Is observing christmas and easter ok?

Participant

Quote (OneoftheLordsGenerals @ Mar. 01 2006,04:18)

What i am saying is to observe it, is to celebrate such a joyous occasion, seperate from the rest of the World. To observe the Last Supper(sacrifice of Christ) in which we partake in his sacrifice in remembrance of him.
I am not saying that celebrating christmas is part of our salvation, but observing(celebrating) his birth is.
Not that it has to be done in a grand stage of things with presents and such, but even to just gather with fellow believers and rejoice for his birth(from which we have salvation). Maybe observe was to vague of a word. Celebrate his birth. Rejoice as the angels do. Thats what I mean.
Aren't you happy for his coming, rejoice and celebrate his birth. Rejoice and celebrate his birth. God came down to sacrifice his life for our sins. That deserves celebration as believers.

Hi Oneofthelords.

Revelation 2:6. But this thou hast,that thou hatest the deeds of the NICOLAITANES,WHICH I ALSO HATE.

15. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the NICOLAITANES,WHICH THING I HATE.( nicolaitanes? find out.)

The two witnesses killed: The world rejoicing.

REvelation 11:10. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, AND MAKE MERRY,AND SHALL SEND GIFTS ONE TO ANOTHER; BECAUSE THESE TWO PROPHETS tormented them that dwell on the earth.

13.Great earth quake.
15.Second coming.

Jer51:39. In their heat I will make their feasts,and i will make them DRUNKEN,that they may REJOICE,

December 27, 2011 at 10:51 am#269595

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 27 2011,20:43)

Quote (OneoftheLordsGenerals @ Mar. 01 2006,04:18)

Hi Oneofthelords.

Revelation 2:6. But this thou hast,that thou hatest the deeds of the NICOLAITANES,WHICH I ALSO HATE.

15. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the NICOLAITANES,WHICH THING I HATE.( nicolaitanes? find out.)

The two witnesses killed: The world rejoicing.

REvelation 11:10. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, AND MAKE MERRY,AND SHALL SEND GIFTS ONE TO ANOTHER; BECAUSE THESE TWO PROPHETS tormented them that dwell on the earth.

13.Great earth quake.
15.Second coming.

Jer51:39. In their heat I will make their feasts,and i will make them DRUNKEN,that they may REJOICE,

CONTINUE.
SAITH THE LORD.

JER 51:57. And i will make drunk her princes,and her wise man, her captains and her rulers,and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a PERPETUAL SLEEP, and not wake, SAITH THE KING, WHOSE NAME IS THE LORD Of HOST.
(her=babylon the great).

peace

wakeup.

March 7, 2012 at 1:32 pm#283371

annie

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 28 2006,07:04)

I believe you make some good points.

Where does the Bible say to celebrate Christmas?
Why did the early Christians not only not celebrate Christmas, but shun the birthday celebration as well?
Where does the Bible say that mixing ancient pagan fertility rites with Christianity is ok? I think it says quite the opposite.

Quote

I believe to observe the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ… is key to our salvation.

The early Christians must have been unaware of this “key” to salvation.

The only scriptural celebration that we are commanded to memorialize or remember is the Lord's evening meal, “Keep doing this in remembrance of me,” he said.
But this has little to do with “easter,” the name of a false god. Pagan fertility sex rites and Jesus death do not go together and what makes you think that mixing the two would be ok?
Of course, there is nothing wrong with giving. But why take a special day that is connected to paganism, and certainly not the date of Jesus' birth (actaully the date of the birth of the invincible sun (dies natalies solis invictis, or something like that) and use that as the day to give people gifts. It's not really a giving of gifts, as it is an “exchanging” of gifts, as was practiced during the Roman Saturnalia. Everything you see at Christmas time (evergreens, holly, mistletoe, lights, exchanging of gifts, st nick) have roots in paganism. The date of his birth is a lie. The 3 wise men are actually an unspecified number of astrologers who visited the “house” where Jesus was by then, not the manger. More lies.
Jesus said: “For this I have been born and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth…” Christmas is lies. What do the two have in common? Nothing.
Of course Jesus birth on earth was important. It was important because he had to be born so that he could die a sacrificial death.
“A name is better than good oil, and the day of death than the day of one’s being born.” (Ecclesiastes 7:1)
It is his death we are commanded to commemorate.

Quote

Santa(which is kinda weird in that if you scramble the letters it says Satan, which could be just a coincidence)

Coincidence?

I have searched and can find no scripture to back up the celebration of Christmas, which makes much sense actually, because it is a man made tradition based on pagan roots.

