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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 06 2008,08:53) Hi K77,
Did Elisha and Peter raise the dead?
If they did does that prove they are God too?
Yes they did No they were not God.
They were told to do such by Jesus and through the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the authority in Jesus our Lord and Savior they did.So Jesus is our Savior then?
Isaiah 43:11
11 I, even I, am the LORD,
and apart from me there is no savior(Apart from God Himself there is NO savior)
No pulling rabbits out of the hat. I have previouse posts with actual scriptures that will justify this why I believe what I do both OT and NT.
Quote (Keeper77 @ Mar. 06 2008,04:39) Isaiah 43:10 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
How is this twisted?
Be Blessed
LORD (YHWH) is not to be confused with Lord (kurios).Translations translate YHWH as LORD. That creates confusion with the word Lord in Greek. They are not related words.
Hi K77,
Was told to by Jesus?2 Kings 4
32And when Elisha was come into the house, behold, the child was dead, and laid upon his bed.33He went in therefore, and shut the door upon them twain, and prayed unto the LORD.
34And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm.
35Then he returned, and walked in the house to and fro; and went up, and stretched himself upon him: and the child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes.
36And he called Gehazi, and said, Call this Shunammite. So he called her. And when she was come in unto him, he said, Take up thy son.
37Then she went in, and fell at his feet, and bowed herself to the ground, and took up her son, and went out.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 06 2008,09:11) Quote (theodorej @ Mar. 06 2008,09:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 06 2008,08:47) Hi K77,
Would you limit God in His appointments?
Would you say he cannot work outside your understanding?
Jesus Christ does not ever work in his own powers but in that of his God.
Greetings…..God is….IAM that IAM…to mention just a few declarations by the Eternal One !!
Speaking to the trinity.( nothwithstanding my Catholic School
indoctrination ) Let us for the sake of discussion see if we could agree on this premise…God Is..The Word ( JESUS) is the means by which The Eternal ONE manifests his will (Plan )
and the Spirit is the Essense of the power of GOD….
Hi TJ,
God manifests fully in Christ and His servants by His Spirit.
To insult or lie to the Spirit is to insult or lie to God
Nick….I fail to see the insult attached to the premise that God and the Word are infact God and the spirit is the essense
of their power…
If you do the math that adds up to God The Father and the Son….
The spirit is the essense of their power….
How do get a Trinity from that…?
Iam by no means a proponent of trinity doctrine…Quote (Keeper77 @ Mar. 06 2008,09:55) So Jesus is our Savior then? Isaiah 43:11
11 I, even I, am the LORD,
and apart from me there is no savior(Apart from God Himself there is NO savior)
No pulling rabbits out of the hat. I have previouse posts with actual scriptures that will justify this why I believe what I do both OT and NT.
Moses was a saviour too.But it is God who is the saviour. Jesus and Moses were the vessels for the salvation of God.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.Luke 22:42
“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”See, it was God's will that Jesus took that cup.
Actually I just noticed that this discussion is about the belief in the Trinity essential for salvation or not.
There is another discussion called “Trinity” that covers what many are posting here now.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 06 2008,10:09) Quote (Keeper77 @ Mar. 06 2008,09:55) So Jesus is our Savior then? Isaiah 43:11
11 I, even I, am the LORD,
and apart from me there is no savior(Apart from God Himself there is NO savior)
No pulling rabbits out of the hat. I have previouse posts with actual scriptures that will justify this why I believe what I do both OT and NT.
Moses was a saviour too.But it is God who is the saviour. Jesus and Moses were the vessels for the salvation of God.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.Luke 22:42
“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”See, it was God's will that Jesus took that cup.
Greetings……..I am curious Who did he save ?To Keeper77.
Sorry but your profile was zapped by the spam filters.
Please re-register and I will make sure that you are not zapped again.Apologies.
Quote (Guest @ Mar. 06 2008,08:27) “I am and the great I am who is the Father” Notice how you stated “I am” twice. To me that is the same meaning they are both “I am” thus the same person.
That is the Father. He is the Great I Am. Looks like Nick is haveing a dialog with you so I will bow out and let Him discuss this with you, I dont think He would bow out to me and that is alright.Peace and Love Mrs.
Dear “Guest”,
I can understand your frustration and as one that had been accepting of the trinity doctrine in the past, I will attempt to give you my understanding on this verse.
Isaiah 43:11
11 I, even I, am the LORD,
and apart from me there is no saviorIf the Most High God did not forordain and accept Jesus' sacrifice then neither of them would be credited with the title as “Savior”. There was no other but the Most High God (the Father) that could accept that sacrifice of Jesus and claim that it was sufficient. If Jesus went to the cross, no matter how sincerely, if it was outside of the Father's will, it wouldn't save us. By the way, the Most High God (the Father) did not have to bother with providing a plan to save us but I am ever thankful that He did and that He found Jesus' obedient life and death sufficient to fulfill His (the Father's) requirements.
John 3:16-18
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
NASUPhil 2:7-11
7b He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
NASUI hope that helps.
Hi Nick,
You asked me a question a few pages back. Sorry for the delay but life around my home often takes me away from these forums. I know that makes a dialogue difficult to follow. Anyway, here is your good question:Jesus is never called OUR God.
Are all called THEOS our God?Here is my reply:
Theos is used of whatever can in any respect be likened to God, or resembles him in any way:
John 10:34
34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ' I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
NASU
(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright  2000 by Biblesoft)My point is to show you that Jesus is called God (Theos) and I think that we can agree on that. What we don't seem to agree on is who or what is He God of. He is the head of the church as we see in this verse:
Col 1:18
18 He is also head of the body, the church;
NASU
The church sees Christ as their head, their leader, their God in a sense. And being their “God” the church follows His teachings. It seems to me that my God's (Christ's) main foundational teaching is that He is the Son of God, His Father who is His and our Most High God (the Father).
Matt 16:15-19
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 “I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon thisrock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
NASUHi Nick,
Yes, he sure can and so can his servants.
2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as anangel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
NASUWell, in plain old Arkansas English…or…as we say in the “Country”.
It is very well known that any “High Paid” preacher can convince you of just about anything. (Thats their job)
…And, it is quite acceptable to say that most of them will tell you that your salvation relies on how strongly you believe what they tell you.Which is to say…
In a Trinitarians eyes…yes you need to Believe in the Trinity to be saved.
However, Trinitarians are more “Lax” than the Apostolic are. Apostolic believe they are the only people going to heaven…sometimes in most cases they think the church they go to is the only people going to heaven it seems.
Most trinitarians that I've known will tell you that they believe people that don't go to their church or there doctrine even …are probably still going to heaven.
Its quite a shame really. To see what we have become since Jesus left us.
Most of these churches are more concerned about weather or not you dress like them, wear your hair like them, smell like them, give every spare dime you have to the church. Or what have you. Rather than how well you know Jesus Christ and GOD the Father.
I've even seen some churches “Ban” people from coming to their church.
How do you “Ban” someone from hearing GODs word? Or from fellowshipping together?
Its all of the flesh and for the benefit of the flesh.
PRIDE seems to have a huge stench in our lives these days.
Pharisees is what keeps running through my mind.
This is all exactly how the pharisees acted.
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