Is Jesus still a man in heaven?

[seekingtruth]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2011,21:34)

Nor can blood inherit God's Kingdom, Wm. Blood is said to be the “life” of human being.  Without flesh and blood, we can no longer be called “human beings”. I believe Jesus has inherited God's Kingdom, since he is the one God put in charge of running it for the time being.  I believe, therefore, that Jesus can no longer be of the species called “human being”.

The point I'm making is that Jesus said He was flesh and bone (blood was not mentioned) after His Resurrection.

[mikeboll64]

So forget the bone and the blood. FLESH cannot inherit God's Kingdom. Can we agree on that, Wm?

I used to think Jesus was raised as a spirit being right from the grave. Shimmer pointed me to the scripture of which you speak, and made me realize that Jesus was raised to life in his flesh body, and therefore must have later had his body transformed into the spirit body he now has in heaven. (Phil 3:21; 1 Cor 15:51-52)

[seekingtruth]

Mike,
I agree that flesh cannot inherit God's Kingdom (so says Scripture). But I believe that when Jesus was Resurrected it was in His glorified body, a spiritual body (by His words containing a component of flesh and bone). Not a ethereal other reality something or other body, but an immortal corporeal body defined by its spiritual component. Just as our flesh contains a spirit component but as human beings we are currently defined by our domineering “flesh” component.

My opinion – Wm

[mikeboll64]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2011,22:37)

But I believe that when Jesus was Resurrected it was in His glorified body, a spiritual body (by His words containing a component of flesh and bone).

I disagree, Wm.

It seems to me that “flesh” is commonly the antithesis of “spirit” in the scriptures.

Rom 8:3
For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

I believe Jesus came in the likeness of “sinful flesh” to achieve a purpose. Once that purpose was accomplished, there was no more reason for Jesus to be confined to a flesh body.

It is scriptural fact that flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. And it is scriptural fact that Jesus became a life-giving spirit.

So since he was still in a flesh body for 40 days after his resurrection, I must assume that his flesh body was transformed into the new, glorious, spiritual body he now has upon his ascension to heaven. (Phil 3:20-21)

I just can't see any other way, Wm.

peace,
mike

[seekingtruth]

Mike,
Is it not our soul that determines our course of action, and does it not, without any influences to the contrary, always cater to the needs and wants of the body? This is what I believe scriptures refer to as the flesh. In a glorified/immortal body the soul will cater to our spirit, a spirit in communion with God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. This is a spiritual body,

I believe we are to rule and reign with Jesus on earth (a physical realm) and need physical bodies to do so. Like you have been telling Gene there are different types of spirits I believe there are different types of flesh

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

Philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

If the body is “transformed” it still needs to be the same type, otherwise we already have a spirit.

My opinion – Wm

[Wakeup]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2012,15:37)

Mike, I agree that flesh cannot inherit God's Kingdom (so says Scripture). But I believe that when Jesus was Resurrected it was in His glorified body, a spiritual body (by His words containing a component of flesh and bone). Not a ethereal other reality something or other body, but an immortal corporeal body defined by its spiritual component. Just as our flesh contains a spirit component but as human beings we are currently defined by our domineering “flesh” component.   My opinion – Wm

Seekingtrut.

The three angels that came to visit abraham they ate and drank with Abraham.
The fact is, that if we are given a spirit body like Jesus has, we also can materialise and dematerialise. The word of gGod also was materialised in the days of Abraham( the word that was used was TRANSLATED)The word of god was translated into a man named MELCHISEDEK.gen 14:18.19. heb.7:2.3.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2012,10:33)

Like you have been telling Gene there are different types of spirits I believe there are different types of flesh 1 Corinthians 15:38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

I hear and acknowledge the point you are making, Wm.  Kerwin was also a strong believer in this understanding.  But I disagree.  Had Paul wanted to speak of heavenly FLESH versus earthly FLESH, he could have easily said there was earthly flesh and heavenly flesh.  But not only didn't he say that, he even went as far as saying that flesh itself cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2012,10:33)

If the body is “transformed” it still needs to be the same type……

Why?  

peace,
mike

[seekingtruth]

Mike,
Still enjoying sunny California, hope your having (had) a good time.

Jesus said He was Flesh and Bones, was this a temporary body? Had Jesus wanted to speak of a second Resurrection or upcoming change to His body could He not easily of told us. So, besides not wanting to accept that there is a flesh aspect to a spiritual body is there any scripture to support it.