The early Christians wouldn't have celebrated it as it is supposed to be in honor of Christ's birth and as far as I can tell from my search in scripture, there is no where where we are told to celebrate birthdays at all let alone Christs birth. I can only find 2 scriptures (there may be more) that actually refer to actual 'birthday'. Gen. 40:20 'On the first day, which was Pharaoh's birthday, he made a feast for all his servants, and lifted up the head of the chief butler and the head of the chief baker among his servants.' Matt. 14:6 'But when Herod's birthday came, the daughter of Herodias danced before the company, and pleased Herod,' When you see who did celebrate birthdays you can come to the conclusion it was a pagan practice.

We are told in Deut.12:29-32 “When the LORD your God cuts off before you the nations whom you go in to dispossess, and you dispossess them and dwell in their land, take heed that you be not ensnared to follow them, after they have been destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire about their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? – that I also may do likewise.' You shall not do so to the Lord your God; for every abominable thing which the Lord hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods. “Everything that I command you you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to it or take from it.”

Most Christians know that Christmas and Easter have pagan roots but they feel that they are doing these things for the LORD God and since God knows their heart is in the right place, it is okay to do. (Truthfully, if they really knew what the actual roots of some of these things that they do where, they would be horrified, such as coloring Easter eggs.) But from what I see in these scriptures from Deuteronomy, HE tells us not to do these very things that we do at Christmas as well as Easter, as we are taking pagan traditions of worship and are now doing it to HIM! If we do these things, we are in direct disobedience to HIS Word. It really isn't about what we feel but what HE feels, and HE makes it very plain in these scriptures EXACTLY how he feels. It isn't about us and how we want to worship HIM, its about HIM and how HE wants us to worship HIM.

March 7, 2012 at 2:16 pm#283374

Participant

Quote (annie @ Mar. 07 2012,23:32)

Quote (david @ Feb. 28 2006,07:04)

I believe you make some good points.

Quote

I believe to observe the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ… is key to our salvation.

The early Christians must have been unaware of this “key” to salvation.

Quote

Santa(which is kinda weird in that if you scramble the letters it says Satan, which could be just a coincidence)

Coincidence?

I have searched and can find no scripture to back up the celebration of Christmas, which makes much sense actually, because it is a man made tradition based on pagan roots.

Hi Annie.

One thing we must know and understand; that what this world embraces and love is not of God.
For the world loves its own, and hates what is Gods.

wakeup.

March 8, 2012 at 5:40 am#283600

Participant

Quote (annie @ Mar. 07 2012,23:32)

Quote (david @ Feb. 28 2006,07:04)

I believe you make some good points.

Quote

I believe to observe the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ… is key to our salvation.

The early Christians must have been unaware of this “key” to salvation.

Quote

Santa(which is kinda weird in that if you scramble the letters it says Satan, which could be just a coincidence)

Coincidence?

I have searched and can find no scripture to back up the celebration of Christmas, which makes much sense actually, because it is a man made tradition based on pagan roots.

“Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven, for the heathen are dismayed by them. For the customs of the people are vain” (Jer. 10:2, 3)

I'm not sure if learning the way of the heathen is the same as “imitating” the way of the heathen, but imitating heathen (pagan) practices is exactly what Christmas and Easter are filled with.

March 8, 2012 at 6:39 am#283631

Participant

Hi Annie,
Welcome to HN! I find great value in celebrating Christmas and the Resurrection Day. I will list reasons:

1. Christmas is not just one event-a birthday, but a story that we read about in the Bible. This story begins with the angel visiting Mary, then Joseph. Then the visit that Mary makes to Elizabeth. Also the trip to Bethlehem with no room at the inn. Then the birth and the poor status of Mary and Joseph. After that, the host of heaven appears to the shepherds announcing the Christ child. This continues with the visit of the Magi and Joseph's dream to escape to Egypt.

2. Man-made holidays are not necessarily wrong just because man has initiated them. Christmas is a memorial of what God has done. Memorials are a good thing. In the OT God instructed men to make altars as memorials and set up stones to mark important events. Purim and Habakkuk are both man-established events, both to honor what the Lord had done. Purim involved partying in the streets, gift giving, etc. God does not rebuke these celebrations in the Bible. Jesus attended Hanakkuk.

3. The Christmas tree has nothing to do with a chunk of wood carved out and decorated with gold and silver to be worshiped as an idol.

