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Gene,
Sir Issac Newton has a point for it is written:
Revelation 17:15Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
It seems that the Sea could also be the Mediterranean Sea as well.
There are many groups today that are trying to bring about a caliphate. ISIL, al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Hamas, to name a few. Where there is a will there is a way. It only takes a strong leader to organise them into one. It is foolish to underestimate what is going on around the Great Sea today.
I haven’t had time to check these out, but these are some references to the great sea that I found on Biblehub.
Numbers 34:6,7
And as for the western border, you shall even have the great sea for a border: this shall be your west border.Joshua 1:4
From the wilderness and this Lebanon even to the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and to the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast.Joshua 9:1
And it came to pass, when all the kings which were on this side Jordan, in the hills, and in the valleys, and in all the coasts of the great sea over against Lebanon, the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite, heard thereof;Joshua 15:12,47
And the west border was to the great sea, and the coast thereof. This is the coast of the children of Judah round about according to their families.Joshua 23:4
Behold, I have divided to you by lot these nations that remain, to be an inheritance for your tribes, from Jordan, with all the nations that I have cut off, even to the great sea westward.Ezekiel 47:10,15,20
And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand on it from Engedi even to Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.Ezekiel 48:28
And by the border of Gad, at the south side southward, the border shall be even from Tamar to the waters of strife in Kadesh, and to the river toward the great sea.Kerwin, if not Islam that ruled the Middle East for 500 years with an antichrist religion and law, conquered the previous empire in like pattern as previous heads of the beast, then what is the empire that is prophesied as the seventh that dies and comes back later as the eighth? Remember that the Antichrist will honor a god of fortresses, a god whom his fathers did not know.
I would be surprised if you could put forward a more worthy candidate than Islam or an Islamic Caliphate complete with a caliph.
Go ahead convince me. I am truly open minded and able to change when truth is presented to me. This is your chance to convert me to your view.
t8, could you please answer the question:
If the Beast is Islam, and many people are Muslim simply because that’s all they know, as they were born into it, and only 1% of Christianity are missionaries to them, how could they fit this picture:
“If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.”
It seems more to be a willingness on the part of the worshipers, not through ignorance, but free will and knowledge.
This theory doesn’t propose that Islam is the beast, but that the Beast will be an Islamic Caliphate ruled by the Mahdi. It is he and/or his cohort who is known as the Islamic Jesus who will implement the mark of the Beast to be put in the right-hand or forehead.
While this probably has not happened yet, it is not hard to imagine a ruler of an Islamic Middle East requiring subjects to wear some kind of mark to identify their allegiance. We have already seen today, ISIL fighters asking people what their allegiance is. If they answer Shia, Christian, Jew, then they are swiftly killed often by beheading if they are Christian.
If the Middle East becomes an Islamic Caliphate ruled by a Caliph, then recognising allegiance would obviously need to be improved beyond asking every stranger they come across. So some kind of system that requires a mark may be implemented. Wearing their mark would be akin to agreeing to their God, prophet, law, and empire. This would be actually publicly denying the Father and the Son which is a major tenet of Islam. Remember that Jesus said:
“Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.”
So what of those who wear the mark of a religion that denies God has a son?
Not all Muslims would be born into it, it would be a choice that each person makes. Remember that Sunni also kill Shias too. You are either for them, to weak to fight them and join them, or you are against them and their principles.
And what would the mark be? Well it would be a name, a symbol or mark, and also a number. Something like this perhaps.
Remember that the antichrist denies the Father and the Son. So what if you chose to wear or have a mark that symbolised that. Then you have chosen to deny the son and thus deny the Father and you do this as a witness before all men. The upside is you will be able to trade and live without persecution and death, but your forfeit your soul for denying the son.
The Suppressed & Hidden History of Islam
This video looks interesting. I am half way through and will finish it later.
@t8 and whomever else has ears to hear,
John 4:23Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Since this is how God is worshiped how is the Beast worshiped?
