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Mike,
Did John the Baptist go to Heaven when he died?Why do you pick frivolous points to argue over? Is it because you are not actually trying to understand what anyone else says but only want to read what YOU want to read and say what YOU want to say.
Jesus Christ was the ONLY ONE ON EARTH (As was The First Adam) who was totally Holy and Sinless (But the first Adam sinned and fell from grace – which is why I believe that the first Adam will not be one who is redeemed – but that is for another thread)
As the ONLY ONE who was a full son of God in the flesh – as Adam was – he could claim the title of ONLY SON OF GOD according to the flesh…!
But, Mike, continue to thrash… Thrashing questions demand the responder search deeper in scriptures to refine their own knowledge. As such, I thank you for raising such pointless but relevant side issues – you never know, someone else might try those same questions as proof of something or other at some other time and the answer will be ready and waiting…
Mike, SF,
The Scripture I posted: Romans 8:14… Who is a 'Son of God' and how so?SF,
Have you correctly timelined your reading of 'Will be Conformed to the image of the Son'?The verse is referring to the RISEN CHRIST…
However, I see you also ignore that which refutes your illegitimate belief.
Reading on in Romans 8:16, does it not say 'The [Holy] Spirit itself beats witness with our Spirit that we are Children of God…'
SF, if 'we' (Saints, Apostles, Elders, etc) are Children of God, then are they then not also God?
Please, please, please … Say 'Yes'.
If you do then I will understand you!Quote (Istari @ April 12 2011,12:30) SF,
Have you correctly timelined your reading of 'Will be Conformed to the image of the Son'?The verse is referring to the RISEN CHRIST…
However, I see you also ignore that which refutes your illegitimate belief.
Reading on in Romans 8:16, does it not say 'The [Holy] Spirit itself beats witness with our Spirit that we are Children of God…'
SF, if 'we' (Saints, Apostles, Elders, etc) are Children of God, then are they then not also God?
Please, please, please … Say 'Yes'.
If you do then I will understand you!
Ja,
I have no problem discussing with you any topic, but I get easily irritated when i spend my time writing something and than it gets ignored.I made an explaination about Jesus being God, you could at least acknowledge that you read it, and im happy with that.
Quote Have you correctly timelined your reading of 'Will be Conformed to the image of the Son'?
It says Pre-destined, so what timeline are you reffering too?Quote However, I see you also ignore that which refutes your illegitimate belief. Reading on in Romans 8:16, does it not say 'The [Holy] Spirit itself beats witness with our Spirit that we are Children of God…'
What did I ignore? I dont believe that we are the Sons of the Son.
Also consider 1 John 5:
4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
Its a witness that we are Children of God, but becasue through Jesus Christ is that we are.JA, I would never state that Saints, Apostles, Elders, or etc are God because believeing them, does not cause us to be Children of God. Praying to Peter, or accpeting Peter does not make you a child of God, but KNOWING Christ in the other hand does make you a cHild of God, because he and the Father are One.
SF,
I can't figure out what you are – a deceived, a self-deceived, a deceiver, or confused…Everything you have written above is a mishmash of what you said, what I said and lots of stuff that neither of us said… Oh, and stuff you dont realise that you are saying…
I have no desire to debate with you – I have seen your debates with Mikeboll, and quite frankly I think becUse too much time on his hands because much of the nonsense you two debate is, well, quite frankly, nonsense!
I was Hoping that as Jesus is the Son of God – and is therefore God, by your reckoning, then the Children of God must also be God, for as Jesus is the EXACT IMAGE OF THE GOD THAT HE IS THAT SAME GOD, then 'They' whom conform to the EXACT IMAGE of the Son…MUST ALSO BE GOD THE GOD THAT JESUS IS.
SF, is that simple statement not easy enough to understand from your own beliefs…
SF, do you believe that which I just wrote? No? Then you do not beige YOUR OWN BELIEFS.
SF, Time to reconsider what EXACTLY it is that you DO believe!!
Quote (Istari @ April 12 2011,23:50) SF,
I can't figure out what you are – a deceived, a self-deceived, a deceiver, or confused…Everything you have written above is a mishmash of what you said, what I said and lots of stuff that neither of us said… Oh, and stuff you dont realise that you are saying…
I have no desire to debate with you – I have seen your debates with Mikeboll, and quite frankly I think becUse too much time on his hands because much of the nonsense you two debate is, well, quite frankly, nonsense!
I was Hoping that as Jesus is the Son of God – and is therefore God, by your reckoning, then the Children of God must also be God, for as Jesus is the EXACT IMAGE OF THE GOD THAT HE IS THAT SAME GOD, then 'They' whom conform to the EXACT IMAGE of the Son…MUST ALSO BE GOD THE GOD THAT JESUS IS.
SF, is that simple statement not easy enough to understand from your own beliefs…
SF, do you believe that which I just wrote? No? Then you do not beige YOUR OWN BELIEFS.
SF, Time to reconsider what EXACTLY it is that you DO believe!!