4. Do you know what Purim is about or how it was celebrated? If not, it is probably because it has not been celebrated by the Christian churches annually all over the world. Because Christmas is a world-wide celebration, people everywhere have a much better chance of learning about the true Christmas story and hearing the gospel message. Jesus' name is freely spoken and accepted during this time. Manger scenes are in several locations. Families come together at this time to worship Christ and also come together with the church body to do the same. The songs sung lift up the name of Christ all over the world. People that don't even go to church at least are exposed to the story of Christ more so than if there were no annual event to celebrate it.

5. Resurrection Day is definitely in the Bible and the beginning of the Christian church. This is what Passover, which was definitely celebrated by the Jews annually, pointed to. The Resurrection Day is something very special to the Christian and worthy to be remembered in a special way.

6. Non-Christians and even Christians add things to the way they celebrate that are not related to the story of these events. I have not met Christians that color eggs and have chocolate bunnies as a remembrance to any pagan gods. God made eggs and God made bunnies. Christians can take back things that the pagans have stolen, destroy their pagan purpose and build on top of them like a pagan altar in the OT. By God's directive, a pagan altar was torn down and at the same place, an altar for Him was built and the wood that was burnt was the asherah.
Judges 6:25-26
25Now on the same night the LORD said to him, “Take your father’s bull and a second bull seven years old, and pull down the altar of Baal which belongs to your father, and cut down the Asherah that is beside it; 26and build an altar to the LORD your God on the top of this stronghold in an orderly manner, and take a second bull and offer a burnt offering with the wood of the Asherah which you shall cut down.”

Christians have a great opportunity all over the world to spread the true story of Christ's coming as a baby and His resurrection because these stories are annual world-wide holidays. For instance, can you imagine how much easier it is to do what they are doing in this video because it is done in the context of the Christmas season?

So there ya go, Annie…another perspective
God bless,
Kathi

March 8, 2012 at 6:44 am#283633

Participant

Also the trip to Bethlehem with no room at the inn.

How do we know it was an inn? The word used is “lodging room” which is the exact same word as “guest room.” Since they had to travel there because that is where Joseph was from, wouldn't he have family he could stay with? Ah, but the guest room was full, so they had to lay Jesus in a manger.
Houses back then had mangers, because convenient stores hadn't been invented yet. So, animals were common on the lower level of houses, and hence the need for a food trough (manger.)

If I was joseph heading to my hometown, I would try to stay with one of my many family members, wouldn't you? Joseph didn't have a lot of money. We know this from the sacrifice he gave after Jesus birth.

March 8, 2012 at 6:45 am#283634

Participant

Hey, remember when they were worshipping the calf idol and called it a “festival to Jehovah.”

How did that go? Trying to put a good spin on paganism doesn't change how God feels about it. How did those people fare?

March 8, 2012 at 6:48 am#283636

Participant

Quote

God made eggs and God made bunnies. Christians can take back things that the pagans have stolen

This argument upsets me greatly.

Yes, God made all these things.

But that isn't the issue. The issue is: WHY MIMIC OR COPY PAGANISM, OR PAGAN PRACTICES ON THE DATE THAT PAGANS DID, IN THE WAY THAT PAGANS DID?

Lightenup, here is the one question I would like you to answer:

Is it right to imitate things that God has specifically said he hated?

March 8, 2012 at 6:54 am#283638

Participant

David,
The Bible doesn't say anything about there being relatives to stay with. It is likely that where they stayed was in a cave with some animals. Also, there was no mention in the Bible that Mary had to ride a donkey. I've been pregnant five times and if my husband, if he was a carpenter and didn't make me a donkey cart, I would be kinda ticked However, they may have had to hurry to Bethlehem with no time to make one. This is left up to our imagination. The manger scene depicts the shepherds and the magi all together which, although both groups visited the baby, the magi came at a later time. Does that make the manger scene bad…I don't think so. The general idea is that the babe was in a manger with Mary and Joseph and the shepherds and magi came to visit Him by supernatural guidance.

March 8, 2012 at 9:10 pm#283737

annie

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2012,16:39)

Hi Annie,
Welcome to HN! I find great value in celebrating Christmas and the Resurrection Day. I will list reasons:

3. The Christmas tree has nothing to do with a chunk of wood carved out and decorated with gold and silver to be worshiped as an idol.

So there ya go, Annie…another perspective
God bless,
Kathi

Hi Lightenup

A different translation of the scripture you quoted:

Judges6:25,26 That very night ADONAI said to him, “Take your father's bull and the other bull, the seven year old. Destroy the altar to Ba'al that belongs to your father, cut down the sacred pole (asherah) next to it, and build a proper altar to ADONAI your GOD on top of this strong-point. Then take the second bull; and offer it as a burnt offering, using the wood of the sacred pole you cut down.”