Is Allah the God that Mohammed proclaimed worshipped?. Adherents bow down before him 5 times a day. Islam denies the Father and the Son and muslims worship the God that sent that prophet who proclaimed an antichrist message. So who is that God? Further, that God has a temple right in the place where the Jewish temple is. In that mosque it is written, “God, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son…”.
1 John 2:22-23
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist–denying the Father and the Son.
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.Revelation 13:4
People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?“To all……we need to be careful because assumptions can get us into trouble. If we are going to talk about the beast that came up out of the sea
There is reference to the sea which could mean out of the people. But there is also reference to the Great Sea which is not the people.
Numbers 34:6,7
And as for the western border, you shall even have the great sea for a border: this shall be your west border.Joshua 1:4
From the wilderness and this Lebanon even to the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and to the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast.Joshua 9:1
And it came to pass, when all the kings which were on this side Jordan, in the hills, and in the valleys, and in all the coasts of the great sea over against Lebanon, the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite, heard thereof;Joshua 15:12,47
And the west border was to the great sea, and the coast thereof. This is the coast of the children of Judah round about according to their families.Joshua 23:4
Behold, I have divided to you by lot these nations that remain, to be an inheritance for your tribes, from Jordan, with all the nations that I have cut off, even to the great sea westward.Ezekiel 47:10,15,20
And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand on it from Engedi even to Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.Ezekiel 48:28
And by the border of Gad, at the south side southward, the border shall be even from Tamar to the waters of strife in Kadesh, and to the river toward the great sea.This theory doesn’t propose that Islam is the beast, but that the Beast will be an Islamic Caliphate ruled by the Mahdi. It is he and/or his cohort who is known as the Islamic Jesus who will implement the mark of the Beast to be put in the right-hand or forehead.
While this probably has not happened yet, it is not hard to imagine a ruler of an Islamic Middle East requiring subjects to wear some kind of mark to identify their allegiance. We have already seen today, ISIL fighters asking people what their allegiance is. If they answer Shia, Christian, Jew, then they are swiftly killed often by beheading if they are Christian.
If the Middle East becomes an Islamic Caliphate ruled by a Caliph, then recognising allegiance would obviously need to be improved beyond asking every stranger they come across. So some kind of system that requires a mark may be implemented. Wearing their mark would be akin to agreeing to their God, prophet, law, and empire. This would be actually publicly denying the Father and the Son which is a major tenet of Islam. Remember that Jesus said:
“Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.”
Well, it’s a possibility to be aware of. Will be interesting if it develops.
Remember that the antichrist denies the Father and the Son. So what if you chose to wear or have a mark that symbolised that. Then you have chosen to deny the son and thus deny the Father and you do this as a witness before all men. The upside is you will be able to trade and live without persecution and death, but your forfeit your soul for denying the son.
It still seems to be done in ignorance though, as most Muslims have not been taught truth, as only 1% of Christianity are missionaries in Muslim countries. But, who knows, as there’s a phenomena of dreams and visions there (of Jesus).
First off, congratulations on being open minded. It may or may not turn out to be true, but to be open minded to the possibility tells me that you are looking for the signs and you understand that there is the possibility because you have weighed up the evidence. Well done. I wish more people here were open minded. Some here just flatly refuse to consider the theory because it is relatively new or they are invested into another theory and do not want to consider the possibility that their theory could be wrong.
It still seems to be done in ignorance though
How is it different from any other theory. Surely the Antichrist is not going to turn up and say, “hi Satan sent me”. No he would probably try to pass himself of as being sent by God.
But take a close look at the criteria for receiving the wrath of God. It is not easy to recieve it.
Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice,
“If anyone worships the beast and his image,
and
receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
I wouldn’t classify worshipping the Beast and receiving his mark as completely ignorant. For a start we know that Believers are beheaded and many suffer under the reign of the Antichrist. But to worship him and his system or kingdom means to agree to all the evil deeds that are obviously done out in the open. I think only a consciously evil person could worship a Beast who does such things. Many Muslims today are against ISIL for example. So it stands to reason that not all would worship the Beast. Yes there are children under their control, but in God’s eyes, they are not responsible for their predicament until they reach a certain age. Once the age of being totally responsible for your actions is reached, then they could decide to leave and not participate.
No excuses because everyone has a conscience.
First off, congratulations on being open minded. It may or may not turn out to be true, but to be open minded to the possibility tells me that you are looking for the signs and you understand that there is the possibility because you have weighed up the evidence. Well done. I wish more people here were open minded. Some here just flatly refuse to consider the theory because it is relatively new or they are invested into another theory and do not want to consider the possibility that their theory could be wrong.
I think we should be open minded regards the deceiver/ beast.
I know Muslims expect the Mahdi and Jesus to come, but their idea of Jesus’ return appears faulty, and they are vulnerable to deception. Knowledge is power, and if the motive is right (i.e., helping them) then our mind should be open to the possibility; and also to the possibility that “deceiver of the whole world” could be just the Middle East.
Surely the Antichrist is not going to turn up and say, “hi Satan sent me”. No he would probably try to pass himself of as being sent by God.
Or, could deceive people to believe he is Christ returned?
I wouldn’t classify worshipping the Beast and receiving his mark as completely ignorant. For a start we know that Believers are beheaded and many suffer under the reign of the Antichrist. But to worship him and his system or kingdom means to agree to all the evil deeds that are obviously done out in the open. I think only a consciously evil person could worship a Beast who does such things. Many Muslims today are against ISIL for example. So it stands to reason that not all would worship the Beast. Yes there are children under their control, but in God’s eyes, they are not responsible for their predicament until they reach a certain age. Once the age of being totally responsible for your actions is reached, then they could decide to leave and not participate.
True.
It seems that the Mahdi and Islamic Jesus match the biblical antichrist and false prophet regarding the prophecies in both the Bible and Quran/Hadith. Interestingly, both the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of Islam fight a person called the Antichrist. You have to wonder if the Islamic Antichrist is the true Christ of the Bible though. Seems that these books say similar things, but have an opposite view on who the good and bad are. Not surprising considering that the one book says that God has a son, while the other openly denies this, thus fulfilling the definition of antichrist.
@t8,
Islam does not have an opposite view of morality than Scripture. Islam is more Old Testament and the extremists are more like the Jewish Zealots. It is possible Paul was a Zealot before his conversion even though he was also a Pharisee.
Within Islam there is a debate if the Law should be based on the traditions of their father verses their Scriptures.
I know that Iran follows Old Testament Laws to put homosexuals to death. I believe they do others.
From what I read of Muhammad he seems to be more of a political person adopting his “prophecies” to political realities. Some of his students are better at that than others. The extremists are not.
There error is the same as most heretics in that those who attempt to seek righteousness to do so by human effort and not by the godly effort that comes by faith in Jesus Christ.
It seems that the Mahdi and Islamic Jesus match the biblical antichrist and false prophet regarding the prophecies in both the Bible and Quran/Hadith. Interestingly, both the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of Islam fight a person called the Antichrist. You have to wonder if the Islamic Antichrist is the true Christ of the Bible though. Seems that these books say similar things, but have an opposite view on who the good and bad are. Not surprising considering that the one book says that God has a son, while the other openly denies this, thus fulfilling the definition of antichrist.
Thanks, I’ll look into that!
I don’t believe the Islamic idea of antichrist will turn out to be the true Christ. Jesus wont set foot on this planet (He already has). Amillenialism is the only safe truth imo.
Muslims believe Jesus will return to earth, so they are likely to be deceived by a false return. Did you know America has the technology to create a holographic image in the sky or on earth as a means of confusing an enemy?
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