Istari,
I was trying to be nice, but if you want to be a jerk about what you dont understand than thats fine.Have you not considered your self as a Deceived, a self-deceived, a deceiver, or confused…….?
Most of your post, i also find to be nonesense with the pathetic excuse to create a category called “sonship”
you create your own pathetic religion to promote your self-righteousness. so continue to vomit your nonesense and feed yourself with it.
You also dont understand that by stating that God and Jesus to be seperate persons, or entities is not what i believe.
So therefore, if they were seperate people, than you wuold have a point, but Im stating they are one and the same God.So what your saying about my beliefs is nonesense and a complete misunderstanding of your own foolishness and imaginations.
I would say to you:
“Why do you pick frivolous points to argue over? Is it because you are not actually trying to understand what anyone else says but only want to read what YOU want to read and say what YOU want to say.“You and Mike are brothers after all.
No, Its time for you to reconsider and discern what I actaully believe instead of trying to TELL ME what I believe.
Duece Mr. colorful Tiles
Hey, SF,
Thank you for you post. It exposed your inner mind and confirmed what I thought of you – and justified my non-debate with you.In fact, from what I read from your posts – you don't actually know WHAT you believe.
You adopted Trinitarianism from your posting in this forum and haven't quite got to grips with its nonsensicallness therefore you need to distance yourself from anything that shows you are incorrect.
I posted you a scripture verse but you ignored to post a different one and then answer to that making claim in such a nonsensical manner it could only come from a juvenile mind (Such as you say you are: you are allowed to be silly! Good on you for working it out of your system while you are young… Oh, how old was Jesus?)
Is Jesus not a Child of God? And you say he IS GOD!
Are the Apostles and Saints not Children of God? Therefore, they too, are God!Untangle that, please!
Quote (Istari @ April 13 2011,00:21) Hey, SF,
Thank you for you post. It exposed your inner mind and confirmed what I thought of you – and justified my non-debate with you.In fact, from what I read from your posts – you don't actually know WHAT you believe.
You adopted Trinitarianism from your posting in this forum and haven't quite got to grips with its nonsensicallness therefore you need to distance yourself from anything that shows you are incorrect.
I posted you a scripture verse but you ignored to post a different one and then answer to that making claim in such a nonsensical manner it could only come from a juvenile mind (Such as you say you are: you are allowed to be silly! Good on you for working it out of your system while you are young… Oh, how old was Jesus?)
Is Jesus not a Child of God? And you say he IS GOD!
Are the Apostles and Saints not Children of God? Therefore, they too, are God!Untangle that, please!
Hey There Just Askin or Mr Istari,
which is it by the way? creating Alias to hide your past?No no no Thank you! =D I hoped that it was rude enough to reach you.
I know exactly what I believe JA, but you saying “that i dont know what i believe” doesnt make it true, unless you can bring up some evidence to back up your claims.Ok Ja, you dont know what you believe, so you created something called Sonships. wow? now does that prove that im correct in that assumption?
Actually you always stated that you have discernment. which you do not. I did not in fact adopted any Trinitarianism from posting on this forum. You are incorrect.
Actually I have opposed the Trinity thought for a long time.You stated:”therefore you need to distance yourself from anything that shows you are incorrect.”
Yet your the one who hasnt refuted any of my claims or personal attacks on your character.
So since you didnt refute anything, I can only assume that you agree.You posted a scripture verse and a point that I did not understand. So i posted another that sounds like that one. So i dont GET your point.
Yes I am very Juvenile, yet you are argueing with a Juvenile and making comments and personal attacks and yet fightign with a child.
Doesnt that make you a very immature adult?
Adults know better than to argue with a child.Jesus is The Son of God,
Is there a scripture that states that Jesus is a Child of God directly?
Can you post a scripture that states that Jesus is a Child of God?How can i untangle the mess that you SAY i believe in, when i dont?
Im teling you that “the son of God” could not and would not mean the same thing as “a child of God”Come on JA, Catch up.
Dont be a double-minded when first your going to say your not going to debate with me, and NOW you are.keep to your word Gandalf
SF,
All you have done in that last post is put the word 'Not' in front of everything you wrote.
It shows you really don't have anything to say.
And both you and Mike are wrong about JA and Istari.
T8 said that he had restored JustAskin but I still couldn't post. I petissioned t8 several times and he said he had unblocked me but yet – no! So I created a new persona. If you know more about LORD OF THE RINGS you would understand more of what I did especially with the 'click her to see…'
You will also then know the link between Jesus being killed by 'The Satanic force of Death' and then coming to life again in a renewed and glorified body… As Gandalf the wizard (Gandalf the grey) was killed by the dark force of the Balrock but was raised again into a renewed body as Gandalf the White… They (Jesus and Gandalf) then appeared to their friends who did not at first recognise them…only afterwards did they realise that it WAS him!Oh, and in case you don't know it, ISTARI, means ANGEL…which is what Gandalf is in the story… So, JRR Tolkien must have believed that Jesus was an Angel!!!