If you notice HE didn't tell them to use the same things the pagans used for their worship of their gods, they were told to DESTROY the pagan altar and to build a PROPER one (leading us to believe that the altar used for GOD was made according to the way HE wanted it, thereby, making it DIFFERENT than the pagan altar), so obviously HE didn't want them to use (or copy) something the pagans used to worship their gods for worship to HIM. They were also told to cut down the wooden idol and destroy it as well by burning it for the bull sacrifice to HIM. (Not like some Christian Churches who still to this day, have pagan idols in their Churches, (the Vatican for one) but now choose to call them by another name and 'Christianize' them.) As far as building on the same site, every time they were told to take over a land that wasn't theirs, but belonged to pagans, they were always told not to use the pagan and now call it their own, but were told instead every time, by GOD, to DESTROY it. They weren't building on top of anything pagan as all the pagan was destroyed! They instead built NEW according to GOD's specifications and worshiped according to GOD's specifications.

So, from the very scripture you quoted, I think it is very obvious that GOD doesn't want us to take whats pagan and make it our own and say we are doing it for HIM. He didn't tell them to use the same altar for HIM, or the wooden idol for HIM, they were instead, directed by HIM to DESTROY what was pagan and worship HIM HIS way with a new altar and burnt bulls as a sacrifice.

Just to fill you in (in case you are not aware) on one of the pagan practices in worshiping their fertility sun god, they used to have cult prostitutes and on Easter, their holiday for worshiping this god, the priests would have sex on the altar with them, as they believed that this made them one with their god. The babies that were conceived during this union were then sacrificed the following year at Easter, (the babies would be about 3 months old) and the blood from the babies would be used to dye eggs. The babies were then burned on the altar to this god and the eggs were offered as fertility offerings. As far as I know, the Greek Orthodox Church still dyes their Easter eggs only red. Yes, God created eggs and bunnies but that doesn't mean you can use them in the same way as the pagans and say you are doing it for HIM as GOD considers what they did as evil. Still want to color Easter eggs? Besides can you tell me what these two practices have to do with HIS resurrection according to scripture?

As far as Passover is concerned, it has never been just the feast of the Jews. The command was originally given to ALL Israel (as well as foreigners with them that believed in YHWH and were circumcised), not just the Jews, as the Jews only come from the tribe of Judah and there were actually 12 original tribes of Israel. The Jews just happened to be the only tribe lef
t (with the exception of Benjamin and some from Levi) from the original native Israel, therefore, that is why they were the only ones who kept the Feasts of the Lord. God refers to these tribes that were left as the Kingdom of Judah. Passover also tells the resurrection story of the Gospels as it tells of Jesus' sacrifice, death, burial, and resurrection. But that really is for another discussion.

Going back to Deuteronomy 12:29-32 “When the LORD your God cuts off before you the nations whom you go in to dispossess, and you dispossess them and dwell in their land, take heed that you be not ensnared to follow them, after they have been destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire about their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? – that I also may do likewise' You shall not do so to the LORD your God; for every abominable thing which the LORD HATES they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to the gods. Everything that I command you you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to it or take from it.”

Yes, Christians have a wonderful opportunity to share the good news of the Messiah and HIS Kingdom but they also have the moral obligation to tell the truth. I believe it should be told according to scripture with out anything added or taken away, such as man made traditions tend to do.

His birth and resurrection are in the Bible but both Christmas and Easter themselves aren't in the Bible. Scripture itself was hijacked per se by the RCC to fit the pagan practices, in order to bring in and keep the pagans in the Church since they weren't willing to give up their pagan holidays. In reality, Christmas was the worship of the sun god Tammus, (though he had different names in different cultures, but they were all the sun god.) And Easter is actually the worship of the fertility goddess Ishtar (again, different names in different cultures but the same goddess) The sun god was worshiped at the winter solstice in December and the fertility goddess Ishtar (Ashtaroth in the Bible) was worshiped at the spring equinox in early spring. Jesus was actually born in the Sept/Oct time frame and His death and resurrection coincide with Passover as He fulfilled this Feast. So what I am saying is, if Christians are telling the story of Jesus' birth and resurrection through the stories of 'Christmas and Easter' a lot of scriptural untruths are being told. Once any little bit of untruth is mixed in with truth, you can no longer call it truth.

You of course, are entitled to your perspective, I however will stick to my perspective as I see it as scriptural and in obedience to God.

Shalom!

March 8, 2012 at 9:49 pm#283759

shimmer

Participant

Jeremiah 10:

Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel.

