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Hi All,
NOTE: The definition of “man” in this thread is NOT “male as opposed to female”, but “HUMAN BEING as opposed to SPIRIT BEING”. So when I ask if Jesus is still a “man”, I'm not asking if he is MALE. I'm asking if he is still a HUMAN BEING.
I already suspect in advance that I will be on the losing end of this one. But let's consider the scriptural facts of the matter:
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,Just like the poorly translated John 1:1 became the “go to” scripture to “prove” the Trinity, 1 Tim 2:5 is likewise the “go to” scripture that “proves” Jesus is STILL a man in heaven. But let's read it again in context:
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men………
Now this can be understood that Jesus is STILL a man – which is how most people take it. Or, it could be understood that the man who gave himself as a ransom IS NOW the mediator between God and men.
It is a toss up at this point, for either understanding can be the correct one. But which understanding do the other scriptures support?
Galatians 1:1
1 Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—
There is no toss up here. Paul makes it abundantly clear in this scripture that Jesus is NOT a man, for he contrasts Jesus and God the Father FROM men.Galatians 1:12
I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.Again, Paul does not mince words in this scripture. He is CLEARLY saying that Jesus is NOT a man.
1 Corinthians 15:44
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.Here Paul makes a distinction between the natural body of human beings, and the spiritual body of spirit beings.
1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.And here, Paul distinguishes Jesus from the MAN Adam, by teaching that Jesus is now a “life-giving SPIRIT”.
1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.There has never been a MAN (human being) who was not made of flesh and blood. And if flesh and blood are what HUMAN BEINGS consist of, then HUMAN BEINGS cannot inherit God's Heavenly Kingdom. And if there is anyone who ever existed that is worthy to inherit God's Heavenly Kingdom, it would be Jesus. Plus the fact that Jesus rules over this Kingdom right now makes it a safe bet to say that Jesus has inherited this Kingdom, right? So that means Jesus must not be flesh anymore, right? And if Jesus is not flesh anymore, he is also not a HUMAN BEING any more, right?
I will add to these scriptures 2 Corinthians 3:17-18, which support the fact that Jesus is now a SPIRIT BEING, as opposed to a flesh and blood HUMAN BEING.
peace and love,
mikeNo Jesus is not a man in Heaven. First because of the Scripture in John 17:5… The glory that Jesus had with His Father was that He was a Spirit being, and to that glory He went back to….
He was in the form of God and emptied Himself and became a man…
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Then Scripture says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.The last Scripture tells us for certain that He is a Spirit Being….Jesus was made a spirit being….
Peace adn Love Irene
To all,
It is sad that so many believe you can have God without Jesus as Scripture clearly states you cannot.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 01 2011,23:12) To all, It is sad that so many believe you can have God without Jesus as Scripture clearly states you cannot.
KerwinI agree because Christ the son of God, is our access to God grace
Pierre
Kerwin: You are absolutely correct!! If you see Jesus you have seen the father. How can they say, show us the father? TK
Quote (ftk @ Aug. 02 2011,04:40) Kerwin: You are absolutely correct!! If you see Jesus you have seen the father. How can they say, show us the father? TK
TKfor this reason;Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”they could not see
Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ July 31 2011,23:12) To all, It is sad that so many believe you can have God without Jesus as Scripture clearly states you cannot.
What does that have to do with this thread? Kerwin, do you have a comment about whether or not Jesus is still a human being in heaven?How about you, Tim?
peace,
mikeT8, why don't the polls show WHO voted for which option?
Nothing else on HN is “anonymous”. Why should the polls be?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2011,07:55) Quote (kerwin @ July 31 2011,23:12) To all, It is sad that so many believe you can have God without Jesus as Scripture clearly states you cannot.
What does that have to do with this thread? Kerwin, do you have a comment about whether or not Jesus is still a human being in heaven?How about you, Tim?
peace,
mike
Mike,My comment is if you believe Jesus is not a human being then you have thrown him out and are attempting to have the Father without the Son. Anyone who reads scripture should be very aware that Jesus being like his brother human beings is important to the message of salvation as Scripture instructs you.
Quote Hebrews 2 King James Version (KJV)
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Quote Hebrews 5 King James Version (KJV)
1For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 01 2011,11:20) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 01 2011,23:12) To all, It is sad that so many believe you can have God without Jesus as Scripture clearly states you cannot.
KerwinI agree because Christ the son of God, is our access to God grace
Pierre
Pierre,He is our access to God's grace because of both his human nature that comes from him being a human being and his divine nature which come from his union whith the Spirit of Christ. Both natures are necessary.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2011,23:15) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 01 2011,11:20) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 01 2011,23:12) To all, It is sad that so many believe you can have God without Jesus as Scripture clearly states you cannot.
KerwinI agree because Christ the son of God, is our access to God grace
Pierre
Pierre,He is our access to God's grace because of both his human nature that comes from him being a human being and his divine nature which come from his union whith the Spirit of Christ. Both natures are necessary.
Kerwinit seems to me you have still no understanding of who his Christ and why he came in the form of a human,
and why the son of God in heaven comes down as man and die ?
or do you ?
Pierre
That is a function of the board software rather than a purposeful feature.
It would be quite hard to change as it would require extra programming, and in a language that I am not that familiar with, i.e., Perl.Rather than patch this software up, I would probably prefer to use a different system.