Thanks -Wm

[seekingtruth]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2012,23:12)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2012,15:37) Mike, I agree that flesh cannot inherit God's Kingdom (so says Scripture). But I believe that when Jesus was Resurrected it was in His glorified body, a spiritual body (by His words containing a component of flesh and bone). Not a ethereal other reality something or other body, but an immortal corporeal body defined by its spiritual component. Just as our flesh contains a spirit component but as human beings we are currently defined by our domineering “flesh” component.   My opinion – Wm Seekingtrut. The three angels that came to visit abraham they ate and drank with Abraham. The fact is, that if we are given a spirit body like Jesus has, we also can materialise and dematerialise. The word of gGod also was materialised in the days of Abraham( the word that was used was TRANSLATED)The word of god was translated into a man named MELCHISEDEK.gen 14:18.19.  heb.7:2.3. wakeup.

Wakeup,
Could you spell out how the scriptures you referenced support Jesus being a spirit being without a flesh component.

Thanks – Wm

[mikeboll64]

Hi Wm,

I got back from Cali yesterday.  Sunny and 70's all six days!  No rain, no accidents, no car troubles, no illnesses.  It was a perfectly blessed vacation.  

I believe Jesus was raised in the same body he died in.  He remained in that flesh body for 40 days before ascending to heaven.  

But 1 Cor 15:45 says that Jesus became a spirit.  And 15:50 says that flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.  Phil 3:21 speaks of the glorious new body Jesus has, and I doubt that Paul speaks of a body full of bruises, cuts, nail holes and spear holes as “glorious”.

1 Cor 15
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

I see a big distinction between the bodies of those on earth and the bodies of those in heaven when I read the above.  Verse 48 says that the man from heaven is like those of heaven.  Do you imagine that all spirit beings in heaven also have flesh like Jesus?  And if so, how do you explain away 15:50?

peace,
mike

[barley]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2011,08:18)

Hi All, NOTE:  The definition of “man” in this thread is NOT “male as opposed to female”, but “HUMAN BEING as opposed to SPIRIT BEING”.  So when I ask if Jesus is still a “man”, I'm not asking if he is MALE.  I'm asking if he is still a HUMAN BEING. I already suspect in advance that I will be on the losing end of this one.  But let's consider the scriptural facts of the matter: 1 Timothy 2:5 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Just like the poorly translated John 1:1 became the “go to” scripture to “prove” the Trinity, 1 Tim 2:5 is likewise the “go to” scripture that “proves” Jesus is STILL a man in heaven.  But let's read it again in context: 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men……… Now this can be understood that Jesus is STILL a man – which is how most people take it.  Or, it could be understood that the man who gave himself as a ransom IS NOW the mediator between God and men. It is a toss up at this point, for either understanding can be the correct one.  But which understanding do the other scriptures support? Galatians 1:1 1 Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— There is no toss up here.  Paul makes it abundantly clear in this scripture that Jesus is NOT a man, for he contrasts Jesus and God the Father FROM men. Galatians 1:12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. Again, Paul does not mince words in this scripture.  He is CLEARLY saying that Jesus is NOT a man. 1 Corinthians 15:44 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.  If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. Here Paul makes a distinction between the natural body of human beings, and the spiritual body of spirit beings. 1 Corinthians 15:45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. And here, Paul distinguishes Jesus from the MAN Adam, by teaching that Jesus is now a “life-giving SPIRIT”. 1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. There has never been a MAN (human being) who was not made of flesh and blood.  And if flesh and blood are what HUMAN BEINGS consist of, then HUMAN BEINGS cannot inherit God's Heavenly Kingdom.  And if there is anyone who ever existed that is worthy to inherit God's Heavenly Kingdom, it would be Jesus.  Plus the fact that Jesus rules over this Kingdom right now makes it a safe bet to say that Jesus has inherited this Kingdom, right?  So that means Jesus must not be flesh anymore, right?  And if Jesus is not flesh anymore, he is also not a HUMAN BEING any more, right? I will add to these scriptures 2 Corinthians 3:17-18, which support the fact that Jesus is now a SPIRIT BEING, as opposed to a flesh and blood HUMAN BEING. peace and love, mike

Luke 24:39

“Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”

Jesus Christ in his resurrected body was not a spirit being.

There are no scriptures to suggest that that has changed.

If anything there are verses that support that.

Philippians 3:21

“Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.”

barley

[mikeboll64]

Quote (barley @ Jan. 03 2012,17:34)

Jesus Christ in his resurrected body was not a spirit being.

I agree, oatmeal.  How have you been?

Quote (barley @ Jan. 03 2012,17:34)

There are no scriptures to suggest that that has changed. If anything there are verses that support that. Philippians 3:21 “Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.”

