Is salvation by us, or of God?

[terraricca]

hi chosenone

this is from Chist himself;Jn 5:24 “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned.
whoever hears and believes “is this not the lessners who as to take action to believe ?

those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned

is this also the will of the father that” those” who do good or evil or it is “those “who make there own choice???

Jn 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

who is refusing to go to Christ ?? they have free will but they refuse to acept Christ.

Jn 3:15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

it says that everyone ,NOT ALL MEN,

[chosenone]

Hi terraricca.
1Cor.15:22-28
22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.
23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;
24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)

This plainly says …that God will be All in “all”, NOT All in “SOME”.

Blessings.

[terraricca]

hi CO
1Co 1:4 I always thank God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus.
1Co 1:5 For in him you have been enriched in every way—in all your speaking and in all your knowledge—
1Co 1:6 because our testimony about Christ was confirmed in you.
1Co 1:7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
1Co 1:8 He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:9 God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.

1Co 1:11 My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you.
1Co 1:12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas’”; still another, “I follow Christ

1Co 2:9 However, as it is written:
“No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him”

1Co 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1Co 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.
1Co 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain

1Co 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.
1Co 15:19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
1Co 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep

so what you imply is not to be applied to all men.but only to the saved ones.

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
CO quotes the books written to those in Christ as if they apply to all men who ever lived.
Such is the weak foundation of universal salvationism.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 04 2010,03:53)

Hi T, CO quotes the books written to those in Christ as if they apply to all men who ever lived. Such is the weak foundation of universal salvationism.

He has not answered the point of why he believes that God is capable of sinning despite scripture stating otherwise.   His universal salvation theory is dependent on that idea because he does not allow men to be responsible for their own actions.

I am waiting.

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin….. Where doe scripture say GOD (CAN NOT SIN) because He chooses not to does not Mean He can't right? If GOD can do all things and Nothing is impossible to him to do, then why couldn't he sin if He so Chose too. I know He does not sin but that is because he Will not to. IMO

[terraricca]

hi gene

even thinking what you say is a sin.

God cannot sin .it is also impossible to God to lies,

how could could God sin ? against who would he sin ?if he lies against who would he lie ??

God his Love and the scriptures lay out clearly what the love of God is.

it is more that we are driven away from Gods will by the world and so men view,and do not understand his ways
Christ and his apostles explain to all of us the way gods want us to think and renew the relationship,but again and again men intervention with jalousie and greed twist the words.and so many are not knowing were to go and run nowhere.exploided and missing the truth

[chosenone]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 04 2010,09:31)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 04 2010,03:53) Hi T, CO quotes the books written to those in Christ as if they apply to all men who ever lived. Such is the weak foundation of universal salvationism. He has not answered the point of why he believes that God is capable of sinning despite scripture stating otherwise.   His universal salvation theory is dependent on that idea because he does not allow men to be responsible for their own actions. I am waiting.

kerwin.
I am puzzeled, why do you say “that I believe that God is capable of sinning”, I have never stated that, and object to you saying that I did.
I don't mind the exchanging of opinions, but lets not resort to lies.

Blessings.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 04 2010,11:54)

hi gene even thinking what you say is a sin. God cannot sin .it is also impossible to God to lies, how could could God sin ? against who would he sin ?if he lies against who would he lie ?? God his Love and the scriptures lay out clearly what the love of God is. it is more that we are driven away from Gods will by the world and so men view,and do not understand his ways Christ and his apostles explain to all of us the way gods want us to think and renew the relationship,but again and again men intervention with jalousie and greed twist the words.and so many are not knowing were to go and run nowhere.exploided and missing the truth

terarccia……………Please post scriptures that say GOD (CAN NOT) Sin , It may say He will not sin or Lie, but to say He can not is limiting him and dictating what he can and can not do. And that would be a sin. I would not be so presumptuous to make that statement if i were you. IMO

[terraricca]

gene

maybe i have to say it in other words like this ;if sin is braking the law, then only the ones under the law can break it. the one who make the law does not obey his law he is higher than the law he can change it if he wants to right.

now to say that lying is a sin is also true or killing ,it is impossible to God to lie to kill God does not kill it is men who kills through his wickedness ,greed and godless ways rejecting the truth of God .
men receive the right judgment to is actions,

If it was not for God intervention all truth of God would be off this planet.

this is why God as Given us Christ a way out of this world of violence and greed.

