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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2006,23:42) Hi H,
How does a man know when his sin is forgiven?
Once again.
Is it by feelings?Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ July 07 2006,18:40) Water baptism is symbolism.
Does it say that in scripture or is that a conclusion you have come to?I know this: “Water baptism is obedience”, not an optional extra if you feel like it.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ July 06 2006,23:44) Dear Woutlaw, 3 Baptisms,
Blood
Water
Holy Spirit
Hi H,
Correct.
But not quite accurate as the sprinkling is never called baptism.
Now which of these is less important?
Which is an optional extra?I listed the scriptures before t8 to the scriptures that pertain to the baptism of blood. What you have to do is take the time and do the study yourself. We have be debating this issue for how long. I recommend now that all of you do this. Sit and write everything that pertains to baptism and salvation and blood on paper and start comparing. It will take time, but you will see that salvation is the baptism into Christ through his blood by calling on the name of Jesus and the water baptism is being baptized into Christ in the name of Jesus and the being baptized in the Holy Spirit, one is baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
I do not know what else to say. I have tried with you. Unless you do this yourselves and see with your own eyes, your eyes will not be opened.
If your understanding does not come at this time, God willing it will come in the future. It is possible the Lord has his own time for your understanding. He has used me to pave the way. His will be done. What matters is that we love one another in the all brotherly love.
We will spread the gospel and when one is saved, we will urge that they be baptized as soon as possible with water the the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
One thing I would like to note though. You continually stress obedience. Did not Christ come because man was incapable of being obedient? Just one last thought.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2006,23:50) Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ July 06 2006,23:44) Dear Woutlaw, 3 Baptisms,
Blood
Water
Holy Spirit
Hi H,
Correct.
But not quite accurate as the sprinkling is never called baptism.
Now which of these is less important?
Which is an optional extra?
Hi H,
Before you go on your mission can you judge this matter for us?
Or perhaps we should not denigrate what God has commanded?Thanks.
To heiscomingintheclouds,
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ July 07 2006,18:38) It doesn't save you though t8.
Show where water baptism saves you.
I thought we setted this already.
Constantine was water baptised on his death bed in case there was a judgement. He saved it to last so he wouldn't be judged for sin before his baptism. If water baptism saved us, then we could all live a life time of sin and then get baptised in water at the end of our life. Still a risky proposition, but could be worth it to those that love sin.I have said that we are to believe, repent, and then be baptised. Simple.
Why do we need to go beyond that and create divisions?
From what I can see heiscomingintheclouds, you have failed the following advice admirably:
Ephesians 4:3
Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.Like I said before, Christians have historically divided over the variables while denying the absolutes.
We both agree that we should be baptised in water. So why argue against that? We are told to be baptised and we will recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit. Are we to ignore that because we know better?
I haven't preached “no baptism, no salvation”. I have simply pointed out that we should believe, repent, and be baptised. If you argue against that, then there is not much more I can do to foster unity between us. I will not bend on the truth for the sake of a compromised unity.
Unity in the truth is the only real unity of the brethren.
Then there is the matter of telling us that we must believe the KJV is the only true text. That is another cause for dis-unity.
Is it not the carnal man who divides over trivial issues. Are we not to be wary of people who say “Do not touch, do not taste”.
Children are the greatest in the Kingdom because they innocently accept and obey their authority more than adults who find reasons to not obey.
Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
1 Peter 3:21 This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you-not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
Colossians 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
1 Cor. 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
When a man is born again, he is baptized into the body of Christ. That is why in Eph. 4:5 it states one baptism.
Hi H,
The unteachable spirit cannot receive from other, even from scripture, but will continue to teach what it “knows” despite all the help of others.Are we to repent? What is repentance?
I say I am going to repent of my sins and then I follow up on that.
We are baptised into Christ. I obey that and Christ follows up with our obedience and perfects us through his works.
I am not saying that we do it all ourselves. But we do have to do our bit. Otherwise if it was all Christ, then we wouldn't need to be obedient would we.
Christ asks us to be obedient. That is all. He then does his bit, which saves and perfects us.
But if we are not obedient, then we risk losing or not even gaining the gift of salvation.
Dear t8,
I have tried to close the topic several times. I would that you all understand first, but unless one goes and writes all things that pertains to salvation and baptism and the blood of Christ on paper, then compare word for word, the topic should be closed. I have done what I could do and like you, I agree that it is important to be baptized.
One thing that is interesting and I don't know if you know it or not is the catholic church changed the way the early church baptized. The early church when practicing water baptism baptized in the name of Jesus and the catholic church changed it to baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit which is unscriptural. They still practice this today.
heiscomingintheclouds, “if I said we do not need to baptised in water, it is only a symbol”, would that close the topic for you?
It is Christ who is in us that makes us obedient to God. It is nothing that we do. To think it is us is the lie of the devil. We cannot be obedient to God. It is only our faith in Jesus that we have hope. The more faith we have in Jesus, the more he lives in us and the less self will is in us. The less self will in us, the more obedient we become, but not of ourselves, it is he who is in us.
Ephesians 3:17
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,Hi H,
But what you teach is of yourself. You are standing on your own interpretations and experiences and then weep that others will not accept them at face value. What gives?No t8, because we do need water baptism. To say that one should not have it is to make God's word noneffect. It does not say do not get baptized. It says to get baptized. But it does not say baptism saves you if you do not get it. Even though it is symbolic, the lord said to do it. Just as he said at the last supper, do this in rememberance of me. Should we do this since he said to or just ignore it. If the Lord said do it, then we do it. The thing is, why would anyone who recieves the great gift of salvation not want to be obedient? If one is truely saved, Christ is in his heart and the man will want to please God the Father, for that is the will of the Son, who is now in the heart of the man.
Nick, you all say it is my interpretation. All I ask is that you and everyone should prove for yourselves all things and you should, for you should take the word of no man.
Write everything down on paper that pertains to salvation, baptism, and blood using just the NT. Then compare word for word. Start putting them into groupings. It is the best way. I would rather you see with your own eyes. This study will take some time. It can't be done in a day or a week. You must take your time and go over it many times. The Lord will help you and I will help you if you need me. I am not here to hamper the faith, I am here to help the faith. I love you brothers. I enjoy this site so much and all of you. The Lord led me here and it is such a blessing. So many groups that I have come across are so corrupt. This group by leaps and bounds is learned and is growing in the faith.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ July 07 2006,01:25) It is Christ who is in us that makes us obedient to God. It is nothing that we do. To think it is us is the lie of the devil. We cannot be obedient to God. It is only our faith in Jesus that we have hope. The more faith we have in Jesus, the more he lives in us and the less self will is in us. The less self will in us, the more obedient we become, but not of ourselves, it is he who is in us. Ephesians 3:17
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Amen!
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