Thus says the LORD:
“Learn not the way of the nations,
nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens
because the nations are dismayed at them,
for the customs of the peoples are false.
A tree from the forest is cut down,
and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman.
Men deck it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so that it cannot move.
Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field,
and they cannot speak;
they have to be carried,
for they cannot walk.
Be not afraid of them,
for they cannot do evil,
neither is it in them to do good.”

And what about SANTA??

March 8, 2012 at 10:04 pm#283762

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2012,16:39)

Hi Annie,
Welcome to HN! I find great value in celebrating Christmas and the Resurrection Day. I will list reasons:

3. The Christmas tree has nothing to do with a chunk of wood carved out and decorated with gold and silver to be worshiped as an idol.

So there ya go, Annie…another perspective
God bless,
Kathi

Lightenup.

Sure you love christmas, and so does the world.
Christmas is the most popular celebration,because its fun,and party.
Just try to preach Jesus on your friends christmas party and see what they will say to you. They will say; ''come on now kathi,we are celebrating here,this is not the time.”

Its strange that one can not speak about Jesus on his birthday party.

Just give it a try and see what will happen.THE WORLD LOVES ITS OWN, and the world embraces Chritmas.

wakeup.

March 8, 2012 at 10:09 pm#283764

kerwin

Participant

To all,

Santa is a man the Catholics regard as a Saint. There are a number of rumors and stories about him.

March 8, 2012 at 10:31 pm#283771

shimmer

Participant

The worst thing about Santa is lying to your Kid's.

March 8, 2012 at 11:15 pm#283781

Participant

People can choose to be pagan hunters and paganize what God has made good, i.e. a tree, sex, eggs, bunnies…the list goes on and on.

We can choose to find the bad in things and see how that can justify our separation from the Church or we can seek to understand beliefs and customs with a spirit for understanding realizing that the church will not be perfect.

We can trust the Lord and ask Him to lead us to the church that He wants us to seek unity in and minister in our gifting. Or, we can get all religious spirited and leave the church implying that Jesus has failed as the Head of His church. Even in a church that is imperfect we can grow in strength of character and sharpen one another to the knowledge of the fullness of Christ. There is not going to be a perfect church this side of heaven but some churches are much more inline with the Spirit of God than others. Last night I visited a church in the area for their annual conference, a different church than the regular one that I attend, and I was probably hugged by about 100 sisters in the Lord…none of them did I know. The worship time was lively and spirit filled, the message was about seeking brotherhood with the many different denominations that preached the Word of God-the one where Jesus is a capital 'G' God with the Father and their Spirit. Among the Pastors who spoke, there was a Baptist, a Pentecostal, and a Messianic Rabbi…all loving and building up one another's ministries and encouraging those in attendance with the teaching that the Lord had given them to teach.

I choose to NOT look through the lens of the pagan hunters but instead:
Phil 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

When you seek to follow Jesus command to be a part of His body and minister in your gifting, He will lead you to where you need to be. A religious spirit will lead you away from the church, imo, and have all sorts of 'religious' reasons why to do that. Satan seeks to divide and weaken the church and many are leaving the church because of this.

If you don't like how you have celebrated Christmas or the Resurrection Day, change how you celebrate it. At Christmas time, many celebrate it right with the Lord as their focus. Maybe many here haven't experienced that but that is what I have experienced and that is how my husband and I have raised our family. Going to church on Christmas Eve to sing Christmas carols and sing 'Silent Night' while everyone holds a lit candle and take communion together…that is just part of Christmas to me. In the morning, we begin the day with my husband reading the Christmas story around the manger scene and singing 'Happy Birthday' to Jesus. We give gifts to people and receive gifts and enjoy doing that. The friends that I have do similar things. I do realize that to many, Christmas is just another excuse for getting drunk and family fights and all sorts of things that have nothing to do with Christ but that is not because there is a holiday around the story of Christ but because of the wicked hearts of men.

If anyone wants to continue to look through the lens of the pagan hunters then you are missing the good in things. A religious spirit could paganize all sorts of things. Get rid of this religious spirit and be cleansed. Trust the Lord that He is still the head of the church. Babylon is where you will find the religious spirits but some creep into the church and proceed to tear the church down. Wouldn't it be better to get rid of the religious spirit than get rid of the church?

March 8, 2012 at 11:21 pm#283785

Participant

Wakeup,
I have never experienced what you claim at a Christmas party. Jesus has been welcome. What you seek, you will find…if it is the bad in people, you will certainly find it…if it is the good in people, then you will find that too.

March 8, 2012 at 11:32 pm#283788