But I am waiting for social networking to become richer with better CMS's that support that before changing the platform.In other words, I am waiting for the next technological leap in a forum, rather than adding my own code to this one.
Perhaps I could start a topic for a wish list of features which might help with what I choose in the next version.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2011,11:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2011,07:55) Quote (kerwin @ July 31 2011,23:12) To all, It is sad that so many believe you can have God without Jesus as Scripture clearly states you cannot.
What does that have to do with this thread? Kerwin, do you have a comment about whether or not Jesus is still a human being in heaven?How about you, Tim?
peace,
mike
Mike,My comment is if you believe Jesus is not a human being then you have thrown him out and are attempting to have the Father without the Son. Anyone who reads scripture should be very aware that Jesus being like his brother human beings is important to the message of salvation as Scripture instructs you.
Quote Hebrews 2 King James Version (KJV)
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Quote Hebrews 5 King James Version (KJV)
1For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
For Pierre to read.Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 01 2011,23:12) Mike, My comment is if you believe Jesus is not a human being then you have thrown him out and are attempting to have the Father without the Son. Anyone who reads scripture should be very aware that Jesus being like his brother human beings is important to the message of salvation as Scripture instructs you.
Kerwin,That is pure poppycock. There is no scripture that would require Jesus to STILL be a human being for any reason. The scriptures you showed explain why he AT ONE TIME came as a human being, but say nothing about any requirement for him to still be so. Can not a spiritual creature serve as a go-between for man and God? Angels did it all the time, right?
Plus, if Jesus WAS still a man, then why did Paul say he got his gospel, NOT FROM ANY MAN, but from Jesus Christ?
peace,
mikeQuote (t8 @ Aug. 02 2011,03:22)
In other words, I am waiting for the next technological leap in a forum, rather than adding my own code to this one.
Okay, thanks.Quote (t8 @ Aug. 02 2011,03:22)
Perhaps I could start a topic for a wish list of features which might help with what I choose in the next version.
That's a good idea. Put “Names of who voted and how they voted” as # 1 on that thread, okay?
Plus, I remember SF wanting the “Like” button or something.
Hi:
This is what the scriptures state:
Quote 1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. This is after the resurrection from the dead. He was still a man here:
King James Version (KJV)
Luke 24
33And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
34Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
35And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
36And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
Quote 47The first man is of the earth, earthy; [/b]the second man is the Lord from heaven. [/b] 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
And so, yes, Jesus is still a man in heaven. The difference is that he no longer has a mortal body. He has a spiritual body. Therefore, death has no more dominion over him.
All who are in Christ, will receive a spirtual body at his coming for the church.
The life-giving spirit that he is, is that Word of God that he obeyed without sin even unto death on the cross. It is written in red in your bible. It is through this Word that we have eternal life.
When Paul was speaking in Galatians of not having received the gospel from man, he was speaking of not receiving it from any of the Apostles that preceded him, but he received it directly from Jesus Christ. He was not saying that Jesus Christ was no longer a man.
Love in Christ,
MartyKerwin
Quote My comment is if you believe Jesus is not a human being then you have thrown him out and are attempting to have the Father without the Son. Anyone who reads scripture should be very aware that Jesus being like his brother human beings is important to the message of salvation as Scripture instructs you. what we have to acknowledge is that the Christ as come in the flesh so that all scriptures are accomplished and so that the word of God to open his grace to all men his now at hand for those who wanted,and that Christ was resurrected as the first of many brothers that God will be 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth
but Christ is no longer on earth he is return to heaven where he came from ;Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
and there has a spirit being he is preparing his return and make room for his brothers ;Jn 14:2 In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
this is why Christ needed a women to be born as a man but he needed the power of his father to work it out so that his soul would be in the flesh and blood body that he will in time give up for our sins ,
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
what Paul says here Christ told this to his disciples;Mt 18:4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 23:11 The greatest among you will be your servant.so Christ as shown the example to us all ,of how he humble himself to come and die to do the will of God his father ,
this is also why in revelation it says ;Rev 5:2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”
Rev 5:3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.
Rev 5:4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.
Rev 5:5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
Rev 5:6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.this shows that Christ the lamb of god is the greatest and the supreme over all of creation ,
and so no longer a man ,but more closer to God his father .
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2011,08:21) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 01 2011,23:12) Mike, My comment is if you believe Jesus is not a human being then you have thrown him out and are attempting to have the Father without the Son. Anyone who reads scripture should be very aware that Jesus being like his brother human beings is important to the message of salvation as Scripture instructs you.
Kerwin,That is pure poppycock. There is no scripture that would require Jesus to STILL be a human being for any reason. The scriptures you showed explain why he AT ONE TIME came as a human being, but say nothing about any requirement for him to still be so. Can not a spiritual creature serve as a go-between for man and God? Angels did it all the time, right?
Plus, if Jesus WAS still a man, then why did Paul say he got his gospel, NOT FROM ANY MAN, but from Jesus Christ?
peace,
mike
Mike,You are at the moment simply not thinking in spiritual ways as the ways of man are not the ways of God and thus the teaching of man are not the teachings of God.
So when teaching his students before his crucifiction was Jesus teaching the teachings of a man or the teachings of God.
Did is students therefore receive there teaching from a man or from God who spoke through the human being Jesus?
Does a human being who inherits the kiingdom of heaven become an angel or do they remain a human being?
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