Ha ha ha … Yes SF,
You really are juvenile and therefore I must be even more juvenile to be disputing with you…'You have much to learn, young man!' like courtesy to your elders, then!
You say that Jesus is a Son of God but not a Child of God – now that really IS JUVENILE…
Have Ot your own way then and I will show the adult in me…
Over!
Quote (Istari @ April 13 2011,01:15) SF, All you have done in that last post is put the word 'Not' in front of everything you wrote.
It shows you really don't have anything to say.
And both you and Mike are wrong about JA and Istari.
T8 said that he had restored JustAskin but I still couldn't post. I petissioned t8 several times and he said he had unblocked me but yet – no! So I created a new persona. If you know more about LORD OF THE RINGS you would understand more of what I did especially with the 'click her to see…'
You will also then know the link between Jesus being killed by 'The Satanic force of Death' and then coming to life again in a renewed and glorified body… As Gandalf the wizard (Gandalf the grey) was killed by the dark force of the Balrock but was raised again into a renewed body as Gandalf the White… They (Jesus and Gandalf) then appeared to their friends who did not at first recognise them…only afterwards did they realise that it WAS him!Oh, and in case you don't know it, ISTARI, means ANGEL…which is what Gandalf is in the story… So, JRR Tolkien must have believed that Jesus was an Angel!!!
Ja,
Come on old fool, it was more than that.
It just shows that you cannot get over yourself
Yet your still here with something to prove huh?
I already saw the whole explaination of why you changed your name. but the whole bogus thing about you being a new member was an abosulte deception.and a sad one.
lol so im Juvinile because im expressing my beliefs, but your not because your equating yourself along with Lord of the Rings?
come on dude grow up, be more of an example.
Quote (Istari @ April 13 2011,01:19) Ha ha ha … Yes SF,
You really are juvenile and therefore I must be even more juvenile to be disputing with you…'You have much to learn, young man!' like courtesy to your elders, then!
You say that Jesus is a Son of God but not a Child of God – now that really IS JUVENILE…
Have Ot your own way then and I will show the adult in me…
Over!
HAHAHAHAHAHADude come on?
So you have to be more juvenile than me?
so you agree that your being immature?I didnt say he wasnt, im asking you to prove a direct statement in the bible that says that Jesus is a child of God, or Jesus himself saying that he is a child of God.
lol… Man you are just like mike.
I dont see why ya fight.might as well settle your differences and smell eachothers butts for the dogs you guys are.
=P
Now its over.But don't forget that Jesus is now a spirit being and still an aggelos of his God. So while Jesus once was a human aggelos, or “messenger of God”, he is now a spirit aggelos, or “angel of God”.
Hey Wm and SF,
Are you guys on board with this statement, or do you have a rebuttal?
mike
Hmm as a JW this is a really strong argument for Jesus being the highest angel possible or Michael the Arch. Thanks Mike, The rebuttals are getting punched in the face with your fist of grammar.
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 13 2011,11:23) Hmm as a JW this is a really strong argument for Jesus being the highest angel possible or Michael the Arch. Thanks Mike, The rebuttals are getting punched in the face with your fist of grammar.
thats not actualy the arguement sense Mike believes “angel” only means messenger.Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,09:40) Hey Istari, Why do you suppose “THE Son of God” instead of “a son of God”?
mike
Adopted as spiritual sons vs. natural spiritual son.Mike,
You really do take the biscuit sometimes (did I say 'Some- times'?).
How many times have I outlined to you (And others) the deginitionS of 'Sonship':
Why do you keep asking? Should I even answer?
Ok, one more time (And not for the last time I guess!)“ALL WHO DO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD ARE SONS OF GOD”
1) The Angels in Heaven are sons of God by the Spirit
2) Jesus is the second Adam, the ONLY SON OF GOD IN THE FLESH (The only sinkers MAN)
3) Jesus is the BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD as SPIRITUAL MANSo, also your idea that Jesus is an 'Angelos' is wrong because Jesus is no longer MESSENGING for his God, you know very well that he is sitting in residence as King over his fathers kingdom, hardly a position of a messenger, eh?
And further, when Jesus was raised to that position, what did God his Father say to him: 'You are my Son, Today I have become your father' for unto NONE OF THE ANGELS did he ever say that!
Mike, ask yourself this timeline question:
What was God's original plan for mankind and the earth? Adam was foremost in the plan but failed and Jesus took his place – to not only redeem mankind – but also to COMPLETE THE WORKS OF HIS FATHER…So, whatever the FIRST ADAM was to have done the SECOND ADAM FULFILLED…!Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 13 2011,00:23) Hmm as a JW this is a really strong argument for Jesus being the highest angel possible or Michael the Arch. Thanks Mike, The rebuttals are getting punched in the face with your fist of grammar.
Hi between,I am not a JW, although I agree with them on almost every scriptural point there is. The Michael thing is one of the few exceptions. I believe that Michael was created through Jesus, as were the other heavenly messengers of God.
But thanks for the “atta-boy”.
mike
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