive, to be slaves.
What of that.
Davidand what happen here in north America in the time of the pioneers all away until we created well fare ,pension,and unemployment, ect this is only at most 100 years old ,
and in Europe if you are not connected ,you are nobody
Paul says that we are all responsible for our own lives ,if it takes selling part of it to eat and sleep so be it
we still practice that today
It's weird to me how people keep confusing the slavery (hired worker servant Israelites) with the slavery (ownership of foreigners)I totally understand and get what you say here terr
It just doesn't relate to what I'm discussing.
Quote
We consider ourselves so much more “enlightened” today, and can therefore condemn those from our past who didn't do things the way we would do them today.We do this also with the issue of women's rights. We have become so “enlightened” that we often forget that God made woman as a possession and helper FOR man. They were never intended to have equal rights with men.
–mike.
And that is why in the hot seat on this with t8 (who doesn't yet know it exists) I am arguing that forced slavery is good. He stated that forced slavery is bad.
Quote And what are you asking about it? If you want to debate whether it is “bad” or not, I guess that calls for personal feelings, opinions and speculation. I'm not sure how t8 would argue that forced slavery is bad. (Or intrinsically bad). I don't know how personal feelings play into it. God allowed it, created rules regulating it, encouraged and commanded it when they conquered the foreign nations, and in the Greek scriptures, nothing seemed to change. In fact there seems to be a scripture that indicates the teaching of slavery should continue on. So how can anyone even say its bad? I think this is why no one wants to discuss this.
Quote … They were never intended to have equal rights with men. Young females were sold into marriage or slavery all the time in the Biblical days. They didn't have a say in the matter, because they were possessions of the men. And a person can do whatever he want with his own possessions, right?
–mike
I wish we could return to the good old days. Do you think perhaps the future will be like this?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2014,07:26) Quote (david @ Mar. 29 2014,12:14) I am mostly asking about FORCED slavery/servant hood
And what are you asking about it? If you want to debate whether it is “bad” or not, I guess that calls for personal feelings, opinions and speculation.All I can tell you is that slavery has been practiced for almost as long as humans have dwelled on earth. And God condoned the practice.
We consider ourselves so much more “enlightened” today, and can therefore condemn those from our past who didn't do things the way we would do them today.
We do this also with the issue of women's rights. We have become so “enlightened” that we often forget that God made woman as a possession and helper FOR man. They were never intended to have equal rights with men.
Young females were sold into marriage or slavery all the time in the Biblical days. They didn't have a say in the matter, because they were possessions of the men. And a person can do whatever he want with his own possessions, right?
So add those wives of old into your slavery equation too, David. Because they were sold to a man not of their own choosing, and became his property to do with as he saw fit. Just like the slaves from the other nations.
I could go on about animal rights, gay rights, and other things we're so “enlightened” about today, but the point is that we can't change what was.
Nor am I about to condemn God Himself for condoning a practice that I personally might find appalling while looking back into time from my new “enlightened” 2014 perspective.
I hope that is not your intent here.
Mike? Are you saying you personally find (forced) slavery appalling?I think perhaps the enlightenment you speak of has gotten to you.
If you were an Israelite living back then, I can't think you would find it appalling. God does not change. So what has changed?
Quote Young females were sold into marriage or slavery all the time in the Biblical days. They didn't have a say in the matter, because they were possessions of the men. And a person can do whatever he want with his own possessions, right? –mike
Almost anything. To be fair they couldn't beat them so badly that they died, or destroy their eyes or teeth. But yes a person can do almost whatever he wants with his possessions.
Quote (david @ Mar. 31 2014,06:56) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 31 2014,03:06) Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2014,11:04) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2014,15:26) Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2014,08:16) You may buy slaves They are to come from the nations around you.
You can make them slaves for life.
You must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly (cruelly).
buying slaves that already where were slave this would be a step in the right direction if Israel would be staying faithful to God
Terr,…and if they weren't already slaves?
….if they were just at home chilling with their families and then their father was killed and they were taken captive, to be slaves.
What of that.
Davidand what happen here in north America in the time of the pioneers all away until we created well fare ,pension,and unemployment, ect this is only at most 100 years old ,
and in Europe if you are not connected ,you are nobody
Paul says that we are all responsible for our own lives ,if it takes selling part of it to eat and sleep so be it
we still practice that today
It's weird to me how people keep confusing the slavery (hired worker servant Israelites) with the slavery (ownership of foreigners)I totally understand and get what you say here terr
It just doesn't relate to what I'm discussing.
Davidownership of foreigners;? what is this therm means and what are the implication for the the owner
Hi terr
Yes. Ownership of foreigners (as slaves). Having non-Israelites as forced slaves, as property or a possession.
I'm not sure what you are asking.
Mike. Have we just become too soft?
PROVERBS 26:3
A whip for the horse, a halter for the donkey, and a rod for the backs of fools!PROVERBS 19:29
Penalties are prepared for mockers, and beatings for the backs of fools.PROVERBS 10:13
Wisdom is found on the lips of the discerning, but a rod is for the back of him who lacks judgment.PROVERBS 18:6
“The lips of one who is stupid enter into quarreling, and his very mouth calls even for strokes.”PROVERBS 20:30
Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, and beatings purge the inmost …There are countries that still do such things. They are generally looked down upon or shunned by most of the world. Perhaps they have it right.
Quote (david @ Mar. 31 2014,09:49) Hi terr Yes. Ownership of foreigners (as slaves). Having non-Israelites as forced slaves, as property or a possession.
I'm not sure what you are asking.
DavidWhat could the owner do with his acquired slave in Israel
Quote (david @ Mar. 30 2014,19:40) And that is why in the hot seat on this with t8 (who doesn't yet know it exists) I am arguing that forced slavery is good. He stated that forced slavery is bad.
I also haven't seen the thread, David. I'll try to follow the discussion. Between you and t8, they are always at least enjoyable – and usually very comical.
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