You lost me there.  It seems as if you say there are no scripture to suggest Jesus changed, but then go on to list one that supports the thought that he changed.  

peace,
mike

[seekingtruth]

Mike,
Glad you had a good time, now you can go back to work and rest up.

No I don't believe that spirit beings in heaven have flesh bodies, but I do not believe that Jesus was a created being either. However I do believe when angels come to earth they manifest one (somehow).

The reason I believe that Jesus was flesh after His Resurrection besides His saying so is found in Job:

Job 19:25 I know that my redeemer lives and that in the end he will stand on the earth. And after my skin has been destroyed yet in my flesh I will see God I myself will see him with my own eyes I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!

If we're supposed to be like Jesus, and Job said he would (after his skin was destroyed) see God with his own eyes even stressing that it was his body, a body of flesh who am I to argue.

Wm

[mikeboll64]

Job 19:26 NASB ©
“Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God;

From NETNotes:
The Hebrew phrase is “and from my flesh.” This could mean “without my flesh,” i.e., separated from my flesh, or “from my flesh,” i.e., in or with my flesh.

“Skin” IS “flesh”, right?  Job says that his skin (flesh) will be destroyed.  I think he is saying, “It will be after my flesh is destroyed so that I am without flesh, that I will see God.”

Wm, I don't deny that Jesus was raised from death in a flesh body.  In fact, it must have been the same body he died in, for it still had the marks of his death.

But Jesus, in that flesh body, could not inherit the Kingdom of God.  Scripture is very clear about this.  Not to mention that scripture speaks of Jesus' glorious NEW body.  It also speaks to the fact that Jesus became a life-giving spirit.

As for Jesus being created, how do you understand it?

peace,
mike

[seekingtruth]

Mike,
Only one out of fifeteen versions interpreted it that way.

Job 19:25 I know that my redeemer lives and that in the end he will stand on the earth. And after my skin has been destroyed yet in my flesh I will see God I myself will see him with my own eyes I, and not another.

How could he see God with his own eyes since eyes are basically flesh.

Do you agree that Jesus had a spirit (not talking about the Holy Spirit) before He was ressurected?

Wm

[mikeboll64]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 05 2012,21:34)

How could he see God with his own eyes since eyes are basically flesh.

Hi Wm,

Angels do not consist of flesh, but some of them see the face of God every day with their own eyes:

Matthew 18:10
See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 05 2012,21:34)

Do you agree that Jesus had a spirit (not talking about the Holy Spirit) before He was ressurected?

Yes, as he was a human being.

[seekingtruth]

Mike,
When an angel manifests on earth to interact with man (a physical, tangible, body) does he see with “their own eyes”. I believe your missing the point Job was making, he realized that although he would die and his flesh rot, he would see God with his very own eyes, stressing that it was his, not anothers.

My opinion – Wm

[terraricca]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 11 2012,11:31)

Mike, When an angel manifests on earth to interact with man (a physical, tangible, body) does he see with “their own eyes”. I believe your missing the point Job was making, he realized that although he would die and his flesh rot, he would see God with his very own eyes, stressing that it was his, not anothers. My opinion – Wm

seeking t

do you really understand ?if so what is it that make you understand ?is your mind ? your brain??your hearth ? all of the previous ??or is it the spirit of the soul that allow us to see what we see ?or not see??

think about it
the body is only a structure with physical,ears,eyes,and expressions of the heart

Pierre

[seekingtruth]

Pierre

Quote

the body is only a structure with physical,ears,eyes,and expressions of the heart

I agree, but Job said it was those physical eyes he would see God.

Wm

[terraricca]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 11 2012,14:08)

Pierre Quote the body is only a structure with physical,ears,eyes,and expressions of the heart I agree, but Job said it was those physical eyes he would see God. Wm

seekinf t

Job;19;23 For oh that my words were written, and that they were recorded in a book forever, 24 with an iron pen and lead, or graven in the rocks! 25 For I know that he is eternal who is about to deliver me, 26 and to raise up upon the earth my skin that endures these sufferings: for these things have been accomplished to me of the Lord; 27 which I am conscious of in myself, which mine eye has seen, and not another, but all have been fulfilled to me in my bosom.

28 But if ye shall also say, What shall we say before him, and so find the root of the matter in him? 29 Do ye also beware of deceit: for wrath will come upon transgressors; and then shall they know where their substance is.

this is the LXX version of Job 19 ;26

could read it and see if it means the same thing ??

let me know

Pierre

[Author]

Posts