[GeneBalthrop]

terraricca……..God Said He both KILLS and Makes ALIVE , no one can deliver from his hands. My point in all this is i believe we should not limit GOD in what He can or can not do. I do agree GOD does not sin , but i believe it is because He chooses not to, not because he can't.

Deu 32:39….> See now that I, even I, am He, and there is (NO) god with me: I (KILL), and I make Alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene

[terraricca]

hi gene
i understand what you saying there is nothing under the sun that God does not know and that is not tolerate by God ,
but the reasons is men behavior is corruption God can not let men unpunished the violence as to stop at one point and that at the end time foretold.

God is limited by his Love but do we fully understand the love of God ?

[GeneBalthrop]

terraricca…………… I agree, I believe it is far greater then we realize, brother.

peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene

[NickHassan]

Hi,
We can become sons and daughters of God.[Jn3]
Too many assume after rebirth that the armchair ride will get them there.

[kerwin]

Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 04 2010,08:56)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 04 2010,09:31) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 04 2010,03:53) Hi T, CO quotes the books written to those in Christ as if they apply to all men who ever lived. Such is the weak foundation of universal salvationism. He has not answered the point of why he believes that God is capable of sinning despite scripture stating otherwise.   His universal salvation theory is dependent on that idea because he does not allow men to be responsible for their own actions. I am waiting. kerwin.   I am puzzeled, why do you say “that I believe that God is capable of sinning”, I have never stated that, and object to you saying that I did.     I don't mind the exchanging of opinions, but lets not resort to lies. Blessings.

You do not explicitly state it but you doctrine does. If man does not make his own choices but God makes them instead then when a man sins it is God using him to sin.

For example if I make a puppet and the puppet robs a bank while I am controlling it then I am guilty of robbing the bank.

[kerwin]

Quote (Gene @ Jan. 04 2010,06:07)

Kerwin….. Where doe scripture say GOD (CAN NOT SIN) because He chooses not to does not Mean He can't right? If GOD can do all things and Nothing is impossible to him to do, then why couldn't he sin if He so Chose too. I know He does not sin but that is because he Will not to. IMO

In the 13th verse of the first chapter of James we are told God cannot even be tempted by evil.  If he cannot be tempted by evil then he will not be enticed and sin will not born in Him. It is completely contrary to his righteous nature which is why Jesus taught that “Only God is Good”.

[terraricca]

hi KW
good thinking you got it right now

[chosenone]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 04 2010,22:35)

Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 04 2010,08:56) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 04 2010,09:31) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 04 2010,03:53) Hi T, CO quotes the books written to those in Christ as if they apply to all men who ever lived. Such is the weak foundation of universal salvationism. He has not answered the point of why he believes that God is capable of sinning despite scripture stating otherwise.   His universal salvation theory is dependent on that idea because he does not allow men to be responsible for their own actions. I am waiting. kerwin.   I am puzzeled, why do you say “that I believe that God is capable of sinning”, I have never stated that, and object to you saying that I did.     I don't mind the exchanging of opinions, but lets not resort to lies. Blessings. You do not explicitly state it but you doctrine does.  If man does not make his own choices but God makes them instead then when a man sins it is God using him to sin.   For example if I make a puppet and the puppet robs a bank while I am controlling it then I am guilty of robbing the bank.

Kerwin.
God created evil (Isaiah 45:7)

God made the “wicked” (Proverbs 16:4)

God killed thousands by drowning in the 'great flood' (Gen.6)

God killed thousands when He destroyed Sodom and Gomora (Gen.18 &19)

God turned Lots wife into a 'pillar of salt'.

God 'allowed' Satan to inflict 'Job'

There are many, many, scriptures that God does things, that if mankind does them is sin. But God cannot sin.

When God uses 'evil' He does not sin, He does it to accomplish His purpose. (1Cor.15:28 …that God may be All in all)

If you cannot believe all scripture, then your understanding is limited. God will save all mankind, His ways are not our ways, He will accomplish what He set out to do. And that is to be “All in all”.

Blessings.

[NickHassan]

CO,
You should not limit your understanding to the trivia of philosphies like universalism.

[terraricca]

CO
there are limits to the wickets this was only the beginning (flood)wait and see wen the end is there the destruction would be far greater than the flood was.
you have to understand that there is no room for the wicket ones ,God did not create this planet to be cover with wicket people but with righteous ones,all what happen is to resolve a old dispute what as now been answered but the final act still to unfold.

wait and see.or look and learn

[Author]

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