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Hi GM,
WATER OR OF THE FLESH?
What gives?
Water is not flesh.
You claim it is parallelism but the words are not equivalent.What is that you want to say? I have given my opinion that Jesus was talking about two literal births of a person who can enter into kingdom of God, as also you quote “to born again”. He was not talking about any Baptisms here, my friend.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2008,18:23) Perhaps those who have a caesarean do not qualify?
Nick, you can't be serious? A baby in the womb is in the “water”. You are a medical professional – yes?
It's just another way to view it. Symbolism.
Hi not3,
If you think the waters of childbirth have much similarity to pure water you are confused.
If we must be born of those waters then yeehaa we all are.
Except if you have a caesarean.Please can you show me parallel verses that show this demand of God. Spare me!!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2008,16:35) Hi GM,
Read the scriptures for yourself.
We are one in Spirit and united by submission to the demand of God to be reborn of water.
This is your post that started the whole thing.Where are we to be reborn of water?
You say, “Spare me!!” What? You're getting sassy now?
I love it.Anyway, explain what you meant about being reborn of water. Perhaps we have a misunderstanding here.
Thanks,
MandyQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 26 2008,16:50) Hi not3,
Jn 1.5
John 1:5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
Nick,
This explains why we are to be reborn of water?1 John 5 – gotcha!
But still, it's subjective to interpretation. It is not clear that we are to be baptized by this ref to “water” and blood…..
1 John 5:7 I have marked, that it was added. And that makes sense. The trinitarians like to use this verse also for their prove.
IreneHi not3,
Sorry
jn 3.5
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.Hi GM,
Friend?
In context
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Jesus had 3 witnesses.
1Jn5
5Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who (K)believes that Jesus is the Son of God?6This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
7For there are three that testify:
8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
How many is enough for your doctrine?
So where is the phrase “born again of water” in all those verses you quoted?
It talks about born of water and of Spirit. Born of flesh is flesh and born of Spirit is spirit. So there are two literal births my friend ; one is natural birth as flesh and other is spiritual birth as Spirit not any baptisms. The verse you quoted from 1 Jn 5 is talking about Jesus' literal birth as human which the people of Antichrist deny that he came as flesh and blood. If you understand Mandy's post clearly you don't go for all this ambigous thinking.
Take care
AdamHi GM,
Born of flesh is flesh.
No water mentioned there.
No baptisms mentioned at all?
How can one be reborn from above without the Spirit baptism?Again no Baptisms, Jesus was talking about a person who can enter into God's kingdom by what process. First he should take birth as flesh and then he should be born again as spirit. You recollect Paul's words in 1 Cori 15 “flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God” there he was also telling that the “natural body is first which will be followed by a spiritual (body)” to enter into kingdom of God. No Baptisms here. One can be born of Spirit literally only when he is resurrected of the Spirit of God on the Last day. I don't see any ambiguity here.
AdamHi GM,
TAKE BIRTH AS FLESH?
BORN AGAIN AS SPIRIT?Sounds like guesswork to me.
Even Jesus has now a body and so will we.We never become spirits.
Are you not born of Spirit now?
You should be.
If you do not now have the Spirit you are none of his[Rom8]
That Spirit will raise you if you are, giving eternal life to your mortal bodies.[Rom 6,8]Hi GM,
If you are not yet born of the Spirit then you are not yet a son of God.
None of the words of 1 Jn would yet apply to you.
Seek this blessing from your loving Father.
Lk11.Quote (gollamudi @ June 26 2008,19:17) Again no Baptisms, Jesus was talking about a person who can enter into God's kingdom by what process. First he should take birth as flesh and then he should be born again as spirit. You recollect Paul's words in 1 Cori 15 “flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God” there he was also telling that the “natural body is first which will be followed by a spiritual (body)” to enter into kingdom of God. No Baptisms here. One can be born of Spirit literally only when he is resurrected of the Spirit of God on the Last day. I don't see any ambiguity here.
Adam
Hi GM,
Who are you telling to take flesh?
Does that person ever have any choice?
If we all did would that not make us preexistent beings??Hi Nick,
So many quotes at a time. Yes unless a soul takes birth as flesh there is no question of all these arguements here. yes I am born of Spirit of God internally but I have not yet left my flesh body (natural body) and taken the spiritual, then only it is called as born of spirit literally. How can you ignore such facts it happens only when I am resurrected to enter literally into God's kingdom. Do you believe God's kingdom has come literally now on the earth. If so why you are praying for that to happen on earth as it is in heaven. Is Jesus sitting on the throne of David in God's kingdom now on earth? Why are you so much ignorant of these simple truths. You want to question people with your preconceived assumptions. No.. No.. that is wrong my friend.
Please take care
Adam
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